Is getting married still worth it nowadays?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122680233#Comment_122680233

That's not what happens, if you live as a cohabiting couple beyond the first 7 years you are unlikely to get married so a score for cohabiting not marriage. However your chances of still living together after 10 years are much reduced.

If you are seeking a long stable relationship you had best get married.

Hotblack Desiato

Well for example if the doctors thought that spouse was attempting to make medical decisions that were not in the best interest of the patient in question. 

This also apples to other relationships e.g. parent(s) of a child patient. The doctors will go to court to countermand the parent(s) wishes if they have to. E.g. if a blood transfusion is necessary to save the child's life but the parents are JWs.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122680717#Comment_122680717

Who collects those stats? Where can I find them?

I was with my partner 12 years and now married for 8. Our bond has gotten deeper since then with the passage of time. I don't attribute it to getting married.

We never thought we'd get married or have children. Then we changed our mind and decided to do both. Other people can arrange their relationship any way they want without being any less valid or strong than mine.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122678765#Comment_122678765

That is an anecdote, nothing more. Some cohabiting couples marry, not because they want to marry or have any drive for it but finances or legal protection makes it shrewd business decision, it does not solidify their relationship anymore. Marriage has not made them more stable, it was just a box to tick for legal reasons.

The point is, we all have anecdotes. I know people who cohabited for years with out any sign of marriage, have a home, have a life, just never occurred to them. My sister cohabited for 15 years, got married as were they moved for work they could not have PDIs, live together, etc. Nothing changed. Friend from college met his partner in secondary school, 30+ years later, 2 kids, home, no mention of marriage. My Sister in Law was co habiting for 30+ years, again, 2 kids. Funny thing is, everyone I know who has cheated or been cheated on was married. These are anecdotes but from my perspective, marriage leads to infidelity more than co habiting.

Long story short, your unverified facts in no way support your point. What you have is an opinion, not a fact, nothing more. It is no less valid than those posters who have disagreed with you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122683062#Comment_122683062

I have read around this extensively and there is a clear consensus that cohabiting couples have significantly shorter relationships. Also outcomes for children in relationships of cohabiting couples are poorer.

So the anicdotal stories of long solid cohabiting relationships are the exception and not the norm.

It seems that the primary difference between married and cohabiting couples is a marriage is proceeded by a clear statement of intent to enter into a durable long term relationship - a stage which is frequently absent in cohabiting relationship and which makes them less durable.

taxAHcruel

And yet despite being asked multiple times you will not cite ANY of this "extensive reading" :) curious.

However your last paragraph is more telling. It sounds like the "intent" and "statement of intent" is the key there not marriage. Sorta making my/our point for us there. Whether that statement "proceeds" or precedes marriage or both it makes it sound like marriage itself is entirely superfluous to requirements. So well done you.

Your error is akin to thinking the packaging is more important than a given product because the product rarely arrives without that packaging.

There are many ways to make your statement of intent in a relationship. Marriage is not required to do it. People do it in many ways. I myself try to do it over and over again - finding ways as often as possible to renew my statements of intent in every way I act in an ongoing basis.

Other people also have ceremonies that are similar to weddings but do not involve actual marriage under any public or private contract or institution. Their statement of intent in that ceremony is no lesser than the ones you baselessly pedestal.

But I would be perfectly willing to accept the suspicion that people who make ANY statement of intent towards staying together long term - statistically stay together long term more often than those that make no such statement. Bugger all to do with "marriage" though.

The simple fact is that you have shown nothing but personal anecdote, claims to reading material you can not cite, and a lack of knowledge of statistics, and throw away school yard one liners - to suggest any relationship is automatically better or worse or more or less durable or based on stronger or weaker bonds than any other simply because formal marriage is or is not in the mix.

Deebles McBeebles

Spot the priest.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122683407#Comment_122683407

Except despite being asked repeatedly, you have not provided any sources for these facts that you are harping on about.

Considering the general attitude in Ireland towards unmarried parents up until the early 2000's in reality, it's no wonder that marriage was the norm & there would be more data on that & also that you'd hear more about the cohabitation ones where something went wrong. They were almost used as scare stories. So what about couples who are engaged but not married yet? The engagement is a clear statement of intent not the marriage. Marriage is a contract and as such the statement of intent or offer to treat is what happens before that is signed. Which is an engagement. Were engaged couples included in your extensive reading?

And what are these outcomes for children? What poorer outcomes are you talking about?

I'll give you some stats from my own experience. 2 siblings each have 4 children. All grown up. Sibling A's children have all gotten married. Sibling B's children all cohabited for lengthy periods. Out of the 4 of Sibling A's children, 3 are now divorced after between 5-10 years of marriage (maybe cohabiting for 1-2 years before marriage). Sibling B's children, 3 are now married after cohabiting for more than 10 years on average before getting married, the 4th is planning a wedding for another couple of years time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692586#Comment_122692586

I am not here to convince you of anything. I don't really care what people do.

I know the raw facts are the marriage makes for a more durable relationship. The question was are there any advantages to getting married, my answer is yes if you want a long stable relationship.

End of story really.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692601#Comment_122692601

Can you point to the source of the facts you're referring to so we can all know the facts?

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692601#Comment_122692601

But you keep saying about statistics of cohabiting couples not lasting or having poorer outcomes on children. Yet when asked about those, you don't provide anything. I know I can't provide any actual statistics on the positive cohabiting couples who've lasted but at least I'm not pretending to have those facts.

I have seen nothing in my years of life that shows that marriage alone makes for a more durable relationship. Especially considering divorce was illegal in Ireland during my lifetime. So that's a lot of marriages that maybe would have ended sooner if the option had actually been there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692874#Comment_122692874

Did you not read where I said I am not trying to convince you of anything. I made a statement based on what research I personally did and presented my position based on it. Do with that what you want.

People seem very twitchy over that but thats your issue not mine.

89897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692892#Comment_122692892

People are rightly getting twitchy when you dismiss someones opinion as less important because they arent married and then wont back up your "evidence" for that when questioned!

taxAHcruel

And that "research you personally did" might be the Catholic "Messenger" magazine (is that still going or have I just dated myself there heheh) - the back of a cereal packet - the voices in your head - or the IONA institute opinion blogs for all we know.

Which is fine. It just means you are calling your opinion "fact". You are welcome to your baseless opinions and assertions. We are just pointing out that opinion and assertions is all it appears to be. You seem very twitching over that but that's your issue not ours.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692892#Comment_122692892

Well yes I am a bit twitchy when people claim to have "facts" but when asked to provide where these "facts" might be obtained by someone else, give a politician style answer & push it back on me having a problem.

You presented facts, not your position. There's a difference. I've no problem with anyone else here's opinion on marriage being better or anything, to each their own. My problem is with someone claiming facts and statistics showing something but when asked for them, get twitchy & say it's my issue.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692892#Comment_122692892

So basically then it's just your opinion. No more or less valid than anyone else's here until/unless you provide the sources of this research you say you've done.

Glad we cleared that up.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692601#Comment_122692601

This is just spoofery.

Oscar_Madison

I’m not going to get in any argument with anyone here around cohabitation before marriage - from a personal “knowledge” perspective, ie the limited reading of newspaper articles on the subject though the years, I certainly held the “view” that it was fact that couples who cohabited before marriage had a greater chance of separation /divorce later on.
That was solely related to those who cohabited AND then married - not those who continually cohabited but didn’t get married.

I reckon with modern ways of doing things now, even that statistic is outdated -can’t honestly remember when such stats were last presented to me - I reckon it’s a good 10 years ago now .

Just did a quick google and found this article from 2021 and American based but it does highlight that cohabitation before marriage is a risk factor - must try and search out some Irish articles

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/meet-catch-and-keep/202101/are-couples-that-live-together-before-marriage-more-likely-to?amp

El_Duderino 09

A few Kevin Samuels videos (IYKYK) have come up in my TikTok and because I'm a masochist, I watch them. It's basically a man telling women they're too old, fat and unattractive to get a man unless they're willing to be submissive and give the man whatever he wants.

And the women are equally deluded into thinking they are entitled to a man on $200k who will take care of her and her 3 kids, by 3 different gang-bangin baby-daddies.

The whole thing is so transactional. It's alien to me but I watch it because it's an approach to relationships which is completely different to what I understand.

There's no talk of what I consider to be the basis of a relationship: being a team, caring for each other, mutual attraction, having each other's back, speak well about each other in public, telling them when their sh1t stinks in private and supporting each other when they want to do something new or exciting to them.

That's what I understand a relationship to be, you're whether married or not.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122696240#Comment_122696240

There's no talk of what I consider to be the basis of a relationship: being a team, caring for each other, mutual attraction, having each other's back, speak well about each other in public, telling them when their sh1t stinks in private and supporting each other when they want to do something new or exciting to them.

That all sounds very intense! 😳

Seeing as it’s AH though, bit more light-hearted is what I consider to be the basis of a relationship:

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692892#Comment_122692892

If you are not attempting to convince anyone why are you continuously spouting your nonsensical opinion as "fact".

You've done all this reading around the subject so it should be very easy to point people in the right direction for these stats that back up your "facts".

By all means have the opinion that you believe getting married shows greater intent to commitment in a relationship. My opinion is that the 35year mortgage that I've signed up for with my partner is a far greater commitment than if we were to get married and continue to rent together.

However that is merely what I believe, I have no stats to back up cohabitation with a mortgage leads to a more stable relationship than a marriage with rental accommodation so I wouldn't dream of stating it as a fact.