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Correct roundabout lane

  • 06-09-2024 6:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭


    I was wondering if anyone would please let me know which is the correct lane to use on the round about as shown. I have attached a pic of the sign and a satellite view from Google.

    Entering the roundabout from the the R407 and turning off at the second R148 for kilcock. The lanes don't have any marking except for the white yeild triangles painted on road.

    The sign shows the exit is at 12 o clock position, the exit isn't exactly 12 o clock as per satellite view.

    I was debating with a colleague that the left lane should be used to take the exit for kilcock as its at 12 o clock as per sign post. Which is what you use for guidance.

    My colleague is a Lorry driver with CPC and said you should use the right lane to enter the roundabout and exit for kilcock.

    Would really appreciate if a driving instructor or tester, garda, any professional driver or something that recently passed a road test. be able to say which lane is correct.

    Appreciate your input and feedback. 👍



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭65535


    Enter where it says R407, give way to traffic coming from your right.

    Then, when on the roundabout turn on your right indicator, stay in the right lane

    Pass the first exit, then the other entrances and 1 more exit - then just before your turnoff check the left lane, turn on your left indicator and proceed into it to exit at the orange arrow.

    Post edited by 65535 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭RonanG86


    It's so little beyond the 12 o'clock position (what is it? 12:15?) that I think take the left lane is correct.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭robclay26


    Exactly! It's a very debatable one! That's why I'm looking for the correct answer and not a person's opinion or what they would do. I see people using both lanes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I never thought that 12 o clock rule made any sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭BlakeS94


    It's not even debatable, you go by the signage for the roundabout/junction, it's stated 12 o clock, left lane entry, stay on left lane, and left lane exit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭robclay26


    Thats exactly what I was saying to my colleague! 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,127 ✭✭✭kirving


    It really depends on the traffic volumes per exit.

    If for arguments sake 80% of traffic goes towards Sligo, then the right lane would be correct.

    If 80% of traffic goes towards Dublin, then the left lane would probably be correct. Given that it's in Kildare, I would suggest that more traffic goes towards Dublin.

    Noone is out there with a protractor measuring angles, and the sign shows the exit dead on 12 o'clock, so by default I would suggest the left lane on that basis too - not that there is even any law about the clock face.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭baxterooneydoody


    I'm a lorry driver with many cpcs under my belt and if I was coming into that having never driven into it before I'd take left lane but knowing the roundabout I'd probably hit it in the right lane as most of the traffic would be heading for the motorway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,088 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    More than 2 exits away or past 12 o'clock.. right lane



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    You can't see the far side of the roundabout (or should that be oval about) as you approach it. It shouldn't depend on psychic powers, magic local knowledge or an accompanying drone to give a birds eye view of the roundabout to figure which lane one should be in. The sign shows the Kilcock exit at 12 o-clock and there's no other sinage or road markings to indicate any special lane designation so I would say to use the left lane.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Exactly this.

    Which is why 12 o clock never makes sense. It should be right lane and move left lane before your turn. Simple and robust.

    But no it's the clock rule (or best practise) and people are always asking about it.

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭GTTDI GOD


    It’s the third exit on the roundabout, right lane.


    Driving instructor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Hate roundabouts 😡



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭J_R


    Hi,

    I was a driving instructor for a wee while. Now retired. One of my favourite lessons was getting a pupil who had been driving for a few years and like you hated roundabouts. And showing them how simple they are. However might take a few lessons to work on this one attached

    Roundabouts are simple, provided basic common sense is applied. There is only one rule unique to a roundabout - when entering, turn left. All other possible situations - the basic rules of the road apply. There is no other special rule.

    And from the ROTR - the Roundabout Golden Rule

    Golden rule
    This ‘golden rule’ should help motorists to drive safely at any roundabout
    regardless of the number of exits:
    Think of the roundabout as a clock.
    If taking any exit from the 6 o’clock to the 12 o’clock position, motorists
    should generally approach in the left-hand lane.
    If taking any exit between the 12 o’clock to the 6 o’clock positions,
    motorists should generally approach in the right-hand lane.
    If there are road markings showing you what lane you should be in,
    follow those directions. Traffic conditions might sometimes mean you
    have to take a different approach but, in the main, the ‘golden rule’ will
    help you to drive safely on almost any roundabout.
    133
    Údarás Um Shábháilteacht Ar Bhóithre
    Road Safety Authority



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,514 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    roundabouts like the one in the OP, if the road isn’t busy I would take the right lane, now if the roundabout was busy I would stay in the left so I wouldn’t get stuck or have to navigate traffic to get out of my lane.

    Saying that if I didn’t know the roundabout, going by the sign I would be in the left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭J_R


    Hi,

    But it makes perfect sense. If the exit is past 12 it means that it is to the right.

    Therefore you indicate to the right and move to the right, this now allows traffic that is going straight or turning left to overtake (Undertake ?) legally on your left.

    If exit at or before you stay left and allow traffic to overtake.

    Basic idea is that you share the road - allow traffic to safely overtake.

    There was another thread on here about indicating if the first exit was at 12 0 clock. You follow the same normal rules, not too soon that it could be missinterpreted but soon enough to benefit and warn others of your intentions. So, about 9 o'clock.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    On that basis I would say always use the left lane on that roundabout if going from the R407 to the R148 Kilcock.

    Whether to take the left lane or right lane shouldn't depend on a subjective view of how heavy traffic is and a potential difference of opnion between two drivers.

    Road safety depends significantly drivers driving in a consistent and predictable manner. This needs unambiguous rules, road design and signage.

    At driving speed here's limited time to observe, comprehend and respond. If it's not obvious it's potentially dangerous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If it's a 3 lane roundabout it makes no sense.

    And a rule should work for all scenarios. It's not even in other countries afaik.

    I think it sprung out of these half assed tiny roundabouts we have so many of which are too small to change lanes on.

    Oz has similar rule and it's the cause of lots of accidents. Ireland has no stats on it afaik.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I'd tend to agree with this but that roundabout needs better lane signage. Technically it is left lane because the exit is shown at 12, but it should be designated right lane because it's the 3rd exit.

    Traffic would flow better then with 2 exits for each lane.

    Again it shows the cock up that is the clock rule, before as you say it was left for first and second exits, right for anything after. If the clock rule was applied to the walkinstown roundabout it would be a disaster.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭J_R


    Hii,

    But quite a few junction approaches have three lanes, causes no problem. Then you have multi lane highways, again no problem. Roundabouts are exactly the same, only difference the exits on roundabouts are closer together.

    And then you have directional arrows, which may well over-ride the standard rules.

    And then there is using common sense, when dealing with the traffic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭BlakeS94


    You're not supposed to change lanes while on a roundabout, there's too much happening and there's more of a chance of causing a collision while you're judging the angle of the roundabout as you're going around, cars coming off and on at multiple different junctions. Stay in the lane you started off in and exit in that lane, only time you should be going right lane to left lane is when you're exiting and you're driving across the left lane to get to your exit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭freddieot


    On larger roundabouts there is no option except to change lanes on the roundabout . That's why many of them have dotted lines in the lane divides so you can do that.

    On a large multi exit roundabout, nor the small little ones, you should always try to position yourself safely so that you can exit without interfering with other drivers. That sometimes means that after you pass several exits you need to move over to the lh lane before exiting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,389 ✭✭✭markpb


    Where does this idea come from? It’s not in the Road Traffic Acts and it’s not in the RSA’s Rules of the Road. It’s clear that traffic engineers don’t believe in it either because they routinely delineate lanes with dashed line markings, indicating that you can change lanes. I suspect it’s coming from a small bunch of driving instructors who don’t know any better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,279 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    Note the arrow on the road sign for Kilcock and Trim. It is showing straight ahead. The general rule is stay in the left lane when going straight ahead unless arrows in the lanes directs otherwise. I have always thought this so called 12 o'clock rule is ridiculous.Anyone here ever drive on the roundabout going east out of Athlone at Kilmartin's n6 Centre ? The roadsign shows Birr straight ahead, but most people drive in the right lane instead of the left because of the 12 o'clock nonsense.

    Post edited by TheRiverman on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Page 133 rules of the road.

    https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r1---rules-of-the-road/ruleoftheroad_book-for-web.pdf?sfvrsn=b5d57830_7

    Golden rule

    This ‘golden rule’ should help motorists to drive safely at any roundaboutregardless of the number of exits:Think of the roundabout as a clock. If taking any exit from the 6 o’clock to the 12 o’clock position, motoristsshould generally approach in the left-hand lane.If taking any exit between the 12 o’clock to the 6 o’clock positions,motorists should generally approach in the right-hand lane.If there are road markings showing you what lane you should be in,follow those directions. Traffic conditions might sometimes mean youhave to take a different approach but, in the main, the ‘golden rule’ will help you to drive safely on almost any roundabout.

    They say "should use the right lane for exits from 12 o'clock to 6 doesn't say you must so do they mean must or should meaning no one gives a **** what you do ?

    I've always said from 12 o clock take right lane but people don't believe me.

    One such notorious roundabout is the Merck roundabout coming out of Carlow Town heading towards Castledermot, the exit for Castledermot is clearly at the 1 O'clock position but 99% of people take it in the left lane !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,279 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    What direction is Castledermot on the roundabout road sign leading in to it ? I presume it is showing straight ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭JVince


    Can you link to anything that says that?

    Approach signage suggests left lane is the most appropriate lane to use.

    But as there's no hard and fast rules on roundabout entrance/exits, plain common sense and reasonableness also comes into play.

    Something far too many motorists lack.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Notch000


    You going to take thirds exit so definitely inside lane. I was taught during during my bike license training that 12 o'clock or beyond are for right inside lane. A lot of sign will have the exits posted otherwise at 11 O'clock or so for this reason



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭JVince


    WRONG and makes no sense whatsoever.

    Go back and retrain - you'd fail a test with that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭freddieot


    So, the key word in the rules there is 'generally'. If they meant 'must' then that is what would be written.

    While the 12 oc rule is 'generally' the best option, its not hard and fast and the driver should evaluate every individual roundabout if they have no road arrows.

    This is what



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭freddieot


    in the main, the ‘golden rule’ will help you to drive safely on almost any roundabout.

    more confusion. So, the golden rule, will not help you drive safely on some roundabouts !

    As I said before, the planners are the ones causing confusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Planners and the rules/guidelines.

    Small around near me is too small as built it's basically survival of the fittest. Two lanes entry and one lane exit. It's only low speed and congestion that stopping more accidents from happening. Very common design in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think the 12 o clock rule is terrible. Statistically it seems to causes more accidents in other countries with a similar rule. I assume because it's encourages people to blast through.

    It's a frequent question on boards, which illustrates how confused people are about it. Even in this thread People are getting the rules wrong.

    Golden rule is don't hit anything, there's no point being right according to the rules and having a collision.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I agree. There are too many poorly designed roundabouts with two lane entry that are way too small. In my view if two busses can't safely drive around the roundabout sude by side then it shouldn't have two lanes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    I would agree with you had the Rules of the Road not been changed many years ago to clock system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'd be curious to know why they were changed and since nowhere else afaik copied it, it suggests it's not seen as useful.

    It was inferred by that earlier article that similar charges were done not for safety but to improve throughput.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,088 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Where I come across these sorts of roundabouts where it's marked as 2 lane entry (even though it's a single lane right up to that point) but only wide enough for one-ish on the roundabout itself - or its one of those painted ones - I just straddle both lanes on entry. Better to control the flow of traffic on it with me than risk being sideswiped halfway through.

    May not be the "right" way, but it's often the safest.

    Here's an example in Portlaoise I'm very familar with…

    Painted narrow roundabout with 2 lanes.. the left is left only, the right straight on

    But with the painted roundabout and tight angles/junction, there's nowhere near enough room to swing around the "roundabout" while still leaving room for left turning traffic - plus a lot of cars in that left lane just drive on through anyway!

    Result: People drive over the "roundabout" and/or nearly sideswipe each other trying to merge at the other side. In fact that's what happens here with the jeep just driving over it…

    My solution above (straddle both) is far safer in that scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That's where experience and road position comes into it. You can't straddle a 3 or more lane roundabout though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭J_R


    Hi,

    The first explanation published in Ireland regarding roundabout rules used a two lane, four exit roundabout and used the exit numbers as a guide

    The second and latest guide uses the same roundabout layout but this time they use the clock face as a guide. They also used the words "should generally approach",(not "must") so these rules are open to variations.

    To guide motorists on roundabouts with numerous lanes and exits directional arrows and place names are painted on the lanes. The rule book goes on to state that these must be followed/obeyed.

    The only problem with roundabouts is that some motorists harkens back to the very basic rules when they obviously do not apply to that particular roundabout. They are superseded by the lane markings and/or configuration of that particular roundabout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Perhaps the planners shouldn't make layouts that require bespoke markings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,389 ✭✭✭markpb


    There's nothing wrong with a roundabout having mismatching numbers of entry and exit lanes. Change into the lane lane before you approach your exit and exit from there. It's much safer than attempting to exit from the inside lane anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its a problem when it's too small. They should filter it to one lane before entry instead of having that conflict on the roundabout. Again when it's too small.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    I would imagine the left lane is the correct lane, but there's a similar roundabout near me and I always use the right lane.

    People waiting at the first exit assume anyone in the left lane will be exiting at the first exit and I've had a few bum clenching moments



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,370 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    You change lanes to get to the lane beside the exit as you pass the earlier exits, otherwise you will have to cross 1 or more lanes at the last minute and you will have a car on your left, probably in your blind spot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭Buffman


    @robclay26 "My colleague is a Lorry driver with CPC and said you should use the right lane to enter the roundabout and exit for kilcock."

    Hi OP, sounds like your colleague has never driven on that junction. You can tell him that if he tries to take that exit from the right lane in a HGV in busy traffic he's almost guaranteed to be in an accident.

    The distance between the entrance from the Enfield road and the exit to the Kilcock road is not much longer than an artic, there is basically no room for maneuvering a HGV. Anyone familiar with the junction will know how busy it is. If he tried to get off from the right lane there, it's highly probable somebody will be on his left side already, probably in his blind spot, either trying to undertake or exit or having entered from the Enfield road.

    When driving a HGV or any other large vehicle (and all other vehicles to be fair) the goal is to navigate the junction safely, while giving consideration to 'rules', but not being forced into potentially dangerous maneuvers just to try to keep to the 'rules'.

    To give as much chance as possible of navigating that and other similar junction safely in a HGV/large vehicle, your best bet is to maintain possession of both lanes on the approach road and then stay in the left lane regardless of what exit you're taking, while using indicators appropriately. If you go into the right lane at a busy time (basically all the time there), you will find it extremely difficult and dangerous to get back into/through the left lane to exit.

    As anyone who drives them knows, the rules of the road don't override the laws of physics when it comes to large vehicles on small roads.

    Even in a car at busy times there, you can very easily find yourself 'stuck' in the right lane until someone lets you into the left lane, so I observe most people just stay in the left to avoid the hassle/risk.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,279 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    Unfortunately too many drivers haven't a clue, don't bother and have no interest in "reading the road". Roundabouts are not complicated and that ridiculous "12 o'clock guideline/rule" should be scrapped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    The notion of looking at a roundabout like a clock face is ridiculous.

    You have the first exit, the second exit and so on..



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