A proper fencing problem

oldsmokey

hi, we have a powerful cheetah fencer, g303…over past 6 or so months its losing power at the wire, and instead having a serious kick at the earth bars. We’re on 2000 v on the wire and 3500 at the earths..crazy. Cheetah in fairness sent us a new energiser to try..same result.

We have 7 earth bars, properly connected..correct insulated wire, galvanised bars, wetted ground, correct spacing..our tester shows around 2000 volts, and little bits of a draw here and there, nothing serious. Weve checked all over for a barbed wire earth or similar..nothing..even the cheetah guy is stumped..this evening i discovered that almost every short wire between the insulator and stake was showing 350 ish volts..how is that?..almost every one..could that be a clue to our problem?..the cheetah guy is adamant we have a bad short somewhere..id appreciate any advice..

patsy_mccabe

Can you isolate some of the fence? Disconnect half of it for example, test voltages, and then disconnect that half and connect the other half, testing again.

I found if you walk around in the dark, you will see the short sparking. A staple might have punctured those black tube type insulators.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058368896/a-proper-fencing-problem

Did you not try the Fault Finder ,surely the Chitah rep would have recomened this

Who2

I was losing power in the main fence at home and couldn’t work out what. It had a lot of the nail in insulators and I found the crows were sitting on the top of the posts and **** down onto the insulators and then in damp weather it was shorting out . I gave a spell shooting crows but in the end I changed the insulators.

Conversations 3

Are the insulator eggs bad?

You'll have to split it up to narrow it down

older by the day

I have a small bit of land rented and it was fenced with thorny wire and electric fence wire on the same posts, if they ever make contact it kills the shock, or chicken wire or sheep wire,

An under ground wire crossing a gap.

I did see an tightening insulator connected to a rail holding a gate, get tangled and killed the hole fence.

You just have to get out and walk I'm afraid

blue5000

What insulators are you using? Underground cable can be a problem as older by the day said above.

We had a problem with Bryce strainer that goes through the post, insulation wasn’t good enough, post would be live on a wet day. Disconnect each section of fence and test it as you join on a new piece.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058368896/a-proper-fencing-problem

Yes you have the problem solved. If the wire or nail going to the stake is showing 350 volts as you say everyone then it's the insulators are the problem. They are conducting voltage through them. They are not proper insulating.

oldsmokey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613339#Comment_122613339

yeah, we have a gallagher one..it only shows small draw everywhere..nothing decent like 10amps..its whats driving us mad..

oldsmokey

we can split it in two…and each half is as bad as the other…it seems incredible that all the insulators are bad…the worst by far seem to be the white plastic type..even fairly new ones..gallagher ..and the white plastic fitted to the ratchet insulator..

cute geoge

Disconnect the nearest section of wire and get that up to the 10000 volts and work along it ,it even maybe your lead out cable at fault

oldsmokey

thanks..we’ve disconnected all the underground wires…and the faultfinder shows no big draw…we might go out at dark, see if anywthing shows up…

oldsmokey

seems incredible though…

oldsmokey

All gallagher insulators…like a lot of gallagher stuff, they seem to be shyte…the white plastic lads are worst

50HX

Set up a short run even on polywire

Connect a new out wire to this only

If you've same issue get a loan of another fencer plug in & see.

If you still have issue then your earthing is drawing

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615552#Comment_122615552

Do this as said above but also disconnect the output from the fencing unit and test the output reading from the fencer unit itself

MIKEKC

Had some white egg insulators ( they are about 30 years old). The developed cracks I believe from the sun. They would short when wet .Changed them all no problem since

hopeso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615359#Comment_122615359

White plastic is useless for anything outdoors….. Are you using the egg shaped insulators on all posts? It's just that in the first post you mention the short wire between the insulator and post. As 'Say my name' said above, there should be no reading from the wire between the insulator and post. If you're using these insulators on a lot of posts, then the draw from them all is bound to add up…..

Mad about baa baas

Had a similar problem here..theres was current in all the posts and the galvanised water troughs..we put in an extra couple of earth rods which improved things slightly..in the end we changed to the low output wire..our cheetah fencer has 3 options and had been on high..we still have enough current going through the wire but its not reaching through the insulators to the posts..mainly black screw in type insulators here..

jd06

SSimilar problems here, went to cheetah and he gave me a mains fencer and converted it to a battery 12v fencer. So I got a good car battery and checked all the sections, it was very handy because I had the power of a mains but it was mobile,

It turned out to be a gate handle that was seized up and wasn't transferring the power but it also wSnt showing a fault iykwim .

The mobile fencer was a good idea to be fair and so simple, h

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623336#Comment_122623336

Why don't cheetah sell such a fencer? PITA trimming for battery fencer line on a second part of the farm. Any bit of earthing kills the battery fencers.

oldsmokey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615552#Comment_122615552

cheetah sent us a brand new energiser to try..no change in the problem..

oldsmokey

well that’s interesting..we’ll try it..thanks

50HX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623661#Comment_122623661

Have you isolated a short run of fence wire?

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623813#Comment_122623813

I think he's clutching at straws to be honest he's been told what todo on here to check the fencer it's obviously not the fault of the fencer the farmer needs to follow a straightforward plan to solve this. But isn't doing so

oldsmokey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626839#Comment_122626839

i beg to differ..weve tried extra earths, isolating sections, new energiser, disconnecting buried sections, and walking the place with a faultfinder…so I’d really appreciate your straightforward plan to sort this in a hurry sir..

50HX

Did you set up 50 mtrs of new wire ( not existing that gas been checked) & isolate to that?

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122631712#Comment_122631712

Exactly have you done as above have you done as I've suggested firstly if you have come back to me it's very straightforward to diagnose fence problems and often can be something that's very silly looking in hindsight but will drive you nuts until you find it 😉

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122631505#Comment_122631505

green daries

I will lay it out in a step by step plan when you've tried what I and 50 have recommended 👌 👍👍

green daries

And in a hurry is usually the problem

adne

• Try your fencer on a neighbor's farm. Rules out fencer as issue
• Try neighbors fencer on you farm. Rules out earth rods as issue
• Try 20 new metres of line on existing posts and insulators. Rules out issue with posts or insulators
• If issue still exists at this point it's somewhere on your wire so you can focus on that

oldsmokey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623813#Comment_122623813

hi…its next thing to do..what exactly will that eliminate/exclude..Ive tried a new energiser..thanks

oldsmokey

hi, thanks for that.. cheetah sent a new energiser..made no difference..massive earth bar voltage, poor wire voltage. So our energiser is ok..
maybe its worth repeating…Ive been all over the place with faultfinder..very little draw..apart from almost every insulator leaking maybe 200 volts to the strainer..

Is that cumulative leak enough to brin* the system to its knees.?can almost every insulator in the place be defective?..

50HX

Op....Some people love torture, you've been given repeated advise & options on what to do, of them is to isolate your existing wire

I'm moving on from here, since everyday is a school day 😉 let us know when you find the fault

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635035#Comment_122635035

Plus one on this one pity I enjoy getting fences working

Cattlepen

I wouldn’t agree that Gallagher stuff is shite. I find their black W insulators the best. I fix them on posts with screws so no chance of damage by hammer. Very odd one might break but nothing major

oldsmokey

hi, sorry, been busy..will run that 50m of wire and see how it goes..thanks for all the replies..

Bass Reeves

If you can isolate section maybe down to field size, use a good strong battery fencer and see do you get different voltages on different sections.

oldsmokey

hi, well isolated around 50m and hooked up the fencer…the earth was down to 700v, the wire read only5000v..should be in excess of 9000 v for that little run..i noticed my leadout cable wasn’t the heaviest..would that affect the output?ta

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698646#Comment_122698646

Disconnect the output lead from the fencer unit( leave the earth connected) and test the output of the unit itself and tell us the reading did you run a new piece of fence completely separate to the other fence or isolated a piece of the original one

hopeso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698646#Comment_122698646

The leadout cable could be damaged underground, and earthing on something. You could disconnect the old leadout cable, and just run a new one along the ground out to the fence to see it that improves things

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122700758#Comment_122700758

Ideally lead out and underground gate cables should be inside a water pipe, mistake lads make is using old pile that is damaged as if anything happens to lead it then earth's.

ruwithme

Assume much of your wire is steel? That beast would destroy poly wire quick.

Would almost need to be touching steel wire somewhere that is going to the ground to be killing a energiser so well earthed.

Poor insulators on their own wouldn't be enough I believe. Water in a underground gateway pipe carrying cable that is perished??

Danny healy ray

lads is there some nack is hammering a staple into timber dura posts I'm using pel insulted pipe lengths

wrangler

I don't think that testing an earth is as simple as putting the tester on the earth bar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fq2gfV1vQk

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702623#Comment_122702623

Ya the earth bar if reading high is just telling you you've got serious issues

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698646#Comment_122698646

Wherever your earth bar and it should be earth bars is put a hose in it over night and see will what the reading are afterwards.

The way to check an earth is drive another earth bar a bit away connect on a wire properly onto it. Your resistance between the two earth's should be 5 ohms or less. However that is without either being wet. After a dry summer a bad earth will always show up.

Did you try to isolate a paddock and check with a battery fencer. Somehow I suspect you have a bad earth. If the fencer is in a cattle shed measure the resistance from the earth to the RSJ's make sure its a good clean spot ( drill a small hole 3mm) on the rsj again it's should be less than 5 ohms as yous RSJ's should be earthed

oldsmokey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698773#Comment_122698773

hi, i used an existing run, isolated to only the 50 metres..nothing else tapped into that 50m …used existing earth..

oldsmokey

hi, thanks, all wire here, no poly…it certainly appears that theres the helluva short somewhere, but after a lotta time, have failed to find it…it should be really apparent, with a visible spark and or noisy crack…

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058368896/a-proper-fencing-problem

shouldn’t be a shock at the earth

fence may have been hit by lightning and is now useless

stanflt

get a loan of a neighbours fencer and hook it up to see if it is fecked