Is prejudice against Britishness in Ireland considered racism, sectarianism, or something else?

cryptocurrency

I’m an Irish-born person who grew up in the UK, and now that I’m living and working in Ireland, I’ve noticed that my British accent and mannerisms sometimes lead to prejudice, judgment, or even dislike. Despite being Irish, people seem to react to me as though I'm an outsider because of my "Britishness."The experience is often subtle and nuanced, but sometimes it’s much more overt. It has even led me to advise UK-based friends in similar situations to give serious consideration before "moving home," as it’s something they may not expect to encounter.I’m trying to understand how to categorise this type of experience. Is it considered racism, sectarianism, or something else? It doesn’t seem like racism in the traditional sense, but the dislike or suspicion seems tied to my perceived cultural identity rather than religion.Has anyone else experienced this, or does anyone have insights into how this kind of prejudice is defined?

Quantum Erasure

It's considered the norm

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593622#Comment_122593622

So you acknowledge that this is a normal occurrence

Jim_Hodge

I have to say I haven't noticed myself but if that's your experience then there must be something somewhere. It there is a prejudice just because you're British then it's racism pure and simple; just as prejudice against an Irish person in Britain would be racism. So your definition is simple. Racism is discrimination and prejudice against people based on their race or ethnicity.

Whether the racism you refer to is real or not is another question.

Electric Nitwit

I'm the same, OP, born and bred in London, Irish dad (and I have an obviously Irish name), now living here

The prejudice is definitely a thing, though I haven't experienced anything too bad. But I'm an Ireland season ticket holder that didn't go to the match yesterday, as I knew my accent could be taken the wrong way, I wouldn't go and order a pint in the Auld Triangle. There's plenty of examples

Personally I wouldn't class it as racism, I think it's a lot less pernicious than that. I'd say it's more akin to a sporting rivalry taken to another level. The way Bohs and Rovers fans "hate" each other, it's a general idea but doesn't generally carry over to an individual level. Or Liverpool-United, Germany-Netherlands, Australia-New Zealand... national negativity is, I think, common around the world

Now, the history of British oppression here obviously takes it to another level, but no sensible person here blames any individual Brit for the famine, or partition. The history leads to a broad dislike/mistrust of the idea of Britishness though, which definitely affects initial interactions. Then there's some people who are just pricks, and they'll take it too far. But I think those same people would often be similar about "others" from Cork/Dublin/the country etc

In general though, I feel very accepted and settled here. Don't know how long you've been here, but hopefully you'll feel the same soon

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593705#Comment_122593705

This is quite an amazing answer and one I am not at all surprised by. We have this tendency here to great things that doesn't sit well with disbelief and dismissal. You define it as racism yet call into question it it even happens, which to be honest is a daming inditement really. Of course it happens, and is very common, your refusal to believe or accept it is really half the problem and just confirms to me that is something that is deep, really deep. Your post has confirmed to me that this is something that may be many many decades away from being even remotely softened now. Thanks.

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593738#Comment_122593738

There has been very little engagement on the subject matter here, we've had one comment making light of it happening, the other commented that they are skeptical that it even happens, and yourself, who've lived it, monitors your behaviour to avoid it happening. I think this thread demonstrates it is very much a thing. I would also argue the area of the UK you were raised can really make the thing much worse or better. For me, Surrey, and that for many, is an unacceptable "level of englishness".

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593742#Comment_122593742

I think you've completely misread what I meant to say. I said I hadn't noticed it but accepted you may have. I clearly said that if it happens it is a form of racism. I did question if the perceived dislike is real: as in if it stems from someone having a British accent or some other reason. I'm sorry you read it as you did. That was not my intention by any means, I can assure you. So, I'll leave you to it in case I offend you any further.

ledwithhedwith

Hard to know if it’s just people not enjoying your personality. Because the way you are talking would annoy me , but it isn’t cos you are British.

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593750#Comment_122593750

It all comes down to one thing. It can be anything, from ordering a sandwich at a deli counter and getting audible sighs from people behind you — just a few words can trigger a stranger, someone I hardly know. Or, being aggressively told by a stranger, 'You sound like a landlord, that's what you do.' So, your hint at another reason simply doesn't hold up. Even the color of trousers or a reference to a particular sport can trigger some people.

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593757#Comment_122593757

I don't see myself being in any way offensive

Electric Nitwit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593748#Comment_122593748

Well, the lack of engagement might be that you posted at 4am 😋

You're probably right about the area of England counting (and I think we can limit it to England, I don't think Scots and Welsh would receive the same reaction)

And I'm very aware it's a personal thing, so don't mean to diminish what you say by asking, but do you find it to be more extreme than what you'd expect to receive in Scotland, or even the likes of Newcastle/Liverpool based on your Southerness?

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593771#Comment_122593771

that’s fair enough , you don’t have to be offensive for people not to like you though.

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593775#Comment_122593775

I don't swear, and try to go to great lengths soften language in my communications, and may use words that can be viewed as not that common. I am sure there is people who don't like me from the off because of that. I do check myself and sometimes try to express myself to make my words fit

cryptocurrency

Not really, Not that I noticed, I have not spent much time in the North. Where I have been in Scotland, It was fine.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593771#Comment_122593771

Well, your tone in response to well intentioned replies says otherwise and that has nothing to do with being perceived as British.

Electric Nitwit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593784#Comment_122593784

You've done nothing wrong, I'd ignore them

Dogsdodogsstuff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593738#Comment_122593738

There was a lot of English supporting Ireland Ireland games in Japan in WC 2002. I met some, Dermot Gallagher included and we loved having them there. A fair few were actually just English fans who preferred the fun and safety that came with supporting Irish teams and didn’t like the drama/baggage that followed England back then.

I was also at the 95 abandoned game, but I think the animosity between fans/teams is nothing like what it was, it’s far less aggressive and more “nice to get one over them”. It’s a real shame you felt you couldn’t goto the game , while I’d say you’d of been fine, I get your reluctance.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593766#Comment_122593766

Racism is terrible but the above doesn't count as racism .

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593784#Comment_122593784

yeah just your tone on this thread has been very abrasive from the get go. I don’t think you’d be my type of personality which is fine but maybe some of your encounters are just down to that. Or maybe they are all solely because you are British. Hard to know really.

Lewis_Benson

The same gobahytes who are anti brit, will also support British football teams, rocking into work of a Monday morning stating that "we won the cup at the weekend"

Gobshytes.

cryptocurrency

I believe my situation is just the canary in the coal mine of a broader issue. There is a subconscious perception, even among the most ordinary Irish people, about someone's Irishness and their right to have opinions on Irish matters, whether it's about the GAA or politics. The UK has many issues too, but I don’t think people are in denial there; many openly hold bad views.

For example, I have a friend of West African descent, an engineer—a very skilled one. He spent years being overlooked at work and wasn’t given the recognition his obvious technical expertise deserved. He asked for my advice, and I suggested he move to London. He and his wife went, and within two years, they were buying a new home in Essex, and he had become a senior associate at a national engineering consultancy. The same industry here in Ireland is nowhere near that level of opportunity. Even our public service is a shockingly poor reflection of our society.

Electric Nitwit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593786#Comment_122593786

Fair enough. That probably suggests you've experienced worse than me in Ireland

It's unfortunate, but as Lewis says above, those people are just gobshytes. As much as possible I'd say you just have to ignore it and live your life.

Charlo30

Ah, another Irish bashing thread. Never gets old.🥱

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593833#Comment_122593833

we are all racist now father!

Akrasia

Its not just the fact that you're British, its that you appear to sound like you're 'upper class' British and Irish people tend to be the opposite of English people when it comes to deferring to class.

If you were talking in a really strong Southside Dublin accent people might sigh just as hard when you order your sandwich

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593831#Comment_122593831

It's not easy when it's your first day in a new role. This situation weighed heavily on my mind due to a recent experience that I couldn’t simply ignore. I made my decision quickly and am actively working on removing myself from the situation in the coming weeks. I work in a specialized and growing field, and while I'm new to this organization, I have decades of global experience in this area. I think my mix of confidence, enthusiasm, directness on a subject I have comprehensive knowledge of, my accent (quite noticeably), and perhaps some corporate jargon, seems to have caused some ridicule and laughter from day one, during the first meeting. I won’t be staying long in this role; there are plenty of other opportunities for me, and in the multinational environments where I usually work, this has never been an issue.

dxhound2005

The prejudice against Protestant citizens of NI and Scotland is secterianism. Against English citizens not secterianism. Not racism either, as they are no more a race than Americans or French.

Dogsdodogsstuff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593851#Comment_122593851

I’m sighing at the very thought of a person with a strong south side accent.

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593860#Comment_122593860

So what is it, in your opinion

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593863#Comment_122593863

Something to do with soccer.

cryptocurrency

Do you like to spin every topic that way

Discodog

I am the same as the OP. Born in Ireland but raised in the UK. Generally it's not a problem but every now & then it surfaces to surprise me. The classic example was a judge, regarding a driving offence, who admonished me by saying you're not in England now. It would of been very differently if they had said Africa instead of England.

I am British born of Irish parents. Been living here 25years. Don't feel much prejudice myself and find most people take you as you are.

However, here's an observation - the British and epecially the English tend to exude a superior condescending air from every pore of the body which is easily spotted and instantly turns people against them. There is a subtle level of verbal negotiation which needs to happen to establish that this isn't you. Do that and even the most ardent anti-British republican will generally calm down and treat you for the person you are.

So in my estimation the onus as a Brit is on you to convey the fact your not a superior prick.

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593927#Comment_122593927

and would you hazard a guess to say op has exuded this air of condescension. I would lol

BrianD3

It's not just because you have an English accent, it's because you're different or "posh". If you use "big words" when speaking, even worse.

People are conformist, tribal, parochial and judgmental. it's a natural human weakness but it may be particularly pronounced in this country. We are not a friendly people and many of us bully using the guise of slagging

Also, re: judging others, here's a sketch from The Savage Eye. See how the Kerry lad perceives the Dublin lad? That's what many people think when they hear an English accent. They also think that English people are judging them the way that the Dublin lad is judging the Kerry lad. Maybe they are.

https://youtu.be/-kahnb3qnm0

Montage of Feck

Maybe leave the monocle and bowler hat at home.

EmmetSpiceland

Casual sectarianism has been on the rise for a good while now. It’s been stoked by the likes of Blind Boy Boat Club, the Irish Simpsons Fan Page on Facebook, r/Ireland on Reddit and others, like Tadhg Hickey.

They’re trying to hoodwink the youth of this country, those too young to remember what SF/IRA were up to, into thinking it’s harmless to chant ‘oh ah up the Ra’ at a Wolfe Tone’s show and that Gerry Adams is some soft teddy bear on Twitter, all while taking shots at “de Brits”.

Capt'n Midnight

There's a lot of Irish towns where Irish newcomers are still considered blow-ins thirty years later.

Discodog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593959#Comment_122593959

I was in a pub, in the West of Ireland, & a bunch of young lands were mocking my accent. Then one of them said "We don't like the English but we hate the Dubs". When I asked him why he said that the Dubs kept all the food in the famine 🙄

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593858#Comment_122593858

I think my mix of confidence, enthusiasm, directness on a subject I have comprehensive knowledge of, my accent (quite noticeably), and perhaps some corporate jargon, seems to have caused some ridicule and laughter

I'd bet money it was the enthusiasm, directness and corporate jargon that caused the laughter and ridicule. We tend to be far too laid back and cynical for that and it's very American.

Any anti-English sentiment I've witnessed has been from people most Irish people wouldn't want to associate with - skangers and the "Up the Ra" gobshites. I'm Irish though so my experience is limited, but it's sad that an English accent can still draw a negative reaction.

I like most British accents and might just ask where someone is from if I can't place it. Just don't ask me to say "thirty three and a third". 😆

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122594044#Comment_122594044

Name these towns so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122594356#Comment_122594356

My country neighbours would joke with us about us been blow in after 25years. One even said they were considered blow ins for coming from the next town. North Roscommon.

Don't think it's not real.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593802#Comment_122593802

This.

I'm dismissing the OPs post based on the part where he says he didn't go to the game yesterday because he's an Irish fan with an English accent.

I used to go to away games and tournaments for years.There were lots of Irish fans with English accents.I presumed they were all of Irish heritage with more of an interest in following us rather than engerland and most of them were.However a good number of them turned out to have no family connections to Ireland but just enjoyed following us because it was safer,good craic and a better experience all round.

Always accepted and included as much as any other fans.

Also I think the OP needs to familiarise himself with the definitions of racism.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593825#Comment_122593825

The country of 5 million people doesn't have the same opportunities as the country of 60+.

Wow you need to get this story to the Irish Times pronto.

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593891#Comment_122593891

"Generally it's not a problem but every now & then it surfaces to surprise me".

This has been my experience with my Irish relatives. What really surprises and depresses me is that it comes from almost all of them - most of whom I've known all my life.

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122594396#Comment_122594396

Considering the OP didn't mention the football or even contemplate going to it, even if given a free ticket, might have something to do with it. Try reading the thread and responding accordingly. Thanks.

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593891#Comment_122593891

Let's be honest, that is utterly disgraceful by the judge. You are correct, swap England for any other nation and it is a news story.

Strumms

never experienced any.

I worked with several people here who were British, a couple of different businesses over many years.

Never witnessed or experienced any sectarianism, racism or any negativity.

What it’s considered ? racism, sectarianism ? Doesn’t matter does it. Splitting hairs.

cryptocurrency

For me, this would not be a difficult topic to accept if someone said it happened in the UK and was fairly prevalent; it is clear that it is. However, I have found that any time this subject is brought up in Ireland, to Irish people, there is a strong sense of denial and non-acceptance. This concerns me for the future as the county develops more and becomes more diverse. There seems to be a number of societal hurdles left to face that many seem to pretend are not there.

Matchu7

Its a thing I have had some issues when I came home a number of years ago. I remember a telephone interview when the guy hung up on me with his last words being “we want a local”.

I know others who have either come home from the UK or are English and moved here and have had some issues… It’s not “bad”….but it disappoints me that there is any of it.