BVD problem

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: No quitten we're whelan on to chitchat 11.

funkey_monkey

Just seen that 6kcharolais on TikTok got caught with a bvd positive calf that tested negative from a large farm. Story is a dodgy vet helped fiddle its sample. He lost 7 calves because of it and no effect of the originating farm.

carrollsno1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593134#Comment_122593134

Saw that earlier alright they were suggesting anyone buying in stock now should get it independently tested how would that work i wonder?

Odelay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593134#Comment_122593134

What would it be worth to a vet to fiddle a sample? A serious payment would need to be made to risk losing their reputation.

I says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593286#Comment_122593286

The mental health card will be played early and often no doubt. Twould sicken yer hole.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593286#Comment_122593286

I don't see where a vet's role would be in bvd sampling?

Farmer usually does it themselves and sends it off in the envelope to the lab. Farmer would have no idea of the status till the result came back in first place.

Sounds like a scattergun approach of accusations and seeing if something sticks.

Anto_Meath

@Say my name as someone who had a case of bvd in 2023 I can't understand how a vet would have anything to do with it. You take you sample & send it off. If it's positive that's when your vet get involved. & there is no discussion or anything with AHI once you have a positive. They ring you, write to you & text you everyday warning you that you have so many days to get rid of the animal for week after the animal test positive. They treaten to stop your single farm payment if you don't get rid of the animal with ten days. So there is much messing anyone can do.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593356#Comment_122593356

Tag was positive. Vet test was negative allowing it to be sold for breeding presumably for a higher price. Tested again on buyers farm as positive.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122594670#Comment_122594670

That would be madness. Then it takes all sorts. Can it be said, every test is 100% accurate?

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122594687#Comment_122594687

Apparently multiple instances and multiple gets infected. All with same vet taking the samples.

funkey_monkey

...

Water John

This person isn't just saying the tests were fiddled, he's saying that there was an official cover up.

Lime Tree Farm

Could there be different labs involved here, think back to Hep C and Cervical Smear testing labs scandals.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122594710#Comment_122594710

I think he is saying both. The calf tissue sample was positive. A vet was sent out to do a blood test. The vet took the blood sample from a different animal. The same vet had done this on multiple occasions. Dept don't want to know about it despite the same scenario occurring for multiple buyers from the same herd.

That's my reading of it.

Anto_Meath

There is no re-testing of an animal allowed now; if an animal has a positive ear sample now it"s destroyed.. well that what I was told in 2023.

893bet

very hard to prove at this point. Fiddle in everything.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595127#Comment_122595127

The originally bought-in calf must of went in-calf and was a pi i reckon, and infected naive cows in the herd when they where in-calf…

Obviously when the herd had a break-down this cow was identified as a p.i bvd animal, the other cows/heifers where t.i animals, its a different kind of c**t that would doctor a bvd positive calf and sell it on

whelan2

Pricks prolonging the whole bvd testing gravy train on everyone else

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595222#Comment_122595222

From the post, pregnant cow picked up bvd off the bought in heifer. It got transferred to her calf that way.

Presume the other 6 or culled calves were the same.

whelan2

Anyone know where the originating herd is, would it be in my area?

Anto_Meath

@whelan2 it sounds like something like that. Whatever farm it is its a very serious allegation.. but you would think if this heifer was on its original farm for a period of time then there would be a number of positive ear samples the following year.

One positive sample on a farm it maybe able to fudge but the department would get very suspicious if there was some every year & then coming clear on a retest.

I know when I had 1 case (2023) there was a full trace of where it may have came from. The department informed me the likely source was a parcel of land beside me that is rented to a cull cow finishing feedlot. Seemingly they bought 9 cows from a farm were there were a few cases in the spring of 2022. They were of the opinion that my cow must have come in contact ( across the ditch & drain) with 1 of those 9 cows that must have been a PI.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595070#Comment_122595070

That's my understanding too. Is the affected herd in the Republic? There's an inconsistent element to the whole story. Vets don't retest BVD positives, in fact, you're expressly prohibited from retesting a PI. Full stop.

Nopoints

Until recently there was an option of retesting postive animals. It had to be done by a vet that had Bvd training course done. It had to be a blood sample, nothing in place to confirm sample was from correct animal. Get it?

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595814#Comment_122595814

Until recently postive animals were allowed to be tested a second time by blood sample by a vet. In this case it was the farms owns vet, multiple postive animals were tested a second time all went clear on blood test by same vet, and multiple Herds infected after they were sold By the to dept knew was going on it was yrs later, chose to sweep it under the rug, quietly change the rules to one test only, hopefully no one notice

whelan2

You'd have to wonder what the vet would gain out of this. If the animals were positive and sold on it would come back to them at some stage

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596059#Comment_122596059

Weren't supposed to be sold, someone got greedy, decided to chance it. Some animals make several thousand only get 200 if it's put down

Anto_Meath

@Nopoints I understand what is alleged to have happened. But I can't understand any vet knowingly doing it. It would be more than his job would be worth if the department decided to suspend him.

Secondly if a number of positive animals were on a farm for a year by the nature of the disease the following years herd could be infected. It not a risk I could see any farm taking...

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596144#Comment_122596144

Won't be suspended, dodgy tb testing case was dropped after being intimidated. Positive animals were kept separate inHerd until sold as weanling hfrs. Lot more I could say, when the time is right. They want to sweep everything under the rug when their system fails or it's one of their own profession. Someone on this thread trying to deny it, alledgy is a vet

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596182#Comment_122596182

When you make an accusation…the time is right to qualify it. Unless you move to qualify your accusations, what you've said is complete hearsay. If ever there's a reason people get away with wrongdoing, it's because people won't qualify their accusations. You're unfair to the vet on here.

Nopoints

You'd be surprised what I have in writing

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596205#Comment_122596205

Unfair? Why did he hand over 6grand in cash to keep the bvd quiet? How is tb testing done over the phone? Or is just someone pretending to do it?

148multi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596182#Comment_122596182

Surely if a calf gets bvd and is kept until a weanling, at the very least it will infect it's mother, am nearly sure that I read somewhere that one bvd case going through a mart will infect a thousand cattle in the mart.

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596281#Comment_122596281

Sold at special sale, all animals from same Herd, if animal comes in contact with it after it's born it will only be positive for a few wks, if that animal is in calf, the calf will always be positive after it's born

whelan2

What about the farmer? Wtf was he doing selling them when he knew there'd be repercussions

Anto_Meath

@Nopoints, I obviously know nothing about this case or any of the individuals involved. If what is been alleged to have happened did happened then it is a terrible. I know how my 1 case was dealt with and as a farmer felt very angry that I was made feel it was my fault when taking to anyone in AHI, (not that there was anyone really to talk to, just a receptionist who kept repeating the current ruels to any questions i asked) I was also annoyed that I wasn't allowed retest the calf, he was from a 3rd calving cows & the previous two were ok.

I know my vet and I am on very good terms with him (family friend) but I also know he takes his profession extremely seriously and wouldn't tolerate any messing. Everything he does is firstly for the good of the animal he is treating & secondly would be for the good of your herd. So I am totally shocked / amazed that any vet would act in any other way.

greysides

The OP says "calf". Without checking I know that at least for 2023 and 2024 there has been no retesting of positives permitted. Hence without being privy to the full facts I am a bit leery of what's being said.

But, so there's no doubt, if the story is true, then both farmer and vet have sabotaged an important National disease eradication programme and deserve the full force of the law.

Given the current testing it's hard to see how anyone could possibly expect for it not to come to light and for all concerned to be under the spotlight as regards their actions.

In fact, given the suggested scale, I would expect it to come to light, and not just on social media.

funkey_monkey

@greysides i took down the screen grabs but it said this was in 2021.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596240#Comment_122596240

Why not surprise us?

Anto_Meath

If it was 2021 the heifer would have been sold in that autumn or the following years sale, so would likey have only had her calf in 2023 / 2024 and that's why it's only coming to light now.. if this can be proven I would guess it will cause issues for all involved.

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596434#Comment_122596434

Sold in 2020, Herd that bought it had first ever positives in 2021, ya won't hear a thing about it

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596464#Comment_122596464

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596464#Comment_122596464

Why?

greysides

That timing makes more sense alright.

Anto_Meath

While the time would add up how it could be done.

How did they manage to keep it to one case or is there multiple cases on the farm & if so the charge to no retest since 2023 would show up many cases. I think you can't sell heifers for breeding for a year if you had a case in your herd. So there would have been no sale of heifers in 2023.

While the theory of it adds up and people can be right pricks just to make a few euro the practicality of it with the limited knowledge I have of the virus seem impossible to enable.

If there was an animal(s) in a herd infecting other incalf cows meaning a multiple amount calves infected. That would be impossible to control or cover up you would imagine.

Like I was told my cow must have picked it up from a cow in a neighbouring field, either by direct contact, airborne or transferred by birds or wild animals that had direct contact with the infected animal & my cow. Or if my cow was in the Mart for any time during the middle 6 months she was pregnant.

So how did this farm control all those things without have numerous outbreaks.

patsy_mccabe

Was the original herd in Co. <mod snip>?

Edited there now Who2 and rightly so, apparently.

Who2

it’s unfair to put that up patsy, while I don’t agree with what has been done there seems to be a lot of people automatically blaming. Until all sides are heard I think everything should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596844#Comment_122596844

They want it seen that the system failed, they know well it was fraud, won't cross their own profession when it comes to it

Nopoints

Don't want it seen system failed

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597057#Comment_122597057

Double figure postives, didn't loose negative health status which meant they could trade normally without restrictions. If anyone can explain that I'd like to know. Seems to be different rules for different people depending who ya know.

Nopoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597255#Comment_122597255

It's impossible to take a negative bvd blood sample from a persistently infected animal, yet this magical procedure was done at least six times on the same farm by the same person. Well all be waiting a while for the other side to explain that.

Anto_Meath

@Nopoints you obviously have first hand knowledge of the situation.. it is a terrible situation. They put their whole business at risk for what in the overall context would be only small money.

I could understand the switch to have a negative blood result thus keeping their negative herd status. But then keeping the animal and selling it for breeding was stupid, foolish & greedy.

Wonder what are they doing since 2023 when retest were done away with...

Sheep breeder

There always ways of getting a sample to suit, back in the day of scrapie testing there was a breeder in the north who had a sheep that was the correct genotype and it was said when he entered the field the sheep ran over to him and held up his neck to sample, where there’s a will there’s away.