Daughters first car, Ideas?

septictank

That time has arrived, Provisional licence in pocket and a small car is needed to start off in.

Few questions.

For cheap Insurance is there a big difference between a 1L and 1.1,1.2,1.4 and are there Makes that have bad names form the point of Boy racers, and being stolen? Will be on parents insurence at the start.

Best way to check if the car is financed, loan still being payed?

Finally with a budget of 3-4K, what's her options.

It will be a low millage car as goes to work on public transport. Dublin based, weekend driving until full licence. Even then won't be high millage but has friends down the country so some motorway driving will come in to it.

The usual Yaris, Polo, Fiesta, Ka, clio, 208, 500, have been looked at on line but no tyre kicking yet. A mid to high trim would be nice, so Ideas?

ebbsy

Good luck with this.

I remember the young lads first car……..its a terrible country for young people starting out.

daheff

if shes on the parents car insurance for the moment, then why not leave it like that until she gets her full license? Not like she can go driving anywhere without a full license driver until she passes anyways? worry about her first car when she gets the license

alan partridge aha

1.0 Yaris all day long, with at least Luna spec. You might get a mk3 at that price.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058369235/daughters-first-car-ideas

A couple of things:

1. Engine size is less of an issue these days as it was in the past. With many small engined cars now having turbos, there is less of a relationship between engine size and power. Much more important, from an insurers point of view, will be whether the car has automatic braking.
   
2. From your post, it seems as if you intend to insure your daughters car on one of her parents names first. That isn't allowed and can/will be noticed by the insurance company.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122622453#Comment_122622453

Nonsense post. The very reason they ask you the model is to determine the engine.

If the parent registers the car in his /her own name, then names the child on insurance, there's also no issue

paddydriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623150#Comment_122623150

It's pointless then as parent has to start building a 2nd NCB.. may as well just start the child on their own policy. Buy the 2nd hand car - register in the childs name and have them as main driver and parents as named drivers.

Buying a 2nd car in childs name and then having parent as main driver and child as named, when intention is that child will be main driver, is illegal - thinks its called "fronting". Even if 2nd car bought and registered in parents name, and parent as main driver, when intention is to have child drive the car is same.

hoodie6029

VW UP!/ Seat Mii/ Skoda Citigo. Great to learn and build experience in and decent handling, peppy little car too. I drove about a dozen hires ones at one stage.
Definitely worth a test drive

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623227#Comment_122623227

Agree with first part of your post, but from the OP's post, car will be used on weekends by the child(as they take public transport to work) and some trips down the country,it's hard to determine if that could be called fronting. As always, a quick call to the Insurer with the above details will give proper clarity.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623150#Comment_122623150

The OP specifically asked, "is there a big difference between a 1L and 1.1,1.2,1.4….?", presumably because in the past, insurers would refuse to insure L drivers on cars above 1.4L for example, which was maybe around 90bhp. With turbos, and hybrid, a 1.4 can be up to 250bhp, so there is little point in limiting your search to engine size alone.

A "2.0" Golf can range from insurance Group 16 to 39.

Notice how I carefully qualified my post by saying it "seems as if you intend". Those three words mean that I am not making any absolute statements.

In response you say my post is "nonsense" and that it's "no issue", but then immediately roll back on that in your next post by saying "it's hard to determine" and suggest calling the insured. Which it is?!

Fronting is very obvious to insurers, especially when a new car is coming into the household, the L drivers is being put on the insurance, but isn't the main driver.

septictank

Just to clear things, she's buying the car but we thought to put her on my wifes insurence driving the wife's car. My Daughter just passed the theory test, told us she wants to learn to drive in a smaller car than ours and for it to be hers.

Wife could insure a small car and have the daughter (25) as named driver for about €500 just for the first year.

Thanks for the feed back, keep it coming please.

septictank

So a small car with AEB for 3-4K (wriggle room) would lower Insurance. VW UP has that (Some models) but would limit the search a bit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623320#Comment_122623320

Had a quick look around, VW are coming in around 6K, Skoda, only 1 or 2, more 5K and very basic looking, 1 or 2 Seat around the 4K+ but tend to be "Sport" trim, 75hp models, but I'd say sport will get the insurance people a bit excited.

septictank

The OP specifically asked, "is there a big difference between a 1L and 1.1,1.2,1.4….?",

I just thought as a learner car would be the best option. Also the 1.1 Clio is Ethanol/Petrol not sure what the story is there, can use either? 1.1 is not the norm, it's a Renault I know.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623880#Comment_122623880

I think the 75hp was the most common model sold new here.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623681#Comment_122623681

IMO insurers are very good at assuming fronting when it's not the case. In my case I have a 7 seater which I dont need most of the time so bought a Model 3 for myself and transferred my insurance over to it. A couple of months later I took out a new insurance policy to put 7 seater back on the road for the summer as the 6 of us would be travelling together regularly.

I asked to name my 18 yo on the new policy as he wants to learn on a manual. Insurer said no as it would be fronting and in reality my 18 yo L driver school kid would be the main driver. That's just rubbish as he's an L driver and would only drive it when I'm accompanying him. Insurance in this country want their cake and eat it in my experience. Its almost feels like you have to crawl on bended knees begging for their generosity.

sligopaul

We have one ( 19 yr old with 1 year on full license ) on own policy and a 17 year old on learner permit. The 19 year old was a grand with a 16 year old clio with its for women ( He's male by the way ) . The 17 year old we did some time on the Aviva learner school thing which is great, they unfortunately are not interested thereafter and gave ridiculous quotes . We moved to Allianz for a grand on a Merc B class ( my wifes car) and waiting for test and named driver.

For cars we had a Corsa ( against my better judgement ) was terrible and reaffirmed belief not to touch Opel again and then the Clio, so far that has done the job, both were well looked after. Watch for rust on older imports, yes its still a thing

To add I would probably go with the Yaris if I was to do again

8mv

Our daughters learned and passed in a Vauxhall Adam - tiny car but still the most reliable car we've had. I still use it at weekends

witchgirl26

Just on the insurance part - my friend had it worked the way you're looking at it while I had my own (different job stages when we were learning in our mid-20s). While I was getting NCB from the start & building that up, hers, as a named driver only, was only worth about half I think at the time.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623745#Comment_122623745

The issue is that you'll be asked to identify the main driver of the car. If you name your wife when your daughter is actually the main driver, that is fraudulent and puts the whole policy at risk.

They'll also be asking if the main driver is insured on any other car. If your wife is insured as the main driver on her own car at present, a second 'main driver' situation will raise some questions.

Uncle Pierre

There are many things I don't agree with @AndrewJRenko about, but I was just about to make basically the same point as he does above.

If this new car is to be insured in your wife's name and with your daughter as a named driver, then you're essentially saying that your wife will be the main driver of the car. It doesn't matter that your daughter will only be doing low mileage - unless your wife uses that car to do more mileage, then your daughter is still its main driver.

And even if your wife decides "right, whenever the daughter comes back from doing ten miles, I'll go out and do eleven", then questions are still likely to arise if your wife is already named as main driver on a policy on her own car. Why does she need a Yaris/Polo/Fiesta/Ka/Clio/etc. as well as the car she already has?

Better way to go would probably be insured in your daughter's name, and with you and your wife as named drivers. Will be more expensive to begin with, but your daughter's NCB will build up much more quickly, and you should see a significant drop in renewal prices over the coming few years.

AndrewJRenko

Honestly, there's also the question as to why any learner will need their own car in this kind of family situation. They need to have one of the adults in the house with them for all their driving, so if both of the parents have their own car, why not use that existing car, rather than buying a new car?

Is it really any harder to learn on a normal family car than on a small car?

septictank

Cheers lads, and Ladies, so the daughter will insure the car, when we get it, and wife as second.

First car that caught her eye was a Fiat 500, not what I'd recommend so have tried steering her away, something more reliable, safer, more substantial yet compact enough to make parking and those things a bit easier.

Herself and Fiance are big people so something with head room would be a bonus, 5,10' and 6,5', but he won't be in it much until her full licence, he's going through the same process licence wise.

Would like the car to have decent trim, C/L, half decent boot, can't have everything for the money I know.

sekond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625523#Comment_122625523

I was following this thread for interest because we'll likely be in a similar situation shortly - in our case we both drive electric cars (so automatic), and I'd want her learning/taking test on a manual. So, at the very least, regular access to a manual car would be needed. So I can see why you might need/want a new car.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623326#Comment_122623326

I couldn’t think of a clearer case of fronting. Off you go with your suggestions to commit criminal offences.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623745#Comment_122623745

You seem like a decent guy. Unless your wife plans on being the main driver of this car, she is commutation an offence under section 7 Criminal Justice (Theft and fraud offences) Act 2001. It is likely that it would never come to light but she is exposing herself to up to 5 years in jail as well as the likely voiding of any insurance policies she holds.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623967#Comment_122623967

Again, you focus only on his driving it. If you are not the main driver the you are fronting for him and committing various offences.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625629#Comment_122625629

All minis have good headroom - I’m 6’5” and have had three. I have found Fiestas with decent head room but had problems with Yaris. Fiat 500 headroom was ok but I have broad shoulders and problems with how they taper.

galwaytt

hard to beat a Clio as a starter car. Worked for us.

My son got first insurance in 1.4 Astra cheaper than 1.0 Polo - the engine isn't the main decider, it's the risk profile of the model.

Youfs of Today hoon about in 1.0 Starlets and Corolli Xli's. Astra 1.4…….? not cool enough.

Which was a win for us, as the one he got had full leather, heated seats, cruise control etc so it was a nice spec.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626111#Comment_122626111

It's my car which I will use for mainly long journeys with full family. Yes I will be the main driver. This is the problem with the blanket assumption of fronting.

Its all pretty theoretical in any case because unless there is a tracker on the car and some class of a fool proof method to identify who is driving who is going to prove what?? Im a named driver on my wifes car and probably clock up more miles on it that she does. My bad? I think some people love jumping down people's throat with gotchas, especially online.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626084#Comment_122626084

Who cares what you think? If you bothered to read the post, you'll see the very last line I wrote "a quick call to the insurer with the above details will give proper clarity"!! That's the important bit, they'll decide what's what, not some jumped up know it all who's suggesting I'm telling someone to commit criminal offences.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626224#Comment_122626224

not a gotcha; your original post didn’t mention your driving it at all! That’s why I brought it to your attention.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626882#Comment_122626882

Strangely enough Mr Bot (if that is what you are) the insurance company is not in a position to comment on criminal matters. I assume, as you have not rebutted it, that unlike Creedp, you do not have any additional

Information which would make it clear that you were in the clear! Carryon defrauding the rest of us by failing to pay the insurance which is due!

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122627036#Comment_122627036

Are you accusing me of something here?

blingrhino

Is there an insurance group system for cars that we can see which models are insurable as in the uk for the general public to see here ?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122632981#Comment_122632981

Presumably we use the same tier list as the UK

septictank

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122632989#Comment_122632989

Do we I wonder, the VRT rules here are very harsh on the smallest of things, not just engine size but if a model has a sun roof, or leather seats, any extras and the price goes up.

Is there a spreadsheet or something you can put the model into to get the insurance rating?

Thanks for all the input guys, anyone spot anything nice online under 4K that might start a discussion on the car or things to watch out for.

Spotted this 2011 Corsa, not my first choice but this "Stunning" car is well buffed up, looks to have a lot of scratches and touch ups.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/stunning-2011-opel-corsa-1-0-petrol-nct-tax-2025/37951610

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633283#Comment_122633283

What does VRT have to do with insurance?

septictank

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633498#Comment_122633498

Just saying we use the smallest of reasons to penalise financially here, I wouldn't be surprised if insurance was handled in the same way. For years Irish car insurance was much more expensive than in the UK, apparently it's evened out more recently.

oinkely

Imagine something as transparent as an insurance group listing for all cars published by the insurance industry in Ireland - it would be brillaint - at least you would know that x car is going to be a lower risk than Y car and shop accordingly. Obviously your personal circumstances will impact the premium, but to know something as basic as where the particular cars sits in the hierarchy would be really useful for Joe and Josephine public when looking for a car. Especially in this case.

So yeah - not going to happen I would imagine, as it would be open and transparent. And lets face it, there is 0 transparency in insurance in this country - may be the same the world over, but i only have experience of here to go by.

Hope you find a decent first car for your daughter OP and manage to get it insured for a reasonable sum.

Core6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625736#Comment_122625736

My daughter is learning to drive. Her instructor, who has a manual car, asked her about the cars at home. My daughter said that they were both automatic but one was going to be changed to get a manual.

The instructor told her that was a mistake and go for an automatic :- easier to drive (might have been a comment on my daughter's clutch control!!), easier to pass the test in and that automatics are becoming much more prevalent now.

Looking at secondhand cars — all Jap imports are automatic and, of course, all hybrids and EVs are automatic.

We did sell one of the automatics as it was too big for a learner and bought a smaller automatic (actually an EV).

My daughter is using the EV to practice in and getting instructed on an automatic.

DrPsychia

Corolla hatchback hybrid would be a nice car. I believe the hybrids came in 2015+. Or Yaris hybrid if budget allows.

septictank

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633793#Comment_122633793

Bit out of budget, would be a perfect 2nd car though. Never know, like if the right car came up at the right price you'd be a fool not to jump at it.

jt69er

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633649#Comment_122633649

Is it not the case that if you pass your test in a manual car you are covered to drive both manual and automatic but if you pass the test in an automatic you are covered for automatic only?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634722#Comment_122634722

Correct. Pass the test in an automatic, only licensed to drive an automatic.

Eggs For Dinner

Just to chip in on the OP's comment that there will be some motorway driving intended. You should note that learner permit holders are not allowed drive on motorways, even with a qualified driver.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122632981#Comment_122632981

That we don't tells you all you need to about car insurance in Ireland. It's a rip off,b and they try to hide it so it's not obvious.

leex

Purchased a car for my son 2 years ago. I used one of the online insurance company quote sites to narrow down car options at time. I think it was Allianz. Was a very useful exercise. Engine sizes, fuel type etc showed a very wide spread of prices.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626111#Comment_122626111

how many people are prosecuted annually for this relatively common offence?


**not saying i agree or disagree with this proposal.

Red Sheds

My daughter is 17, on her learner permit. We went for a Peugeot 308 1.6 diesel, with a nice trim. She insured it in her own policy with us as named drivers for the about €100 more than what she would have paid for a 1.0 litre Yaris or Polo. It has the black box speed recorder installed on it. We went for this car as its the same size roughly as a Golf, so it gives a bit more protection if anything happens and the 1.6 diesel is great for a learner, having that extra bit of power at start off when at lights, or hill starts, making it easier for them. Bigger size too than the smaller cars inside.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635586#Comment_122635586

A better question would be - how many people are declined insurance annually because of fronting.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635873#Comment_122635873

Or how many are declined insurance because of fronting when it's not fronting. Amazing what tele-operarors can tell over the phone.