Flashing rear light enhances driver perception of cyclist ahead

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122686977#Comment_122686977

I'm inclined the same way… My set up if I'm commuting solo is; good light set to solid beam on seat post, one cheaper flashing on drivetrain seatstay and one back up cheap & chearful light backup on non-drivetrain side. Logic being - solid beam on good light is for visibility from distance, low flash setting on seatstay is for reminder/ warning to drivers closer in distance. But if I had to have one, it would be solid beam.

Am I right in saying that flash setting lights are banned in Germany? I presume there's a scientific/ safety reason behind it?

I've said it loads of times but I wish there was a good universal standard/ guide to lights here. The options are just crazy, big brand and expensive doesn't necessarily equal quality. Unless you're 'sciency' you just get completely bamboozled by the options out there.

I don't obsess over the lights in my car - the lights are the lights, I know they'll do the job, and all I need to do is replace the buld and get them re-aligned every now and then. I'd love if it was that simple with bikes. Would deflate a lot of the hi-viz guff too.

magicbastarder

IIRC it used to be the case in ireland that flashing lights were banned on all vehicles except emergency services vehicles. they changed the law here to allow it on bikes.

so if they're banned in germany, it may be a similar situation, in that they didn't set out to specifically ban them on bikes; if that is the case, there would have been no scientific/safety investigation first.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692593#Comment_122692593

Here's a bit of info I found… a bit more that just the flashing element of lights, seems to include the type of beam too.

StVZO bike lights: everything you need to know | BikeRadar

Mefistofelino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692593#Comment_122692593

I think it was the case that flashing lights were not permitted as the only source of (rear) illumination. Amber flashing lights have been used as supplementary warning on vehicles for decades.

07Lapierre

I set my rear light to flashing day or night. I set my front like to flashing when in daylight and static when it’s dark.

I’ve never understood the two rear lights (1 set to flashing and 1 static) by all means carry a backup set of lights , but if a driver is looking they will see a red flashing light…if they are not looking they won’t see 20 lights, ( if they are flashing or static)

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122693718#Comment_122693718

In urban traffic I think a different setting does provide an additional ability to catch the eye of an inattentive driver in a sea of continuous solid beam red lights. Just my personal instinct… a bit of the "what's the harm" logic… A bit like the extra brake lights at the top of rear windows on cars now. Maybe they'll see it that 1/1,000 time that their brain doesn't immediately register the solid beam/ bumper brake lights?

It's not something I'm hung up on, but the fear of a dead battery/ faulty rear light does spook me out on solo commutes from town out the N11 to the sticks.

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692963#Comment_122692963

Yeah, the dynamo front light on the family bakfiets is StVZO-compliant, and so is the Cateye front light that I use on the other two bikes I use. It's a nicely shaped beam with a top cut-off, so you can mount the light horizontally without dazzling anyone and so it doesn't waste energy illuminating the tree tops, as described by BikeRadar.

I'll probably keep getting StVZO-compliant front lights.

tomasrojo

Yes, I think it was just that the 1963 legislation notion of "lit" implicitly didn't include the notion of turning on and off. They updated the law in 2009 to say

In this article, ‘lit’ means the emission of a continuous light or a light that flashes not less than 60 times in each minute.

EDIT: Now I check it, this part under the lighting regulations needed to be changed too to allow flashing lights:

 No lamp (other than direction indicators) fitted to a vehicle shall show or be constructed or adapted so as to be capable of showing a flashing light unless such light is invisible to persons outside the vehicle.

So I assume it actually wasn't technically allowed to have flashing lights until 2009, even as auxiliary lights.

fiacha

99% of my riding is in daylight now, but I still have flashing (strobing-ish) lights front and rear. I find the irregular pattern stands out more (to my eyes!) than a standard on/off flash. They are not overly bright, but I still angle them down to avoid dazzling people. Some of the bike lights out there now are way too bright, even in daylight. I find them distracting.

I have recently noticed a few bikes with long orange reflective stickers on the seat stays. With a flashing light above them on the seatpost, they stood out very well. To me they looked just as effective as a solid light.

I know that hi-viz is a controversial subject here, but I've always thought that passive reflective ankle straps / cuffs are a really good addition. Any time I've seen someone using them, the movement immediately screams "cyclist".

youtheman

Flashing rear lights are great during daylight hours. Not many clubs cycle in groups at night, but if you do, then flashing rear lights will drive you bonkers !.

65535

I'd prefer if the firstly just had lights of any kind which a lot do not and dress in black, and further would prefer if it did not flash.

"Photosensitive epilepsy is when seizures are triggered by flashing lights or contrasting light and dark patterns. Photosensitive epilepsy is not common but it may be diagnosed when you have an EEG test. Flashing or patterned effects can make people with or without epilepsy feel disorientated, uncomfortable or unwell."

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694172#Comment_122694172

People with photosensitive epilepsy are affected by lights that have different flash or flicker rates from as low as 3 to as high as 60 per second. Lights that flash or flicker between 16 and 25 times a second are the most likely to trigger seizures.

Some lights, such as bicycle lights (red and white), are covered by UK law, which says that these lights must not flash at less than one or more than 4 flashes a second. Provided the lights comply with the law, they are unlikely to cause a problem.

From epilepsy.org

https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/seizure-triggers/photosensitive-epilepsy#:~:text=Lights%20that%20flash%20or%20flicker,than%204%20flashes%20a%20second.

I'm assuming the lights that people use in the UK are similar or the same as lights that people use here, so it would not seem to be an issue

ARX

I did the Dunwich Dynamo once. Out in rural Essex where there was no street lighting (or moonlight) and people in front of me had strobing rear lights on, it was a pain - I ended up having to pass a lot of people because of their lights.

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694135#Comment_122694135

Funnily enough, one of the takeaway points of the Australian hi-viz study I mentioned at the top was that reflective ankle material was more effective than material on the torso.

Paddigol

Yeah, to echo what a couple of posters above have mentioned… flashing rear lights are a real issue on group spins. Even on commutes in urban areas I'll have my flash on the lowest setting. I do find them migraine-inducing on the high setting. There really isn't a need for them at that intensity IMO. While the powerful front lights are superb on dark nights on quiet, unlit rural roads, I've no interest in blinding oncoming drivers/ cyclists/ walkers either. If I do have them on, I'll dip them to low setting when I can see someone approaching. They do provide excellent full-road visibility though

What most of these posts come back to is the lack of properly researched guidelines for all types of cyclists, and accepted, science-based standards. Just go onto any cycling website (not even talking Amazon here) and you'll be bamboozled by the options.

I'm half tempted by the Garmin rear light/ camera option, but not sure how good the actual light is, which would be the main priority. Considering how much money is spent on cycling globally I'm surprised at the lack of options for this kind of set up.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694213#Comment_122694213

I'm curious as to whether someone whose epilepsy would be triggered by a cyclist's light would also be triggered by an emergency services flashing light or highway maintenance vehicle, etc.?

Jimbo789

they are illegal in Germany

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694494#Comment_122694494

I'd say they are both equally likely to trigger it (or equally unlikely).

fiacha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694335#Comment_122694335

I'm slow and solo, so there's rarely anyone stuck behind me for long :D

Is it also an issue during daytime or just low light / night ?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694162#Comment_122694162

You've just revealed how to get the perennial drafters to take a turn at the front!

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122693976#Comment_122693976

OK but a flashing red "in a sea of continuous solid beam red" I get what your saying but in my view an inattentive driver is inattentive regardless of what lights are around them?

I do find a flashing front light is handy when filtering between lines of traffic as in my experience, drivers move over when they see it in their rear view mirror. I suspect they are afraid i'm going to damage their passenger door mirror as i pass!

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694929#Comment_122694929

Are you not contradicting yourself there? The whole point of a flashing light is to stir an inattentive brain into attention. I agree with paddigol, in a sea of static lights a flashing one gains attention.

Just opened the back door there, the neighbour has a set of lights along their fence, didn't even register with me until they started flashing from static. They immediately annoyed my brain.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122695032#Comment_122695032

Your right i'm contradicting myself! I might try filtering through traffic with a static front light and see if i get a different reaction from drivers. watch this space!

TheSunIsShining

It's funny how 75% of the cyclists out there have neither a fixed light nor a flashing light.

I'd be fully supportive of a campaign that says as of Dec 1st any cyclist who does not have adequate lighting will be liable to have their bike seized. It is absolutely insane that people are doing it - the danger they are putting themselves in with no lights, black jeans and black coat justifies having their bike taken as far as I am concerned - and it is also incredibly unfair on other road users, particularly drivers who simply cannot see them but who will be held liable if something happens.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122695113#Comment_122695113

Where did you get your stats from?

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122695113#Comment_122695113

99% of the cyclists i see on a daily basis have lights, wear hi-viz and helmets.

tomasrojo

On my regular commute routes in Dublin, most people cycling have some sort of lighting system, I think. Though probably not a majority of people going to secondary school.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122695248#Comment_122695248

Perhaps Dublin is better because that simply isn't the case here. And I don't understand why any cyclist wouldn't have lights by the way - I cycle occasionally myself and I'm more than conscious that if a car hits me when I'm on a bike, there is only going to be one winner and one loser.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122695275#Comment_122695275

Again, where did you get the statistic that 75% of cyclists don't use lights?

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122695275#Comment_122695275

where's Here?