Why do people charge a PHEV in public

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This discussion was created from comments split from:

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CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615408#Comment_122615408

At the one and only DC charger in Enniscorthy I've seen PHEV's parking in the CCS spot blocking it completely and then stringing their AC cable over to the side of the charger to plug it in…

denismc

I think some the newer PHEVs have 50kW DC charging, nothing wrong with them using DC chargers in that case.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616213#Comment_122616213

Maybe. What's the point of PHEV?

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616233#Comment_122616233

This is exactly the point, buy a Bev if you're going to use public chargers, all you're doing is occupying infrastructure that someone else needs more. I think it was in Italy I saw a sign at a chargepoint that said no hybrids, a bit of common sense being applied.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616213#Comment_122616213

The Outlander PHEV had DC charging from day 1, was a great addition to a PHEV

You're right there's PHEVs now that have DC charging and around 20kWh batteries. They're a great idea for 2018 😜

MrMusician18

A phev doesn't make sense using a public charger from an economic perspective. Public charging is so expensive that it makes more sense to run on petrol than electricity.

It's only when you have access to cheap domestic electricity does it make sense to plug in

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616379#Comment_122616379

It definitely doesn’t make sense if you have any value on your time. In terms of cost though it’s probably about the same as petrol. As PHEV’s get bigger batteries it’s probably going to become more prevalent. Just another reason to avoid public chargers if you can.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616528#Comment_122616528

But this is it. You buy a PHEV so you don't have to stop and thus no range anxiety. Stopping at a public charger makes no sense.

It's like buying a diesel with 1000km+ range and only putting €5 worth of fuel in it everytime on a 1000km+ journey.

The only place it makes sense to charge a PHEV is at home.

Or am I missing something.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616657#Comment_122616657

You’re 100% correct but you’re average PHEV driver may think they are saving a few Polar Bears every time they plug in..,,

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616657#Comment_122616657

Correct but some folks are absolute bellends. I won't use public chargers for my PHEV. Cable is still in its wrapper.

redlead

I don't agree with the notion that PHEVs are entitled to charge as much as anyone and all that's needed is more chargers. It's like a 20 stone rich man taking the last donut when there is a starving poor child standing behind him. Sure he'll enjoy it and it will give him a bit energy but he would have been just fine without it. They should be banned from them.

Most PHEV drivers have common sense and don't do this but there are so many of them being sold now that there is a sizeable minority eejits clogging them up.

mackerski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616657#Comment_122616657

I think what you are missing is that drivers stop and park for all kinds of reasons, even if their battery isn't empty. To shop, to eat, to have a wee wee. And if you have a chance to plug in while doing all that, then, the price of electrons permitting, it may make sense to do so.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122624095#Comment_122624095

Fair point. What price points would the electricity and petrol need to be at for your theory to add up ? I know of 2 drivers that recently got PHEV’s as company cars to replace diesels. They generally plug in at work but not on the road. Price isn’t a factor as they have fuel cards.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122624095#Comment_122624095

"...May make sense..." Can you explain how?

That drivers stop isn't in question. The question is why would a PHEV plug in.

kaahooters

it has a port to charge, its a public charger, its there money, go back to your nimby hole.

loopymum

I have a hatred of phevs since I waited an hour at Kinsale roundabout in Cork for range rover hybrid monstrosity to get off the charger while he dicked around. Dpd ban on the other charger

micks_address

is the comment more about why would you public charge a phev as petrol/diesel is probably cheaper? or at least not much in it price wise..

Hurrache

I've a PHEV. I've used a public charger once in an empty carpark one morning, I didn't have to pay.

But as long as I do pay for it everyone who thinks I shouldn't be using one can go and **** off with themselves.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616657#Comment_122616657

PHEV drivers won't stop during long distance runs to charge. Where you will find them using public chargers is while shopping. I've a sibling who does this to go to the next bigger town to go shopping so they can drive there and back on electricity.

phill106

I have had a phev for about 4 years now. I charge every time i can at home, soon as i get out of car, plug it in.

if i am out and about though, I only would use public charging in two cases.

1. Its free
2. Where i am parking has a charger and again i pay no extra for it.

Barring those instances, its more cost efficient to use petrol and my home electricity.

freddieot

I have a PHEV. Never charged it publicly as i have solar at home and its more cost effective. PHEV is ideal for me as nearly all my runs are fairly local.

Looking at changing now and deciding between another PHEV or full electric. Interesting to hear all the comments on this forum. Some EV drivers like to give the impression that it only takes them 15 or 20 minutes of a stop in order to charge up, i.e EV is brilliant, can't understand why everyone else does not get one.

However, when any issue comes up for discussion, like the PHEV public charging, then its all about the waiting for an hour and other delays. I suspect this is more like the real world experience.

Obviously there still is a major public charging problem, even in 2024. Personally, I've now decided to opt for another PHEV as my next change. I was actually very pro EV when I started researching on line and checking these forums but between the negative talk around depreciation and the charging issues, I'm going to leave full EV for another 3 or 4 years and see if things stabilise or improve.

positron

At Dundrum shopping centre today and I foolishly assumed I might be able to top up the car a bit while I am here (after the two hours crawling in traffic getting here this morning). But no - the two charging spots are taken up by an ID4 and a BMW 330 hybrid. Both not charging. ID4 has solid green light. And the BMW doesn't even have that (no lights). They were there at 12 pm, and are still there at 2 pm last time I checked. This is why we can't have good things.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625580#Comment_122625580

Just to say on this - the solid green light might be charging. I've a Skoda Enyaq and when I plug in, the light goes solid green.

There's also another 11 charging spaces in Dundrum (13 in total). Most are in the red car park though.

I have an EV & I don't get caught up on what car is charging. I go up to a space, if it's full & someone is charging, fair enough they got there before me. I don't get the massive issue. Having an EV doesn't entitle you to the charging. And maybe those people with the PHEV's don't have chargers at home & want to top up.

positron

I don't have and ID4, so I googled what solid green mean - but I could be wrong:

Flashing white LED light: Preparing for charging. Solid white LED light: No active charging function. Pulsing green LED light: High-voltage battery is being charged. Solid green LED light: Charging process successfully completed.

Anyways, no entitlements requested. Blocking a facility (not using, just blocking) is bad form and I do have a problem with it. It's basic social responsibility.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122624852#Comment_122624852

So you don't know why either.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625695#Comment_122625695

You don't know why blocking a charger not charging is an issue. Really?

Cyrus

Maybe the owner regrets not going for a BEV and wants to avoid putting fuel in the complex and useless engine they are dragging around…..

josip

I have never seen a 330e charging, either at home or in the wild.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625467#Comment_122625467

Yes but WHY. It's costing them more than just using the engine.

It's like driving out of your way, past petrol stations to get to the most expensive pump, the most expensive fuel. Then only holding the nozzle about 5% open and taking 3 hours to fill up the car. Blocking anyone else at the pump.

Meanwhile you can get the same fuel at your house for 10 times cheaper.

Makes no sense.

Flinty997

The only solution is massive overstay fees and parking fees once past the overstay time. Because someone not charging has to be massively fined, as does someone talking the mick.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626009#Comment_122626009

It makes sense if it's someone else paying for it. Some of the hybrids are low tax company cars. It might be a green-minded driver who wants to save the bears, as long as it's on the company's dime.

mackerski

Driving on electricity is enjoyable, better for the environment and, potentially, cheaper. So if a PHEV driver has a chance to charge and the price of the electrons is at least as attractive as petrol then it’s a done deal. I personally drive a BEV. Would I be dismayed to be prevented from charging by a PHEV? Yes, but they are putting their money down just as I am. If I need the charge, a BEV driver plugging in with 70% charge is being just as rude as a PHEV driver, if we choose to consider it rudeness. Frankly, I don’t think a lot of the EVs plugging in in Dundrum are doing so with flat batteries, so for me, it’s a free energy market. If your car plugs in then you are entitled to plug it in, and, at least in a shopping centre, nobody is displacing anybody in greater need.

Buffman

It's not to save money anyway. I did the 'real world' calculations back when I last had an Outlander, using eCars AC PAYG pricing as an example as they're amongst the 'cheapest'. Excluding free charging, roughly speaking it hasn't been cheaper to charge publicly since they charged €0.27/kWh back a long time ago. At their current price of 0.52/kWh, petrol would roughly have to be up over €2.50/l to make it cheaper.

I realise the Outlander is an 'old' technology big lump of SUV and those figures depend a lot on driving type, but I really can't see any other PHEV being different enough on either propulsion efficiency to throw off the calculations substantially. If anyone has any 'real world' examples of it being cheaper to pay for public charging than fuel, please share.

So when I see PHEVs on paid public chargers, I assume the owner doesn't have a clue or care that it's actually costing them more, the same type of people who believed Toyota's 'self-charging' HEV sales pitch meant they never had to put any fuel in the vehicle.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625730#Comment_122625730

Sorry the entitlements wasn't aimed at you directly so apologies if it came across that way. If you google Enyaq it says the same but mine just stays solid green when it's charging. You don't know when they finished charging though & how soon after you saw the car that they came back. I agree about blocking a space needlessly - had it recently where a car was pulled in & just had the plug (fast charger) hanging over the back, not even attempted to plug in. To be honest, I took it to use as I needed to fast charge & it literally wasn't in use at all (even per the app).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625971#Comment_122625971

So am I blocking a charger when I've been charging, the charging completes but I haven't made it back immediately to move my car? If it's not a fast charger or at a motorway services & they have been using the charger, I don't see the issue.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625730#Comment_122625730

If the BMW is locked the light will be off, if its a newish x5 it has a 24kwh battery, newish 2 series 16 kwh, newish 3/5 series then 12 kwh, all charge at 3.6 kw.

Very optimistic to assume you'll find a free charger, 13 of them in a 3000 space car park.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626168#Comment_122626168

"So am I blocking a charger when … the charging completes "

Yes. Sitting in a charger while not charging, is not charging. Its parking.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626021#Comment_122626021

If they aren't personally paying for charging, I assume they aren't paying for fuel either.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625501#Comment_122625501

Yes it slips out every now and again, some of them, have a diesel for the long trips or just don't go anywhere beyond the range of their car,

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626030#Comment_122626030

"That" is the reason for the overstay charge. No?

You've no idea if someone's rocking up with 5% charge.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626168#Comment_122626168

Just ignore them, I thank you for your honest and calm attitude.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626297#Comment_122626297

Ok but how long to allow for someone to return to their car when it completes? Because you don't know when it completed - could be 2 hours ago, could have been 2 minutes earlier. Person could be making their way there. Are people meant to stay sitting in their cars so they can move the minute it finishes? Because that is unrealistic for all except the fast chargers.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626346#Comment_122626346

If it's a PHEV, there is no need to public charge, especially as there are no savings to be made. The PHEV driver is "entitled" to use the public charger, but as there is no need, or real benefit, all they are doing is blocking a charge point for someone who might actually need it.

It's kinda like the folks with a disabled driver badge who park in the disabled spot at the supermarket and sit there while their healthy and able partner, or kid goes to the shop. Yeah, the driver with the badge is still entitled top park there, but as they are just going to sit in the car, they definitely didn't need to park there and are just taking up a spot for someone who might actually need it.

positron

Replying to witchgirl26: Fair point. Does most cars let owners know when the charging is complete? At least it will show some estimate when they plug in?

Well, in any case, these two cars were still there at 5 pm as I was leaving. They couldn't give a fcuk about anyone else.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626002#Comment_122626002

I had a 530e and charged it every single day. And still used petrol. That's why I got rid of it for full EV

Never once charged the PHEV publicly and didn't even know how to use them when I first had full EV

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625730#Comment_122625730

Have an id4 solid green light means charging.. at 7kwh that id4 could be all day charging so can't be complaining

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626346#Comment_122626346

Not sure if this is a windup. The inability to read the time, and be late everywhere is not an excuse.

An EV literally tells you when it's going to be finished charging. Regardless of fast or slow charger.

"...Overstay fee of €0.50 per minute applies after 45 minutes on Fast and High Power chargers and after 10 hours on Standard chargers. (Max overstay fee: €22.50)..."

No different to overstaying in a car park.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625501#Comment_122625501

You know how approx long an EV is going to take to charge based on the battery size and the charging rate. The overstay rate is based on this.

It's not guesswork. If someone is being misled by "impressions" they've simply not done even the minimum of effort to look this up. Social media generation, unable to filter facts from fiction.

Doesn't matter how many chargers they have if someone parks in them all and blocks them. If someone parks across someone's driveway all day, it's hardly the fault of the car trapped on the drive.

This is why I expect fines and fees will only increase.

Flinty997

In short the question asked by the thread title is why would a Phev use a public chargers. There really hasn't been one viable answer to that.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122627465#Comment_122627465

It's not cost, it's not time, but a viable answer would be to keep emissions down, although I doubt that's at the forefront of people's minds.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122627481#Comment_122627481

I could see that in day London where's there a ULEZ. But even there a modern ICE is allowed. So it's not really valid there either.

I just can't see someone playing high fees to charge an PHEV at a public charger to save on emissions.

Most of the time these are parked long in excess of the time need to charge a battery. Studies and statistics seem to back that up.

Even with something like the new superb with 20kw useable and 11kw/50kw charging. Why would you use a public charger at expensive rates. Still makes little sense.