Six hurt in knife attack on bus in Germany

nachouser

What can be done?

Allinall

get a taxi.

Jim_Hodge

Are you talking about yesterday?

Police arrested a 32-year-old woman after six people were hurt in a knife attack on a bus heading to a festival in western Germany.

Authorities said on Saturday that there was no evidence of a political or religious motive.

Three of those attacked are in a life-threatening condition, police said.

The attack took place in Siegen, east of Cologne. The bus was on its way to a festival in the town and at least another 40 people were on board when the attack took place at about 7.40pm on Friday.

Police and prosecutors said the six people wounded were aged between 16 and 30 and all were from the region.

No idea what can be done. What do you think yourself?

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058367245/six-hurt-in-knife-attack-on-bus-in-germany

Ban knives in public, what's the alternative?

nachouser

.. .

Thelonious Monk

Wasn't a Muslim, no one cares

JP Liz V1

Hopefully all will be ok but stabbings are becoming the norm, it is scary, needs tougher punishment for knife crime and if found carrying one, a custodial sentence

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572403#Comment_122572403

I randomly tv'd sky news today and the banner news moving across the screen was all stabbings

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572354#Comment_122572354

Tbf this thread was only started as it wasn't a Muslim, in a tit-for-tat with those threads which are started started only because it is a Muslim.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572711#Comment_122572711

How do you know that? The OP said nothing whatsoever. I certainly didn't read it that way.

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058367245/six-hurt-in-knife-attack-on-bus-in-germany

Probably very little? I personally can not think of much.

The "tougher laws and custodial sentences" reaction is not really one I share. Partly because the majority of knife related crimes happen where the presence of a knife is legitimate so the law wouldn't help. And partly because - as someone said in the Pepper Spray thread - often only the law abiding tend to be constrained by laws.

If someone has flipped out mentally and wants to go randomly stabbing - they are unlikely to think "oh no, custodial sentences are slightly tougher this year! Best watch Netflix instead so!".

And what of people who carry knives for legitimate reasons? Maximum reach, minimal beneficial effect, laws tend not to interest me.

But really in a population of 84 million in a species where the adrenaline glands are too big and the prefrontal lobes are too small - you are going to get heinous crimes. I don't think that number can ever be zero. Being stabbed in a random public knife attack is probably around the probability of being hit by lightning and probably multitudes less than injury in traffic.

But when the media reports on a number of similar incidents in a relatively short space of time - it can feel more salient and more like a pattern to the human mind. That's why terrorism, for example, works. Or why parents were terrified of pedos in white vans.

TokTik

What can be done??

Proactive stop and search on everyone. I’d take a million whinging clowns going on about harassment/profiling over the chance of a friend or family member being stabbed to death.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573264#Comment_122573264

Proactive stop and search on everyone

On 70 odd million people daily?

You sure?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573264#Comment_122573264

Needle in a haystack stuff and a complete waste of Gardaí resources. The amount of people you'd have to stop and search would be huge.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573619#Comment_122573619

I never said search “everyone” daily. The police aren’t idiots, they know the people who hold knives. Search, arrest and have the judiciary lock them them up for a long time.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573704#Comment_122573704

I never said search “everyone” daily.

You did yeah.

Proactive stop and search on everyone

I added the daily, because it would be pointless otherwise.

2Greyfoxes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572354#Comment_122572354

if that were the case why is this thread here?

It is horrid, really scary to see the increase in random Knife attacks.

It is something that little can be done against, we ban knives then other things will be used.

Honestly the best policy I think is to get to the root of why this is happening, which I think may be tied to all the social decline we are seeing. Poverty, cost of living, people feeling alienated, no real social cohesion, etc.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574844#Comment_122574844

i think the point of the thread was to show that no one gives a f**k about these things unless it's done by immigrants. as you can see the thread never took off, it would be dozens of pages long by now if it was an asylum seeker.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573668#Comment_122573668

Not really, you just have to stop the most likely people to be carrying weapons.

Unlikely to be an elderly lady from Merrion View now is it ?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572354#Comment_122572354

I don't think that's true though. It's more that some people think that terrorist attacks are a specific problem that require a particular approach - whether they're right or not.

Nobody thinks that you can get rid of all crime ever. So does that mean there's no point in trying to target specific crimes, eg the terrorist ones?

A similar thing is going on over on the XL bullies "dangerous dogs" thread, where some posters have claimed that because other dogs have also attacked people, there's no point in trying to do anything about fighting breeds like XL bullies. There's even someone saying you can't ban any living creature because next stop = Hitler.

The fallacy of course is that nobody is claiming that banning the fighting breeds will stop terrier or golden retriever attacks. The real question is whether a ban will stop attacks by XL bullies. And, I suppose, whether that's worth doing in itself.

And it would be frankly dishonest to start a thread about a terrier attack to "prove" that nobody cares about dog attacks unless they're by XL bullies. Though TBF we're not far off that over there either.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058367245/six-hurt-in-knife-attack-on-bus-in-germany

Better mental health treatment, i.e., investment in Asylums and Bedlams, and stop with the wishy-washy approach to dealing with mental health? Some people need to be locked away while they are treated.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575105#Comment_122575105

Yes. I don't know about Germany but it's clear that in Ireland and the UK, "care in the community" has mainly become a way of not spending money on the mentally ill - leave them to their own devices, and presume that their families will have to manage because what's the alternative?

The guy who killed three people in Nottingham, including the daughter of an Irish woman as I recall, had basically been dropped from mental health services because he refused to cooperate. That's the very worst reason for letting someone fall out of the safety net, but it seems it's not that uncommon.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj08qypl438o

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575117#Comment_122575117

The kid that murdered the three little girls in Southport was known to the Mental Health Services there.

He should have been locked up receiving treatment. So should the guy in Nottingham.=

Also, this guy should have been in full time institutional care.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/27/jonty-bravery-tate-modern-not-considered-risk

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575137#Comment_122575137

Agreed. It seems to me that the general rule that mentally ill people should be out in the community except in the most exceptional circumstances goes too far in the other direction from the past where the norm was to lock them up. Both extremes are bad, but involuntary hospitalisation should be seen as different from imprisonment as a punishment.

Very ill people can be a threat to themselves as well as to others: I read an article a couple of years back by a woman whose mentally ill sister was being used for sex by multiple men in the area, and she could get nobody to intervene to help her, because the approach was that the woman was an adult, and it was her own choice. She ended up with syphilis, as well as drug addiction.

This is not the same article, but it describes the difficulty families have in getting help for the mentally ill in New York:

I Am the Last Barrier Between My Sister and New York City

It's behind a paywall, so here's some of it:

To keep my sister from becoming one of the thousands of mentally ill homeless people in New York, I and other members of our family spent three years, 2009 to 2012, navigating the city’s real estate laws, federal disability requirements and the state’s health care system and mental health laws. It was a daunting, time-consuming and almost impossible task for laypeople…

Because of her illness, my sister lacks all insight into her condition. She does not understand that the loss of her career, her co-op, her life in New York as she once knew it is due to her illness. She does not accept that I am her guardian, that she can no longer live unsupervised and that the stray animals and injured birds she adopts have caused thousands of dollars in damage to the apartments I was able to sublet for her. She does not understand that she has become a danger to herself and others and needs medical treatment to safely live within the community.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575870#Comment_122575870

Right, so when you asked "What can be done?" that was just a pretence at being interested in finding solutions. Ok, got that.

And are you happy to have been proven wrong about people (not) being interested? Only I notice you jumped in to break up an actual discussion of mental illness - can't be having the thread being a discussion, right?

It's a pity you didn't manage find an example with multiple deaths and the stabber initially escaping though. You know, to be comparable to the previous one.

nachouser

I haven't been proven wrong. This thread would have been pages deep. You know it, I know it. We're still on page 1 after a stabbing in Germany. After something that happened 2 days ago.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575895#Comment_122575895

One where nobody died. There have been several other attacks around Europe, by terrorists or by asylum seekers etc where nobody died - they didn't all have a thread opened.

I'll give you one even closer than that, which I remember because it's a place I know well:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/clapham-alkaline-attack-row-asylum-b2489543.html

I don't remember there being a thread on him either.

But hey, you go and open a thread pretending to be interested in the causes of random attacks on innocent passers-by - as you've openly admitted to doing - and you think that somehow reflects badly on other posters??

The lack of self awareness is amazing.

nachouser

No, again, I opened a thread on knife attacks in Germany - threads which have been very popular on CA/IMHO - and none of the usual gang piled in because the attacker wasn't the "right" attacker. You can deflect all you want, but it is what it is.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575992#Comment_122575992

Oh indeed yes, I can see what it is. I already said so.

You even volunteered the information that it was a thread started on false pretences. You asked a fake question, so it was hardly conducive to interesting responses, either. And yet despite that, a discussion was happening - until you jumped in to make it entirely clear that it was a fake thread.

RoyalCelt

Xray cameras monitored 24/7 by AI to see who's carrying knives. Either that or minority report.

pjohnson

at least OP admitted thread is just attention seeking.

I'd imagine those type threads wont be as active with the new access rules. Reregs cant rush in.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575997#Comment_122575997

It wasn't a fake thread. It was a thread about things that actually happened, albeit one of those threads where you have to search a bit for the context. And none of the usual crew piled in because of the attacker.

Anyway. Have a good evening.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573668#Comment_122573668

Ehhh - I don't think the Gardaí have a presence in Germany

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574981#Comment_122574981

Every lad from 15 to 35 so, is it?

Or can you narrow it down more, or broaden it out a bit?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575992#Comment_122575992

You're absolutely right. There was a thread about a German policeman being stabbed and killed by a Muslim. I was threadbanned for bringing up a terrible incident where 2 German police were shot dead by poachers.

No one really cares about the dead, they only care who the offender is.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576077#Comment_122576077

Iirc its because you refused to open up your own thread on the incident and just wanted to force an entire thread to bend to your will onto a completely different topic.

It was a comprehension issue.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575870#Comment_122575870

… but you did prove your point in another way too - just this afternoon someone posted a photo/news item about a black man in England - the first specific mention of another similar case; which is as much of a dogwhistle as I have ever seen.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575953#Comment_122575953

So now you have provided two examples of "furriners". You have reinforced nachouser's point - if it's not a furriner doing it you couldn't care less.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576094#Comment_122576094

Nope. It was a thread about a German police officer being killed. But people didn't care about dead police officers. Only offenders

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576136#Comment_122576136

Yes it was a thread about a police officer being stabbed.

You wanted to commandeer it into an entirely different incident.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576044#Comment_122576044

It was a fake because the OP contains one question "What can be done?" which you then volunteered was not the aim of the thread at all. Instead your aim - as you've admitted - was to have a go at unnamed posters for NOT taking part in your fake discussion.

Which is frankly bizarre - so bizarre in fact that some of the more dullminded posters here have taken this as a thread to have a go at posters who HAVE taken part in the thread!

So maybe you should just name the "usual crew" that you're trying to have a go at, so that posters like myself, @Jim_Hodge or @Mike Murdock who took part here in good faith aren't tainted by association in your attempt to character smear others whom you aren't brave enough to name?

Yvonne007

When a native of a country does something awful, it's awful. Awful things happen. It's very sad.

When someone is a guest in the country or has arrived there illegally and does something awful, of course people will feel strongly about it and rant about it more.

But the reason your thread didn't get any attention or traction is because it was plainly obvious that you opened it in bad faith, had no interest in a discussion and you have admitted as much.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577238#Comment_122577238

Nothing more to add to that - spot on 100%!

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576123#Comment_122576123

Does that include the one I posted of a "furriner" who's a white middle class New Yorker (in New York!) who was self-harming rather than attacking others - because the mental health issue was MY point, whereas attacking other posters is yours. She was female of course, hence not attacking others.

But yeah, just ignore that example - doesn't fit too well with your (personal attack) sorry, "argument".

FYI if you look at the Southport thread, you'll see that when others were having a dingdong about the race/ethnicity/religion of the attacker, I was the only one pointing out that what these attackers really have in common is that they are all men. Didn't see you getting involved there either.

So hey, you just keep on doing you in your determination to virtue signal to the white middle class men who are the majority of posters on here. "Pick me, men! I'll say what you want to hear!"

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576072#Comment_122576072

You don’t think local Gardai know local troublemakers??

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577238#Comment_122577238

I'm sure a certain type of person/section of society would "feel strongly" about it..

When you are more upset by the perpetrator rather than the act itself, maybe you should try some personal reflection

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577787#Comment_122577787

Lol.

Really?

Where did I even suggest that?

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577839#Comment_122577839

Feel free to re read your post from earlier, if you need to jog your memory

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577395#Comment_122577395

The first post about a furriner included a picture of a very dark-skinned black man. A later post of yours contained a photo of a chap with a muslim sounding name.

At least on my computer there was no photo of the person in NY, I wonder why?

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577847#Comment_122577847

Ah yes, where I said that the attack was awful but awful things will always happen because of human nature? The post also stated that it is understandable that people are more passionate and angry when these awful things happen by people who are guests in their country or are there illegally?

What part of that post would require personal reflection?

OR perhaps you mixed me up with the OP who started a thread purely to bait people using an awful incident.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577648#Comment_122577648

Are you of the opinion that the Gardaí have a presence in Germany, which is where this incident occurred?