Aldi worker sacked over sex assault conviction wins €5,000

Francie Barrett

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0917/1470526-aldi-worker-sacked-over-sex-assault-conviction-wins-5k/

This is just wrong on so many levels. How can a man who committed a sexual assault against a colleague in the workplace be awarded €5k after his actions come to light at his new employer and he is fired? 🤬

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058369676/aldi-worker-sacked-over-sex-assault-conviction-wins-5-000

Because as in almost every other case of wrongful dismissal, Aldi didn't follow procedure.

CalamariFritti

Sexual assault is obviously ugly and criminal but it's legally a criminal conviction like any other criminal conviction. Are we saying anyone with a conviction should never get a job again? Not even a low level one?

I mean there is obviously more to it. Disclosure vs non-disclosure and more. But OP effectively reducing it to that so hence my question.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058369676/aldi-worker-sacked-over-sex-assault-conviction-wins-5-000

This is just wrong on so many levels. How can a man who committed a sexual assault against a colleague in the workplace be awarded €5k after his actions come to light at his new employer and he is fired?

The article explained how, like, right away:

"A Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) adjudicator concluded there had been a "rush to dismissal" after bosses at the organisation were shown a newspaper report on the man's court case and accused him of failing to disclose his conviction – even though it later emerged he had told his line manager."

ie. the action came to light the day after he appeared and was convicted in court, Aldi let him remain gainfully employed for 8 weeks without incident, and only then upper management decided to freak out and fire him.

Anyway the adjudicator only gave a split decision here, placing 50% of the responsibility on the plaintiff: while he did inform his manager and he did proceed to then have uneventful employment for 8 weeks before upper management saw the news story and freaked out, there was a clause in his employment contract they could terminate him for any criminal conviction beyond a minor motoring/traffic offense. The adjudicator reasoned that because he had worked uneventfully for 2 months post-conviction and after notifying his direct manager (which is the same length of time he was convicted for, 2 months suspended incidentally, and the court also determined he did not need to register as a sex offender, in what reportedly boiled down to "mistaken intentions" that the man has accepted full responsibility over), that Aldi had not proven substantial grounds for dismissal under their stated reasoning to the commission that his employment presented some kind of unmitigable risk to them.

griffin100

This a case where the employer, possibly rightly, bypassed procedure and removed what it perceived as a risk to colleagues and customers. It's one of those cases where the employer is sinning for the right reasons and they will get mostly positive feedback. One can only imagine the outrage from the usual suspects if he had been kept on whilst policy was being followed and he offended again.

I am shocked at the view from the WRC that an employee who remains 8 weeks free from a sexual assault conviction is essentially reformed and no longer a risk-

"Adjudicator Patsy Doyle wrote that there had been no regard paid to Mr Kashif’s "unblemished record" or the eight weeks of "uneventful service" after he disclosed the conviction to his bosses.

Aldi had failed to "consider the impact of dismissal on an already State-sanctioned employee," she wrote, adding that the eight weeks’ service without issue "should be considered proof of a storm weathered".

ejmaztec

This is the case that Aldi found out about, the guy's a complete a-hole now relishing in getting a €5K payout.

Limerick sex assault victim endured three and a half hour attack (limerickpost.ie)

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633710#Comment_122633710

I am shocked at the view from the WRC that an employee who remains 8 weeks free from a sexual assault conviction is essentially reformed and no longer a risk-

No need to be, that's not what the WRC stated.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633655#Comment_122633655

I am not saying that at all.

I am saying that someone convicted of sexual assault shouldn't be getting a €5k payout for unfair dismissal.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633724#Comment_122633724

His victim was subjected to a 3 and a half hour long assault. He got a suspended sentence for this and was kept off the sex offenders register!

BK5

€5,000 well spent in my opinion. Worth it to have a low life like that out of your place.

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633759#Comment_122633759

The judge was an idiot in the original case, giving him a 2 month suspended sentence, and because it was a non-custodial sentence, his name couldn't be entered in the sex offender' register. He should have been locked up for what he did, and for a hell of a lot longer than two months.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633759#Comment_122633759

why not? His rights were infringed. just because he served a sentence he doesn't lose protections under the law.

or are you saying he should? they all should? all ex-cons should be treated as lesser under the law?

tell us more.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633759#Comment_122633759

Why not?

The reporting makes the reasoning behind it rather clear.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633771#Comment_122633771

3 and a half hour long assault? I think you may be distorting the reporting available: he did try "advances" with her for 3 and a half hours yes, whatever action he took during to sexually assault her during that time is left fundamentally unclear though.

Speaking about the attack, Ms O’Loughlin told the Limerick Post that she had been left alone in one part of the restaurant with the convicted man, where she spent three and a half hours trying to repel his advances.

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2022/12/21/man-who-sexually-assaulted-county-limerick-woman-cannot-be-put-on-offenders-register/

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633782#Comment_122633782

Do you have access to the court findings of fact to make such a determination from the armchair?

It is true at least that if the court wanted him on the registry they needed to hand down a non-custodial sentence. There seems to be no reporting indicating why he wasn't, we have to presume it came down to the totality of the individual circumstances and the jurisprudence.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633816#Comment_122633816

Distorting facts?

The RTE headline itself says that he was convicted of a sexual assault.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633802#Comment_122633802

Nonsense.

All companies have a code of conduct. If I had committed a serious crime like the guilty party here did, then I would fully expect to be dismissed.

If someone wants to take a chance on a man convicted of sexual assault, they are 100% entitled to do so. However, no employer should ever be compelled to retain such a person in their employment.

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633820#Comment_122633820

I think it fair to say that there are various judges in Ireland that hand out ridiculous sentences for whatever reason. I haven't seen any other cases in which that particular judge has been involved, so can't say if she falls into the pitiful sentencing category. In the Limerick area, the last Limerick judge that I recall who handed out light sentences on a regular basis, was Tom O'Donnell, the one who retired early after giving the woman battering soldier a suspended sentence, which led to uproar and outrage all around the country.

DeadHand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633816#Comment_122633816

Lad.

He groped/slapped her arse, grabbed her breasts, grabbed her vagina twice, rubbed his horn against her.

He behaved forcefully and aggressively. She was terrified and is traumatised.

If you don't consider this sexual assault, you have problems far beyond poor reading comprehension.

In any event, I think Aldi deserve respect for (eventually) acting to protect their employees and customers where the Irish State failed to.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633724#Comment_122633724

Absolute creep. Married with kids and all. Would love to know how he came to live in Ireland if working low skilled, low level jobs.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633898#Comment_122633898

However, no employer should ever be compelled to retain such a person in their employment.

They weren't compelled to do so, they simply screwed up in how they acted. They could have followed procedure and law and still sacked him. The same employment laws that protect him protect everyone else.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633875#Comment_122633875

The headline does not say a 3.5 hour sexual assault like your post distorts it as…

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633898#Comment_122633898

The Commission found Aldi had taken that chance: he informed his manager, as required, Aldi kept him on, then changed its mind 8 weeks later. There is nothing in this story indicating they were forced to hire him back on either, so we need not bring that into this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633950#Comment_122633950

If Irish citizens are fed up with sentencing they feel is too light, there is always a remedy for that, and it's sentencing reforms passed by the legislature. Courts are bound to follow the laws and jurisprudence, they can't let give 2 people with analogously similar crimes and circumstances get 2 wildly disparate sentences under the same law and precedent. If the bar for sentencing is low, it is low for everyone involved.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633962#Comment_122633962

Hand.

Where did you read those details at?

No need for your strawman argument anyway: I never once claimed he was not guilty of sexually assaulting her, I pointed out the reporting I've seen doesn't indicate the sexual assault itself ie. illegal physical contact, lasted for 3.5 hours. Specifically the article naming him cited 3.5 hours of advances towards her, which is a separate thing from sexual assault. If you don't understand the distinction, etc. etc.

Overheal

Nevermind, found it, much more harrowing that the other report (by the same outlet no less - and the same f*cking reporter) that watered down most of it as "advances" - this wasn't 'advances' that led up to a crossed line etc. this was obscene acts of sexual assault that occurred sporadically over the length of time.

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2022/12/21/limerick-sex-assault-victim-endured-three-and-a-half-hour-attack/

And explains the issue with his lesser sentence:

The court heard he has no previous convictions but Judge Patricia Harney said that his plea “was hardly an early admission”, even if it had saved Ms O’Loughlin from having to give full evidence and relive the assault.

After warning that she was considering a prison sentence, Judge Harney said she was obliged to consider the plea and his clean record and sentenced him to two months in jail suspended for two years.

So it is a sh*tty jurisprudence issue, adding to the pile of reasons Ireland badly needs criminal justice reforms passed into law.

I wouldn't have made the same decision as his line manager if this was the version of events I had read, he'd be out the door per the clause in his contract.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633898#Comment_122633898

Code of conduct means code of conduct during the employment not having an unblemished record through your entire life up to here.

For the record I dont have much sympathy for this man, however, we live in a state of law.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633776#Comment_122633776

Totally agree after getting a fuller picture.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633759#Comment_122633759

He should if he was unfairly dismissed. Him having a prior should never mean the law no longer applies to him.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633976#Comment_122633976

Simple really. We can’t get enough people to work low skilled jobs so we give work permits to people from other countries.

Meirleach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633724#Comment_122633724

Wow, that's the real travesty here. 2 month suspended sentence? Our judiciary are a joke.

The guy shouldn't have been out walking around to be hired by Aldi in the first place. I would be more sympathetic if he'd actually served a custodial sentence.

Can completely see why Aldi got him out as soon as possible, could you imagine the papers when he reoffends and assaults another colleague. This is one of the few cases where I believe a business was morally in the right and not legally.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634115#Comment_122634115

the manager will probably be out a job, they’re the ones who let him stay on, and ended up costing Aldi 5k

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634090#Comment_122634090

Begs the question what the low skilled people on unemployment are doing wrong that they can not fill these low skilled positions instead.

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634000#Comment_122634000

It's inconsistency all round with judges, some are harsher than others, but not by much. and there seems to be no move to make the judges get their act together.

I think the most famous judge, or infamous as far as a lot of people are concerned, is Judge Martin Nolan. Over the years various petitions have been launched to get him removed, and the only removal that takes place is the removal of the petitions. I saw mention somewhere that judges can't be fired so a petition is a waste of time if that's the case.

I think all the judges should be given new sentencing guidelines for the sake of consistency.

If the real problem is prison overcrowding then they should build more.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633729#Comment_122633729

What you understand the following statement to mean-

the eight weeks’ service without issue "should be considered proof of a storm weathered”

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634827#Comment_122634827

Read the whole article, don't just pull one sentence out.

Also without even reading it do you think it is plausible that the Adjudicator stated that he didn't molest anyone for 8 weeks he will never molest anyone again?

I am shocked at the view from the WRC that an employee who remains 8 weeks free from a sexual assault conviction is essentially reformed and no longer a risk-

What is the probability of your interpretation being accurate?

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633776#Comment_122633776

This ^^^ 100%

Senior management in companies the size ALDI with HR experience and legal advice are not fools, but many WRC adjudicators are fools. The ALDI management knew they had a problem, they knew they could fall foul of a pedantic fool in the WRC and they had the courage and conviction to act anyway.

Potentially they may well have also saved themselves a fortune too. Imagine a civil case against them if this (excuse for a) man had assaulted an ALDI employee and it emerged management knew of the conviction and did not act.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635560#Comment_122635560

Good post.

ELM327

As Aldi I would cost this up as 5k well spent, like some others have already said.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635495#Comment_122635495

I'll ask the question again, what is your understanding or interpretation of the following statement -

the eight weeks’ service without issue "should be considered proof of a storm weathered

The 'storm weathered' would appear to be Mr Kashif's previous behaviour of sexually assaulting a colleague in his previous employment.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635884#Comment_122635884

With respect. It's your understanding that is the problem, not mine.

Go back and read my previous post again.

hawley

I would have thought that the people involving in recruitment would always Google a candidate. His name would have come up straight away.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634041#Comment_122634041

I would have had no issue if that guy got 6 months jail time.

I do have an issue with attitudes suggesting anyone with a criminal conviction is unemployable. What about getting a second chance etc. We would have a very dangerous society if every ex criminal was stigmatised unjustly for life.

Would it be appropriate for a certain Limerick hurlers to be immediately sacked from his employment and never get an opportunity to work again ?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635946#Comment_122635946

No it wouldn't have, as he had committed the crime at the stage he was first employed by Aldi.

The RTE article is badly written, or the reporter who filed it wrote it badly.

Mr Kashif, who was employed by the supermarket group between November 2021 and his termination in February 2023, working around 35 hours a week on average -- but was also working two or three shifts a month at a fast food restaurant, the tribunal heard.

The company’s barrister, Kiwana Ennis BL, appearing instructed by Vincent and Beatty Solicitors, submitted that Mr Kashif had "pleaded guilty to a charge of sexual assault of a female colleague at a separate employment" in court on 20 December 2022.

The victim appeared to waive her right to anonymity after the trial.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633724#Comment_122633724

A suspended custodial sentence and no sex registrar for Mohammed Kashif, ridiculous, the victim should bring a case for damages against him, will this victim get talked about in The Dail

Aldi were right, employees and customers need to be safe

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633724#Comment_122633724

But he's an unemployed a-hole now.

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638603#Comment_122638603

If he is unemployed now, he's reduced his chances of getting another job as a result of the publicity that he's brought upon himself by deciding to get revenge on Aldi for firing him. It smacks of arrogance on his part.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633976#Comment_122633976

No matter how long in Ireland, he should be deported with citizenship revoked imo

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635946#Comment_122635946

When I did his name initially I got one watered down story but not the other.

And he was already hired on and working when the court sentencing came down from the sound of it, and he told his employer, possibly not even linking the direct manager to a version of the story online.

Francie Barrett

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/sexual-assault-victims-horror-as-attacker-gets-5k-from-aldi-for-unfair-dismissal/a1823405068.html

The victim of his sexual assault has waived her right to anonymity to come forward. She didn't get the justice she deserved, but at least the name and photo of this pervert have been widely distributed.

Backstreet Moyes

Is their any reason why he cannot be deported?

I mean it's fairly obvious from that article that he thinks he has the right to feel up women and he will do it again.

If he can be deported then he should be as he is a danger to women.

ejmaztec

He's cooked his goose now because people know even more about him, and there's even a nice photo of the perv. I bet he regrets going after Aldi now, the gobsh1te.

The best thing he can do now is toddle off to the UK, he might find something to do there, and they can put up with his antics.