Not sure what to do..

Raichų · 25-09-2024 8:52am #1

hi folks,

Before I start i understand that fundamentally this decision will be my own but I’m just looking for some opinions or insight on what to do.

So long story short I’ve been a chef for 3-4 years now and up until fairly recently I really enjoyed it. Okay, it’s not fair to say, fairly recently, I would say in the last 12-14 months I stopped enjoying work. Look I get no job is going to be perfect and you’ll love it (they’re all a bit shite that’s why you get paid!); but I guess I’ve also began to realise that as hard as you work in this industry you sort of don’t get anything back for it.

I have applied and interviewed for Field Sales for two companies, I don’t know if I want to mention what two, but either way I think they went very well. From reading into both companies and the offerings I mean it’s hard to even believe for me!

company car (have my own anyway but still cool!)
Phone & tablet
Pension scheme (paid into by company also)
Free health insurance
20+ days annual leave + company day (what is that by the way?)

just unreal benefits to what I get at the min! I’m not worried about its being a tough job because look being a chef is no walk in the park either! I just wonder is all this too good to be true and am I missing a vital detail? Am I insane to even think about this?

I’m just really fed up I guess that we effectively are taken for granted in the industry. I think it says a lot that chefs en masse left hospitality during covid, redeployed in different sectors and industries and very few (if any!) came back to hospitality afterwards.

In the span of my career I’ve known several chefs who did exactly the same thing left to be a builder, or work for Microsoft, or even the co council!

So what do ye old boards think anyway. Should I sit pretty with my experience and skills at the min (which effectively guarantee me work wherever I apply) or make the jump, relearn a new trade and try and climb the ropes again?

25-09-2024 9:06am

Just remember that you will only be as good as your last sale. Sales companies rely on sales and if you miss targets it's not good.

The other side is , you can always go back to cheffing if it doesn't work out or you don't like it.

smalltalker · 25-09-2024 10:36am

The benefits you've listed seem decent and pretty standard for a sales job, so I doubt there's any hidden catch - just that you will have targets to meet and stay focused on. Sales is a job that takes fairly particular skills and not everybody is suited to it, yet it's vital to businesses, so attracting and retaining staff usually means putting up a good package. If only there was the same attitude in the restaurant trade! I say go for it.

youtheman · 25-09-2024 10:41am

Just bear in mind that you will pay BIK (i.e. tax) on the Company Car and the Health Insurance.

L1011 · 25-09-2024 10:47am

Those benefits are the absolute minimum any job like that can have, and are not great at all.

Penn · 25-09-2024 10:56am

"20+ days annual leave + company day (what is that by the way?)"

At a guess I'd say it's probably either Good Friday (which isn't a mandatory public holiday but a lot of places might make it a company-wide day off), or it may be some day where the company has their own conference or something which isn't really work, but would also probably be mandatory to attend.

irelandrover · 25-09-2024 10:59am

I wouldn't call getting a phone and tablet for work a benefit. It is necessary to do your job. Similarly a company car if i was a travelling salesperson.

20+ days holidays? How many holiday do i actually get, the legal minimum is not a benefit.

The only actual benefit there are the pension and health insurance but you would need to actually have details of what they pay before calling them benefits.

Raichų · 26-09-2024 8:37am

thanks for the replies folks.

I should say while I’m aware a lot of this sounds commonplace or just the norm for most people these are things no job in hospitality would give you end of.

For example, I am aware the phone and car are almost mandatory to do the job, that said, knives, chef jackets and aprons are mandatory to do my job at the moment- yet I had to buy them all myself! The lump sum cost of getting myself ready for a days work back when I started was nearly €2k.

The car is for work and personal use if I so desire also, so it’s really just a new car for me which I kinda need anyway!🤣 I get that 20 days annual leave is fairly normal also however getting time off in hospitality is another nightmare. But as well as that I work all holidays. Mother’s Day, Easter, paddy’s day, new year etc. bank holiday? Doesn’t matter, I have work anyway.

So I guess these things just feel way more important than they are because as it stands at the moment I just get paid my wages based on hours I work and if the place is quiet I’m making half my usual wage. If I get sick it’s my problem. So if my hours are down and I get sick.. well you can understand the situation I’d be in then. 😅

Also I should say the “free phone” is not just a work phone and tablet, they also give you an employee discount on a sim only plan for your own personal phone (and the discount is 100% incidentally). But you do get a work phone and tablet of course, but both of which can be used for personal reasons on my off time they do not mind. Though I’m sure they’re watching!!

Ted222 · 26-09-2024 8:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655470#Comment_122655470

If the place is quiet you only get half pay?????

You do realise an employer can’t do this, right?

LambshankRedemption · 26-09-2024 8:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655470#Comment_122655470

Barring the company car I was getting all those benefits in a junior position aged 24. I realise this is new to you coming from hospitality, but don't be too distracted by the new benefits over what the job entails. What will you be selling? Is it something you can sell? Is it an easy or difficult thing to sell. The phrase "he can sell ice to eskimos" describes someone who can sell anything. If you find yourself in the position of having to sell ice, and your target market are eskimos you could find the job has a hell of a lot more stress than you are used to. I know you are going to turn around and say there is nothing more stressful than working in a kitchen, but this is a very different kind of stress. Ive had colleagues burnout which led to months on leave, and some never returned to the job.

In a kitchen, if you have 30 chicken breasts and 60 people order chicken, its a stressful situation, but there are things you can do. If you have been given the job of selling something no-one wants to buy, there is not a lot you can do about it, which can lead to depression, anxiety and a world of pain.

Please go into this with your eyes open.

Ted222 · 26-09-2024 9:10am

Sales jobs are fairly plentiful and the perks you’ve described are fairly standard.

It’s easy for employers to take a punt on someone with no obvious experience because they can ditch them fairly quickly if it doesn’t work out.

You could always give it a go in the knowledge that your chef skills will always be in demand.

mrslancaster · 26-09-2024 10:34am

Field sales, ie B2C door-to-door cold calling versus a creative, highly skilled and technical job like a chef would be no contest imo, but that's probably because i'm not a great cook and I think it's amazing that someone can turn a few ingredients into something delicious to eat. And it's not just one dish, they can cook all-sorts! It's a fantastic skill, can take a person all over the world and into so many different settings, can teach others, can set up their own retail food business (although that has it's own stresses too), can find a niche and produce a consumer food product. People always have to eat.

Why did you train as a chef initially? Is it the actual work or the conditions that you want to change? Maybe another employer would suit you better, working for a new company can make a huge difference eg if the hours are different or higher pay. Pros and cons in all jobs tbf, best of luck.

Raichų · 26-09-2024 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655496#Comment_122655496

Sorry, just to be clear, it’s not like I work 40 hours and get paid for 20. We will only get rostered for 20 hours therefore I lose half my average wage.

Very few chefs I know are paid a salary (ie a fixed rate every week).

Raichų · 26-09-2024 11:02am

Also sorry I should say, it’s sales with Eir. So broadband, TV & mobile.

Besides being a chef I’ve a very good understanding of Networking and IT generally. I understand the product very well.

I was offered a job as a bord gais sales agent but declined on the basis I do not have any experience, knowledge or insight into the electricity and gas market. It would’ve been very difficult to sell the product because frankly it’s a bloody headache setting up my own account trying to understand the difference price plans and etc 🤣

Whenever I change mobile or broadband provider I know exactly what I need and what is a fair price to pay etc. I can easily distinguish and explain say the difference between a 500mb connection vs a 1GB, why would one suit a certain household more than the other and so on.

Look I’m not saying I’ll be a top performer and god knows maybe I’ll sell a single connection only and never make it past my probation but I feel confident in my ability definitely.

LambshankRedemption · 26-09-2024 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655921#Comment_122655921

Would you like working 80 hours a week for a fixed salary?

Raichų · 26-09-2024 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655842#Comment_122655842

Yeah i definitely see the step backwards in its own way and i will miss the freedom of the kitchen (you can be very different in a kitchen than an office environment haha).

It’s really the hours and whatnot. I’ve moved job I want to say 6 times in the last 18 months because as you say I thought it was the place, in beginning to realise, it’s likely myself. I am being coy in details but believe you me the creativity you describe is far less common than you’d imagine.

For example, one place I worked had not changed their menu in the previous 4 years. I made some suggestions and each and every time I was shot down.

I will never forget, I made some Merginue “kisses” for garnishing desserts. When I came back to work the following day, I couldn’t find them. Upon enquiring I learned someone threw them in the bin as they were deemed unnecessary and pointless.

So yeah.

CrazyEric · 26-09-2024 11:09am

Is it a Monday to Friday job?? Probably salary plus commission so the more you sell the better you do.

I do not work weekends…. it is such a great bonus to me as I enjoy time off. You have 10 public holidays also so 31 paid days off per year or 6+ weeks.

The company I am with has a policy of giving you your birthday off….company day.

Try it and see. There is a shortage of good Chefs so you can always go back.

CelticRambler · 26-09-2024 11:30am

Be careful what you wish for.

What you haven't said is what you're looking for in a job. If it's long term security and Good Money, then you might find that a Field Sales role isn't really much different to what you're doing at the moment. Does the job ad specify a guaranteed minimum salary, or does it push the "OTE" figure? If the latter, then you'll really need to believe in the product/service you're selling, and having that kind of mentality is quite different to the technical/craftsman work you've been doing up to now. What'll you do if you can't meet the targets set for you and the company decide to let you go at the end of your probationary period?

If you're just a bit fed up with where you are in life, you could consider looking for work as a chef in a different country. It's a very transferable skill, and - for many of the same reasons as you've already experienced - one that's always in demand with not too much of a language barrier. A change in location might also change how you see those holidays. Are they really that big a deal? Is it not better that you know you'll have plenty of hours around those dates, and you can take time off when travel and accommodation is much cheaper?

Geuze · 26-09-2024 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058370388/not-sure-what-to-do

20 days annual leave is the legal minimum for all workers.

Practically all workers will be in a work pension soon, as Auto-Enrolment is rolled out, so "work pension" will no longer be a perk.

callaway92 · 26-09-2024 2:12pm

You have to stop saying things like ‘I get that 20 days annual leave is fairly normal’

It’s definitely below average. It’s the legal minimum requirement and is not a benefit. The only reason anybody working full time might not have 20 days is if they’re self-employed.

It is NOT a benefit.

Field Sales is a brutally tough and draining industry.

Would check out doing catering or something before getting into it.

miamee · 26-09-2024 2:50pm

Having worked with a lot of sales people over the years, it is a very specific type of person who is good at it and enjoys it, it's not for everyone and knocking on doors is another layer to it that might not be to your liking. Not everyone will be happy to see you, you may end up fielding a few face to face complaints along the way.

As others have pointed out, the benefits of this job are minimum requirements. Even the car is needed to get you around - also it will probably be a branded vehicle, which may make no difference to you but I remember in a company I used to work with the sales guys had company cars but one year the company decided to get full decals on all of them - they were not happy at all.

It sounds like you definitely need a change of environment and you might relish the opportunity to do something totally different. Just do so with your eyes wide open. See if you can talk to someone already doing the job for a realistic view of what the day to day is like.

Rows Grower · 26-09-2024 3:05pm

Eir are very anxious to recruit sales people because of the Fibre Optic roll out system that is being introduced to new customers mainly in rural areas. I had one of them call here a while back and the company car was more like a little promo novelty Fiesta type van thing wrapped in the Eir logo. I wouldn't consider it a perk to be honest.

They are offering a good enough deal which I signed up for much to the sales reps delight, however upon reading the small print I discovered he had left out some small details like it was a 2 year deal and not a 12 month deal and the cost will increase every 12 months. I cancelled within a couple of days and decided we would stay with our local company who are a little more expensive per month and don't give TV, mobile and landline phone as part of their package but they are reliable and very trustworthy. Trying to cancel with Eir was a very difficult process which is obviously part of their strategy to keep customers.

I'd advise extreme caution before leaving a job to sign up with them, I get the distinct impression very few of the new sales reps they have recently recruited will be around longer than 12 months never mind with them long enough to draw a pension.

If you're really determined to leave your employer because they won't allow you a bit of creativity then you sound like you'd be more suited to opening your own business. Food trucks are popping up all over the place, I'm very rural south Kerry and there are 2 brand new ones opened within a 15 minute drive recently and they are both are doing very well.

Most shops and established businesses will also give a small producer of quality products an opportunity, a neighbour of ours started selling really nice cakes and cookies from his door and he's expanded over the years and now runs a very good business supplying shops, cafes and supermarkets.

Raichų · 26-09-2024 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655948#Comment_122655948

I mean I would appreciate a consistent wage, yeah, if that’s the question.

I don’t envision I’ll be tasked to work 80 hours a week anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656046#Comment_122656046

just on the query re salary, yes, I have been offered a basic salary that is on roughly par with my present pay. It is slightly more than what I’m making now but not exactly €€€’s a week more! Thats just basic salary & obviously then OTE add an additional €18.5k annually (assuming you only hit the minimum targets).

I’m not really looking to do this permanently I don’t think. I’m kind of hoping it would be a springboard into a similar job but perhaps with the classic 9-5 office craic. The hours would be 11-6 each day, at the moment I work from 12-11pm each day. Sometimes a little earlier finishing. I understand similar works here also. No weekends at all though so that’s the real plus for me!

I unfortunately can’t uproots and head out I’ve a partner & two kids so that’s a major consideration also with regards weekends and holidays etc off! The kids especially are always heartbroken I’m not home for Easter etc. It also really upsets me and my partner as well.

Look if it all went to shite it was a lesson learned and an experience gained, I can easily go back to being a chef if necessary. That said if I can manage to make it to 12 months or longer I put myself in a good position to look at other things within a similar vein. I could get into retail sales or even office work selling business products or something. I’m not looking to be a millionaire like, but truth be told lads, I’d rather work in Aldi at this stage than a kitchen.

kippy · 26-09-2024 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655470#Comment_122655470

That's a great post and provides some context/comparisons to people who may never have worked in a really hard job like most jobs in a kitchen.

I've worked with former chefs in a number of roles and in general they have picked up some brilliant transferrable skills in the kitchen that make them really good employees in many areas.

You seem to have a good attitude towards a new role and look to have had enough of your old role, as happens with chefing regularly. If you get the job offer go for it. It could be the change that you need.

Best of luck.

Raichų · 26-09-2024 5:08pm

haha I see a lot of you guys never worked as chefs anyway :P

Trust me it’s a horrible job. I’m sure field sales is a shite job too— but that’s why jobs pay, they’re all a bit shite!

I suppose I should make it abundantly clear this isn’t a “career” plan for me so to speak. Like if you ask me will I still be knocking doors selling broadband/or insert product in 20 years? God I hope not.

But i certainly wouldn’t be against picturing myself in an office environment or the likes of a main dealer garage selling stuff to folks. My overall aim is to get into a 9-5 job within the next few years. I could, yes, go to college and study for a degree to get such a job, but I don’t get paid to go to college so.

Look don’t get me wrong and I really feel I was not clear enough about this, I made up my mind I want out of the kitchen a long time ago— and these things are less benefits granted than tools to do the job, fair enough.

But then you have stuff like a €7 a day lunch allowance, OTE of over €18k a year, yearly bonus incentives, monthly rewards for being a good performer etc. prob all standard craic too! But not for me. ;)

Look, I’m not that young anymore (28) but I’m not an aul lad just yet either so I think it’s a good time to make the change and at the end of it all if I end up back to square one nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose?

I suppose I’ve sort of got my answer I needed here. As I expected it’s not a glamorous job and you will be met with some.. interesting characters, but that said there’s also chances to earn some really nice money if you perform well. I never apply for any job unless I’m confident I can perform well— to do otherwise is a waste of time!!

Really I was worried that it would be like selling Avon or something. Basically you’ll have about as much chance as making a few quid as you would buying scratch cards. Or that it was all some sort of mad scam. I don’t know, overly paranoid. 🤣

I think I’ll phone them in the morning and accept the offer. I probably shouldn’t mention here, but they’re offering a basic salary before OTE of €31k. Having no experience in sales to speak of I think that’s pretty nice? The interviewer was very impressed with my answers to his questions which were competency based. He directed afterwards that he felt I was “confident”, “friendly”, “respectful” and possessed a good attitude.

I think I’ll regret it more if I turn it down.

Raichų · 26-09-2024 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657290#Comment_122657290

I think you are right. I would just be looking back and wondering “what if”! At the end of it all, if it goes pear shaped, I’ve enough friends in hospitality to go back in the morning!!

kirving · 26-09-2024 5:30pm

I don't mean to rain on your offer, however…

company car (have my own anyway but still cool!)

They're giving you a car because you'll be in it all day.

Phone & tablet

Work tools, not toys like when you buy it for personal use.

Pension scheme (paid into by company also)

Good, but I think will be required soon.

Free health insurance

You'll still pay BIK, so worth about €100 per month. They want you back to work ASAP if you're sick or injured.

20+ days annual leave + company day (what is that by the way?)

This is a minimum requirement.

All that said, working in a kitchen it probably one of the toughest jobs out there, so chilling in the car listening to a podcast on the way to the next customer could be a fantastic change for you.

Best of luck with it, take it as a stepping stone, focus on building up a good relationship with your customers, have a healthy disrespect for the micromanaging that will come, and enjoy the change!

Raichų · 26-09-2024 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657349#Comment_122657349

thanks so much! No youre 100%, using it as a springboard into (please god) something better and less stressful is the main goal, but look, as I say, if I work for another year as a chef, nothing changes!

I have to say the main thing for me is the weekends off. 🤣

AndrewJRenko · 27-09-2024 10:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655941#Comment_122655941

I spoke to a retired chef in her 60s who is basically crippled with dodgy knees and hips after all the years on her feet, so you might be right to be planning your exit.

Is this cold calling of consumers for broadband, or responding to people who have expressed in interest? These would be very different ballparks from a sales and indeed sanity POV.

MacDanger · 27-09-2024 11:12am

Would you consider starting your own catering company? You could do it on the side while you're doing this sales job

LambshankRedemption · 27-09-2024 12:53pm

I don’t envision I’ll be tasked to work 80 hours a week anyway.

Not tasked, but you might have to put in those hours to meet your targets.

Thats why Im telling you to go into this with your eyes open.

Raichų · 27-09-2024 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659332#Comment_122659332

no. look restaurants are closing left and right and Ireland is not an easy place to get a food business up and running in! Unfortunately the market is (at the moment) quite overwhelmed and honestly I wouldn’t even have the money to do so!

I’m honestly trying to do less hours overall as well which is not going to happen if I own my own business— but I have definitely given it thought in the past.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659672#Comment_122659672

Ah look, like I said I’m aware it’s not going to be sunshine and rainbows everyday— look I’m under no illusions about if this is going to be a breeze or not, it’s just that love I had to go and serve food.. it’s just gone. There’s more to it than that in fairness but that’s the long and short I’m really just not happy doing this anymore.

I suspect in some part the replies I’ve gotten here and my responses to them have almost confirmed that to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. I may indeed hate very minute of this job but I’m well able to stick out a job I hate if there’s light at the end of the tunnel. At one stage I saw light at the end of my tunnel with being a chef, but as I progressed from commis to chef de partie you begin to realise it’s the same shite job but with more responsibility and stress.

nearby_cheetah · 01-10-2024 8:03pm

Have you never had those door to door salespeople calling to your house? That's what you'll be and people will barely acknowledge you as they close the door in your face. That's if they open the door at all.

It's not a great move.

Can you move into management where you are? Or work as a cook in a day time cafe in your local town?