Lunch hour

Skerries Steve

Had a contractor in for ten days with a digger and tractor and dumper, was more than happy with the job. Lads came in for the dinner each day and when it came to the bill charged for the dinner hour when the machines were idle would let it slide if it was a day or 2 but feel it's a bit much when well over €1000 over the course of the ten days. First time this happened usual contractor always knocks off the lunch hour if at slurry etc.

Would appreciate to hear if this is the norm.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058371344/lunch-hour

Digger man I use here would never charge for the break time. If I was at hourly rate work myself I never would either. I’d see it as a bit cheeky, especially when you were supplying the dinner too. Majority of places we’d be in nowadays it’s bring your own or go to a local shop, very rare to be brought into a house any more.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058371344/lunch-hour

Definitely not the norm. A bit disrespectful if anything.

Siamsa Sessions

You don't want to fall out with anyone but that seems to be a bit sharp alright.

You could say, "Sure that's grand so but knock off the price of the lads' dinner everyday."

Would a tenner a man cover the raw ingredients and your time to prep it and serve it up to them?

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668707#Comment_122668707

I don’t think it’s the price of the dinner is the problem but the fact the op was being charged full rate for the machinery for the hour the lads were sitting eating the dinner. For a digger, tractor and dumper you’d be talking €100 per hour so it’s a bit cheeky to still be charging that for the hour they were eating every day with the machinery all parked up.

Sonic the Shaghog

Haven't had lads in while but Jesus getting charged a dinner hour while they were walloping food you prepared as well I'd be raging.

893bet

Seem like a communication issue. I would go back with the hours you logged them as working and see what he says.

Donald Trump

Hourly rate - pay per hour actually worked.

Daily rate - pay per day actually worked.

etc. etc.

1373

Think about it , he charging you for the hour of sitting down at the table and for that hour your actually working for him and getting charged for it . Hold tough and tell your taking off the dinner hour and let him explain why you shouldn't.

cute geoge

I let chancers like that have a good wait let him come to you looking for his money that will soften his cough when he thinks he might get nought

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669560#Comment_122669560

Longer the time period goes the worse everyone’s memories is.
What is it with everyone wanting to immediately lynch the contractor. The driver likely communicated the hours to his boss.

Play it cool and challenge it with contractor while it’s fresh.

Mr..

Was the boss on the job? As someone above said it might just be a breakdown in communication.

50HX

Is the bill itemised??

Any contractor here will charge by the 15mins

A recent bill I got showed the following

7:45 - 10am = €€€

10 - 10:15 = breakfast

10:15 - 1pm = €€€

Etc

Strike while the iron is hot, meet him to pay & ask straight out why you are being charged for lunch hour...simples

Take It from there then

Anto_Meath

Ye can bet the lads working weren't paid for the dinner hour.

Base price

Our contractor with the umbilical pump doesn't charge us for the initial set up cost that it takes for them to reel out the pipes etc around the farm cause they know I will feed them well.

Sami23

Try get it sorted as lads have said while it's fresh in the memory and definitely don't pay him the lunch hour the cheeky fecker.

Aravo

Not clear if the OP was there with them from start to finish each day. With the recent good weather could they have started earlier and finished later than usual.

50HX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670395#Comment_122670395

That's irrelevant....they still had to eat

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670395#Comment_122670395

Most drivers are on set hours. They log the hours to the machine owner. I doubt if he was there early any morning not to mind even morning. This is a try on.

OP challenge it with him, pay him by cheque but make sure you have a new invoice before paymeny

Skerries Steve

The bill was

8am - 6pm= 10 hours

10hrs by 10days at €115 an hour= €11500.

The boss would come and go and was well aware of the setup, will have to have a chat but would have rathered if he was descent enough to recognise his lads were looked after instead of sucking the lunch hour onto the bill.

The Nutty M

Saucy enough of an hourly rate, my boss would want to charge more by the looks of things 😄.

A gentle reminder as everyone said to let him know about the lunch break before going all out. A simple " what can you do about the bill for the lunch break" could be all it takes.

have2flushtwice

My guy a few years ago, showed me the hours on the machine before he started and when he finished. Price was on that.

I've often seen lads stopping for a chat or waiting on a trailer to return, and the machine still running.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670751#Comment_122670751

I think "can you do anything about the lunch hour" leaves you on the back foot.

More like " there is an error in the billhe took an hour for lunch e ery day". As well I presume the charge is 100+vat and vat is 13.5%.

@Skerries Steve I hope you were driving the dumper to get value out of it or was the driver hopping up and down. Local contractor will often throw the dumper in for free ( well it comes full of diesel and must go full) and either you can drive it or the machinery driver. It's a 6 ton I think

1373

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670751#Comment_122670751

Not really. 2 men , a track machine , a tractor and dumper . But if they dine for an hour, then off come the hour

The Nutty M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670843#Comment_122670843

I am not disagreeing at all with the hourly charge. I am more than aware of the cost of machinery. What I was trying to say was in Mayo that cost would be around €95 for 13ton digger + tractor and 16ton dump trailer. And 100% the lunch break does not get charged.

@Bass Reeves the reason for starting out nicely with the conversation is to get the measure of the man. If he's decent, he will see the errors of his ways by this simple question. If he has a horse tied up outside his door, it will take more forceful words. But these words should be left until you can see which way he is going to move.

K.G.

Whether you gave them the dinner or not is irrelevant even though it's a decent thing to do but that's between you and the drivers.but the hours are between you and the contractor and while there should be a bit of give and take about hours no way is it standard pratice to charge for the lunch hour(most nowadays only take 1/2 hour for lunch and a quick break in morning).you d let the morning one go if it was quick .ask for an explanation and sort it out and then when that's sort it ask him is that the best he can do.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670859#Comment_122670859

I have being dealing with plant contractors for 30+,years. There are those that are as straight as a dye and those that always have a saddle with them. As the OP said the owner was there multiple time and knew the lie of the land. There was only one driver there. Maybe he was annoyed that the driver was going hard because he was getting his dinner every day.

However those with the saddle need to know you will not back down. Because he cone back with sone BS like he did not charge an coming on site fee,which any straight contractor will not do for that volume of work.

I am not sure I leave the door ajar for that to happen.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670987#Comment_122670987

Where did the op say there was only one driver? If there was only one driver then the rate per hour would be a much bigger issue than the lunch hour charge. One driver means only one machine was working at a time and both machines are idle maybe 10% of the time when he’s walking between the 2.

I wouldn’t let any plant contractor in around the place if he only has one driver to work 2 machines, that’d be completely taking the piss unless it was a job where the dump trailer was travelling a long distance with loads. Maybe then it’d be ok but for an on-site job you’re really getting rode if there’s only one driver.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671289#Comment_122671289

Sorry I sew now two drivers

Aravo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671289#Comment_122671289

Agreed, OP said lads had dinner and in another post the lads were looked after. Never mentioned 1 driver.

Aravo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670735#Comment_122670735

Are the hours correct. Were you on site each and every day. Is the start and finish time correct. Did they actually stop for an hour each day for lunch.

If the hours are correct and then they stopped for an hour each lunchtime then you are correct and mention it to the boss.

Most don't give out dinners but I'm sure the drivers really appreciated it and enjoyed the time spent working with you. And they will mention.. Do you remember the dinners we got at.....

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671300#Comment_122671300

I suppose either way it’s irrelevant to the problem anyway. The problem is being charged for the lunch hour the machines were idle, whether there was one man or 10 men it’s still the same problem!

kk.man

I think those types chance their arm. If a guy puts it up to him he backs down. If another customer accepts the bill it's a win for the contractor.

I actually know of a store owner who liked overchargeing for stuff. An ex employee told me he called the customer who didn't complain 'an idiot' after they settled the bill and went out the door.

Robson99

First contractor lads i've ever heard of taking an hour for lunch. I think he's doing you a 1/2 hr each day…. the lads took the piss with an hr for dinner

Sheep breeder

There was a local digger driver and dumper drive doing a job on clearing a site about 10 years ago and was picked up and brought each day to the local pub for dinner as the woman of the house was working, on the Friday the two lads said they would go for a quick sandwich and come back. They came back two hours later with new hair cuts and when the bill came the hours were charged as working on the lunch and the two hours on the Friday, the girl getting the work done wouldn’t pay them for the lunch and the friday and knocked off the payment, the father told everyone local about the two boys and ever since the are known as the hair cut crew and get very little work locally and have to travel for work.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671881#Comment_122671881

Contractor I use where the drivers are employees take 30 minutes at 10.30 for teabreakand 30 minutes at half one. Hours are 8-5 you are billed for 8 hours.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671984#Comment_122671984

Ya and he is only billing for hours worked. I'd say the boss man probably thought the lads were only taking 1/2 hr for dinner or 1/2 hr combined between 10 and 1 o clock breaks and took a chance on it. Lads went in for dinner and the chat and bit of craic started and lunch went on for an hour each day.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672366#Comment_122672366

No plant operator works with a half hour lunch break only especially if hours are 8-6. Generates two 30 minute breaks. Tge lads may have rolled them into one when they were getting there dinner.

A lot of machines ate on building sites, civil works etc. All these places operate two breaks. Construction workers etc are on tge road early so waiting for something to eat from 7.30 am to1pm is a bit long.

It's generally two breaks of 30minutes

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672616#Comment_122672616

Its farm work. Probably only 10 mins max at 10am. Usually cup of tea and quick sandwich on the machine. 30 mins max at lunchtime again usaully on machine. The lads took the piss when they cam in for the dinner. Fair enough if he did'nt charge for the hr. Imagine if they told him they took an hour for dinner… he would have ran them

Building sites they get deducted 1/2 hr for lunch and are expected to only take 10/15 min break at 10 am

Skerries Steve

The dinner was 40-45 minutes, no one taking the piss only the man doing up the bill, I don't see why that 3/4 of an hour should be rounded down to half an hour in my eyes in such a sizeable bill the 3/4 should be rounded up to an hour and knocked off the final figure, job done pay up and everyone's happy but was first time dealing with this contractor and would be the last when this is his attitude when all this had to be pointed out to him and he playing stupid when it suits.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122673363#Comment_122673363

so have you said it to him already?

Skerries Steve

Yes said it to him and his reply was the bill is the bill. I said that's fine and walked away with the chequebook left unopened.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122673677#Comment_122673677

I told you what to do ,let him sweat for ever how iong it takes ,I would even send him a bill for the dinners 😊

50HX

You have the hours & hourly rate Inc the vat

Minus the lunch hours from it

Right a cheque & never again employ or refer work onto him

Life's too short waiting for him to come looking for money & on goes this sh1te again

lmk123

Very same thing happened me a month ago, I paid it and said nothing, won’t be getting him again or recommending him . It doesn’t matter who you’re getting to do anything at the moment everyone is taking the p*ss, they must think there’s a never ending amount of work out there.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672733#Comment_122672733

Anecdotes are great but I'm in the plant game a long time between farmers and sites and the vast majority take an hour, the 1 or 2 lads you've met over the years that take a half hour break in the day are definitely not the norm

baxterooneydoody

On principle no way would I pay it, an hour is the norm for lunch however it's taken, dock the 10 hours and give him the cheque and tell him cop himself on

SodiumCooled

Definitely any lads doing work for me farm or house build (trades or machine work) would take 20 mins or so in the morning and an hour in the afternoon.

Most would either go to town or go home for lunch and they would be 20 mins driving there and back to town alone.

I’ve never paid by the hour though always by the job and 115 an hour looks insane money - i had a lad with a 13 tonne machine and his tractor + dumper (and roller hire for a few days) do a job for me last year about 15 days work granted it was one man on his own and priced as a job but would work out at about 350 a day incl VAT if I divided the price by the days.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677745#Comment_122677745

That's cheap and tbh is not comparable to someone who's in the game to make a living and a profit, his own circumstances dictate what he can charge but the majority of lads would go bust in jig time working at that, 350 plus vat is what I charge for the 2.7 ton for an 8 hour day. Stories like this is what makes lads think everyone is overcharging when in reality he's the one undercharging. The other side of it is he under priced the job and had to live with his mistake, which we all do from time to time

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677835#Comment_122677835

It’s his full time job so is making a living at it, in fairness he wouldn’t have had the machine going all day everyday at the work there would have been maybe 4 or 5 days between marking and levels, casing and concreting and other bits like that.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677745#Comment_122677745

I subcontracted fir a while I was being paid 350/day no vat I provided my self, my car( about 120miles per day) and I gave it up after a couple of months. It was 12 hour days. In my calculations I was on less than the minimum wage. The lad that did the job for you really f@@ked up on the price and must have been really stuck for work.

Very hard to get plant operations to price work like that. At present drivers are 20/hour add in there holidays pay, bank holidays, employer prsi and insurance and you are at 28/hour/driver.