The Substance

El Duda

https://twitter.com/TheMovieBadger/status/1835656210323800219

One of the best reviewed horrors of the year hits cinemas this weekend

Starring Demi Moore & Margaret Qualley

Basq

Been looking forward to this.. heard it's properly nauseating but great fun!

Kermode gave it a glowing review.

It's gonna divide audiences big time.

Mad to see it get a 16 rating here.

johnny_ultimate

Caught one of the recent previews and found it a frustratingly uneven watch.

As absurd, unpleasant body horror, the film is often vividly directly and entertainingly grotesque (though it should be noted the single-most most disgusting image in the film are close-up shots of Dennis Quaid eating prawns). As Revenge proved, Fargeat knows how to put together an arresting image - and The Substance is no different, with an endless parade of amusingly garish and OTT visual choices, plus some endearingly extravagant set & art design. You can't fault Moore and Qualley for absolute committment to the bit.

But man, the satire is so thin and one-note it really starts to grate after a while. I get that there's a fine line between shallow and broad, but I think this one is more of the former than the latter. If it was a tight 90 minutes, maybe it would've gotten away with it. But even with a third act that takes some wild swings (sometimes effective, sometimes just silly), there's just not enough here to sustain 140 minutes. Everything it has to say it establishes immediately, and while there is of course much pleasure in seeing the body horror unfold as outrageously as it does here, there's also an awful lot of repetition in between the good stuff (a lot of it largely set in a single apartment).

At a certain point, you also have to start questioning whether the film is guilty of some of the very same things it's meant to be critiquing - the leery nature of the camera is certainly a 'choice'. Its take on Hollywood is also so cartoonish and anachronistic it lacks any sort of bite. It exists in such an exaggerated unreality that it also inevitably has little of the character or narrative tension of, say, Cronenberg's The Fly.

Again, credit where credit is due - it's big, it's bold, it's sometimes disgusting. It has two great performances and is overall a trip worth taking. But it's also numbing and one-note, and all the nasty body horror effects in the world can't add… ahem… substance to a premise this flimsy.

Padraig Mor

Saw this today. Huge dose of Cronenberg via Dorian Gray and - especially - Starry Eyes (well worth a look in the quite likely event you ain't seen it). Really very good, with a disturbing soundtrack - until a completely unnecessary gross out final reel which just elicits laughter and derision, as well as swelling its runtime to 140 minutes. Cut out the last 20 minutes and this is a very fine psychological body horror indeed.

I'm astonished this got a 16 rating here though - while the extensive nudity is non sexual in nature, there is a hell of a lot of gore, as well as a couple of VERY hard hitting violent scenes (shades of Starry Eyes here too - those who know, know!) complete with characters displaying will to live, that I thought would be pushing it even at an 18 rating.

gdaviesb

I think a 16 rating is fine, maybe at the higher end but even all the disgusting bits are just OTT "gross-out" humour and not played straight.

plus the satirical/blackly comic context of everything, which progressively gets more squishy and silly.

"Violence might be intensely depicted and may include some gory imagery."

"Strong horror and sustained threat may be acceptable, but will not include the strongest images of sadism and torture."

This definitely isn't at the level of nasty slasher/torture horror at the full 18 rating - I've seen recent examples include a disembowelment by table saw, head exploded by shotgun, a woman forced to dismember her own leg with razor wire, a paralyzed man being slowly dismembered in a wood-chipper while he's still alive etc.

I'd say (The Substance) at the lower end of the UK's 18, if only earned for the sheer quantity of gore and close-up focus on injury.

so a more flexible borderline cert in Ireland fits okay, bearing in mind they've an extra 15A the UK doesn't have for tamer 15's.

For reference it has the same 16 rating in Germany and New Zealand.

JP Liz V1

Demi Moore name is thrown around as an Oscar contender for this

sporina

won't be watching that - i'm become v v sensitive with age grr

Irish Aris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644186#Comment_122644186

I know the Oscars love a comeback story, I would be very surprised though if this made it anywhere near. Don't get me wrong, both Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley are very good in their roles. Just that the last 30 or so minutes are very grotesque - and in my opinion unnecessary as they don't really add anything to the commentary that Coralie Fargeat makes. Granted, this wouldn't be a genre I'm a fan of (other than some Cronenberg) and I'm not really in the target audience. But I thought there was a great opportunity around 30-40 minutes before the end to close the film nicely, though a bit ambiguously - apologies not sure how to put spoilers, so I won't say more. Great production though, and the music adding to the overall anxiety.

Space Dog

I haven't seen The Substance yet, but yeah, a nomination for Moore isn't happening. It's proper horror and too "out there" for the Academy, even if they've become more adventurous with Parasite and EEAAO. Toni Collette, Lupita Nyong'o, Florence Pugh, Willem Dafoe, Essie Davis and Mia Goth all had Oscar buzz for "elevated" horror movies in recent years and didn't get nominated.

Hande hoche!

Interesting film. Agree with those noting the run time, could have easily shaved off 20/30 minutes. The multiple walking down corridor shots were excessive (her home/ workplace/ substance collection point). Very committed performances from Qualley and Moore. Also Quaid had fun with his role.

Reminds me of Neon demon, Starry Eyes (good call by the above poster) and Titane. Body horror with an emphasis on the body.

El Duda

The Substance - 9.5/10

The Substance is f*cked in the best way possible. I kept looking at my watch, but in a good way, thinking "f*ck me, there's another X amount of minutes left!" wondering how much further they could push it, and it just kept going and going and going. It's mental. The sound design is phenomenal. 

It's Death Becomes Her meets The Nutty Professor, but by way of David Cronenberg/Brian Yuzna. 

A proper throwback to the Video Nasty / VHS rental era. Wholesome squelchy goodness.  

Also full of t!ts and arses.

ECookie13

Definitely needed about 40/30 minutes trimmed off it, as it repeated over the same scenarios a few times and some scenes just dragged on. The ending was a bit unusual and went on far too long in all honesty. Saw a lot of people down the cinema checking the time on their phones about 2/3s in, which showed they likely thought the same.

Good film, more comedic than I expected going in, but the Oscar calls are ridiculous, the prosthetics and costume design are the only things that should be considered for an Oscar.

A decent 7/10 film, a single watch and not a classic.

Muppet Man

I saw it this evening. Thought Demi Moore was absolutely brilliant in this and ironically looked amazing. I haven’t seen a horror movie in years to be honest and I really enjoyed the first two thirds of the movie and as others have said there was a good opportunity to end it then. I didn’t think it was too grotesque at all. The final third was absolutely unnecessary and it was almost like a different writer / director took over. There were people giggling and laughing in the cinema when the lights came up at the end. Mixed feelings on it overall. I suppose 7/10 for me. Might have been more if it wasn’t for the final third of the movie. IMHO.

Homelander

An absolute masterpiece in my opinion, and it's far more than just a video nasty throwback, it really has something worthwhile to say.

The ending really isn't random in my opinion at all, but a natural conclusion to what's happening throughout, and a reflection on the cycle of getting older/too old > get shunned or loss of interest > get surgery to appear younger > take it too far > get ridiculed and shunned again.

Demi Moore gives the performance of a lifetime, and it's really a movie that would David and Brandon Cronenberg sitting up in their seats thinking "Damn, that's some deep body horror".

Easy 5/5 from me. This and Brandon Cronenberg's Possessor Uncut from a few years back are two of the finest body horror movies of the past few decades.

ancapailldorcha

It really could have done with having 20-30 minutes lopped off it towards the end. That said, it's excellent. I'm glad I caught this before it left cinemas. I was surprised at the amount of nudity in it but it's a very well put together film which starts to fall apart at the end.

Shelga

I saw this last night, like other people I thought it was absolutely mental but in a good way! Have been thinking about it all morning which can only be a good thing. The worst thing a movie can be is forgettable.

I like how the ending going on and on and getting more and more insane mirrors the main character’s inability to stop harming herself, long after the bad outweighs the good.

dulpit

Saw this. Not sure what to make of it. Very good performances from both leads (and fair play to them too). The ending absolutely ruined it for me though, completely unnecessary and, like others said, you could feel the energy in the cinema drop off once it got so silly. Far too long, a better edit and a better ending would have made this an excellent movie.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122682617#Comment_122682617

Same here. There were people laughing in the last sequence which felt like a real shame given how well the film made its point until then.

It's one of those films where I don't think the specific ending matters a great detail once the theme is explored properly.

mrsdewinter

Absolutely bonkers movie that was far too long. Body horror really isn't my thing, but I was willing to put up with a lot in the interests of a movie that had something insightful to say about society. As it turned out, the body horror was bearable. It was just a pity that the look at contemporary values was so shrill and had to be hammered home. I can see why Demi Moore and Dennis Quaid wanted to work with this hot, French director - and both they and Margaret Qualley did a great job - but every single point was laboured to the point of collapse. All the same, that climactic third act will remain with me for some time.

McFly85

Saw it today, absolutely loved it. Throughout the film the themes were handled with all the deftness of a sledgehammer so it earned that bonkers last act.

Demi Moore was fantastic in particular but Qualley and Quaid played their parts well too.

Almost 2 and a half hours and I found it absolutely flew by. My only regret is not seeing it sooner in a more packed screen. A completely unique cinema experience I won’t forget any time soon.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122682617#Comment_122682617

Don’t agree about the ending as I think it was necessary to emphasise the point that the audience, representing both business and general public are also responsible for the creation of the “monster” with demands of women retaking their youth and beauty.

This point could not bacd been made if film had ended earlier as many thought it had when a particular event happened.
I really enjoys this. I think it’s Demi Moore’s finest performance and I wonder is she’s in a with a chance if an Oscar shout.
Also Dennis Quaid eating shrimp for me was the hardest part to watch which made all the body horror scenes after place into insignificance.
Film was beautifully shot too with some great colour palettes and transitions.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122690788#Comment_122690788

I agree about the shrimp eating scene. Horrific.

I'd be astounded if there was an Oscar nomination here though. Performances were good but not Oscar worthy.

Buddy Bubs

Just about to watch it now after finding this thread

Buddy Bubs

Would make an excellent episode of black mirror wouldn't it. Requiem for a dream vibes too, although not as dark as that just yet I'm an hour in.

I sense this getting very dark and twisted as it heads to it's conclusion though

Mrs Shuttleworth

Saw this at the weekend and it's both outstanding and outrageous. I got serious Paul Verhoeven vibes here alongside the more obvious Cronenberg.

Thelonious Monk

Saw it on Saturday. Still haunted by Monstro Elisasue. The most f**ked up film I've ever seen, hands down.

smurf492

Completely let down by the last half hour... enjoyed it as a satire of the beauty industry and how celebrity is so fickle around being beautiful... Too much pre release talk about the body horror aspect of the movie which I didn't find bad compared to some of the more extreme gore films released over the years

ShagNastii

Watched it this evening. Really loved it but the ending was complete and utter pish.

The setting, videography and writing were absolutely on the button. Engaged me wholly.

I hate how movies like it can’t avoid that one step too many that makes the whole thing farcical and OTT in a bad way.

Basq

Just finished it myself.. agree with others, they really ruined in with that cheap ending.

Demi was really excellent throughout though. Not that she can be too picky these days, but it's a ballsy movie.

Impressed me for the most part but "Monstro Elisasue" was unnecessary.

~Rebel~

On the ending… I dunno… it definitely is a big extra leap, but at the same time it's kind of the big bombastic thesis statement of the whole film so I can understand its inclusion.

Buddy Bubs

It turned into the fly at the end! Good film though

Monstro ElizaSue Brundlefly

CliffHangeroner

Watched this last night and really enjoyed the ending. The acting from all involved was superb but Moore in particular was a standout.

Space Dog

I loved this. I found it hilarious that a US prime time family TV show would show topless women, you could tell the director is French!

Sleepy

The first two thirds of this were excellent but sadly the ending was laughably bad. Nevermind the absurdity of the monster, stupid details like the dancers on a US network TV New Years special all being topless are jarring and take you out of the moment.

It's a real shame because from the beautiful opening montage of the Hollywood Walk of Fame Star to Moore's excellent performance there was a really fantastic film in this that ends up feeling like it was finished out by a 10 year old boy on a bring your kids to work day…

Yvonne007

I might be alone but I am of the opinion that people are Under-Thinking the ending.

It was meant to be absurd. The whole premise was absurd. It brought it to an absurd ending. It doubled down and spat in your face at how mental the whole concept is.

Its so strange to see people say, "well…. the ending was so over the top" when they literally saw a woman being born out of another woman's back during the part they thought was plausible.

I loved every part of it.

Banjaxed82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721364#Comment_122721364

Spot on. Amazing film. For a film that thoughtful, clever and intentioned, to suddenly "just go mad" in the final act would be the absurd idea. Director in complete control from start to finish.

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722617#Comment_122722617

Thank god!!!!!!!!🤣

Fysh

I finally got to see this tonight, and largely enjoyed it. I did feel the third act was a step down from what went before, not because it went absurd but because for me it felt like it didn't do enough with it - although in saying that, it mostly won me back at the very end with the supremely Society-like development on the pavement 😆 but really, once we've had the

Spoiler Warning

Monstro ElisaSue as Brundlefly reveal, having her turn up to try and do the show and then just... spray blood everywhere while being yelled at, as if Sam Raimi had turned up to guest-direct a scene, felt like a bit of a damp squib, har har.

I think there's a tonal shift as it progresses that it doesn't quite manage - Moore gives a great performance as someone struggling with being pushed out of her job just because she's aging, but aside from the scene where she second-guesses herself out of going for dinner with Fred we don't see much of what the day to day toll of those pressures are doing to her, and adding something of them in the early part of the film might have helped provide a contrast to the later developments.

I don't know that I'd rewatch it in its existing form again; it could do with losing 10-15 minutes towards the end, (and probably another 15 from the earlier parts too). A pet peeve of mine is films that beat you over the head with repeated lines of dialogue, and the film really goes to town with them in a way where I understand the intent but for me it fell flat. But I can imagine a fanedited version that brings out the best of the film, which is ironic given the plot...

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721364#Comment_122721364

Nope, not buying that.

El Gato De Negocios

Just got done watching it. Thought it was ok, Demi was really great in what was a brave choice for an actress in her demographic (the parallel with her own life experience can't be ignored). Visually a stunning piece of film, the lurid colours, the up close shots of boob's and bums jiggling, all very deliberate. Qualley as Sue (Andie McDowells daughter) was brilliant and Quaid was delightfully sleazy.

The ending fit the overall OTT nature of the movie but as far as body horror goes, it pales (imo) in comparison to the likes of Videodrome, The Fly or Society.

Still, the effects work was top notch and I've a real soft spot for practical effects. Not something I can ever see myself watching again but a decent watch.

6/10

The White Wolf

I feel beaten to death after that. Not sure if that's good or bad.

cena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122731412#Comment_122731412

I felt the same way. I didn't enjoy watching the other taking the fuild from the spine over and over

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122731424#Comment_122731424

Sorry but you go see a body horror and you're bothered by that? Is that all you took from the film?

dubstepper

Very enjoyable movie until the last 20. It does somewhat redeem itself with the final scene before the credits, which I really liked.

Dennis Quaid is great and may be the grossest thing in it.

neirbloom

It's now available on Mubi for anyone who didn't catch it in the cinema along with Revenge her first feature..

Potatoeman

I really enjoyed it but like many here didn’t enjoy the last twenty minutes. The gore wasn’t well done, it wasn’t realistic enough even though earlier parts of the film were. Old films like the thing or hellraiser have better effects than this. The blood scene looked like they used an actual hose. It was just retelling the same story over again so it added absolutely nothing to the movie. I get it was being surreal but it wasn’t done well at all.

JP Liz V1

Golden Globes Nominated

Motion Picture – Musical or Comedy

The Substance

Best Female Actor in a Musical or Comedy

The Substance