The split season

Krazy gang

Lot of nonsense here about how it's only the media and armchair supporters who are against the split season. I genuinely have met very few people who like it even though I love the club games. It just feels so rushed, week on week with no time for rest or injuries to heal. As someone said to me last week the beauty of sport is when you win a match you get time to enjoy it, that's all gone now. Back onto the merry go round. Of course the monster that is the intercounty season is a big cause of this rushed season.

I would like to see reduction in the amount of league games. Interest usually tapers off after 3 or 4 rounds. Play 2 rounds of club championship in april like before. That was always done in kilkenny and other counties and was very successful. Would mean less congestion when resuming after the all Ireland's. This nonsense of clubs playing 10/12 weeks in a row is madness for amateur players , you need recovery time. So much going on every weekend it's impossible for local media to cover it all.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122778533#Comment_122778533

You make a fair point there. Ideally championship games should be every second week. Money as we know can be an influence otherwise.

The profile of the provincial club championships seems lower that what it should be under the split season. TG4 are great but is there anything to be said for a highlights programme on RTE on Sunday nights once the club championships get to the provincial stage?

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122793174#Comment_122793174

Just feels like there's too many matches in every sport nowadays. At least soccer and rugby players have proper rest and recovery.

A highlight show on Sunday evenings on rté would be brilliant for the profile of the club games. Tg4 is grand but if it was on rté would really give it a whole new exposure excitement.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122778533#Comment_122778533

the problem imo is not the intercounty team or manager.. its the inept county board administrators who are incapable of carrying out their roles… during brian codys tenure as KK manager.. the club scene in KK ran successfully alongside the intercounty without any issues…

personally i would to like see all ire finals in late august but no later.. have to say its great to be driving back to Kerry from Croker in daylight…

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122795718#Comment_122795718

Yes, but for most of Brian Cody's reign, his Kilkenny side only had to play maybe four matches per year, even in making it to the All-Ireland Final. I'm talking from 1999 up to when the round-robin system in the provincial championships was introduced in 2018.

Kilkenny typically had a Leinster semi-final around middle of June, then a three or four week break before a Leinster Final, then sometimes as long as a five-week break before an All-Ireland semi-final, and maybe three or four weeks then before the All-Ireland.

Kilkenny didn't worry too much about fitting a club football championship into those gap weeks either.

And considering that this year, Kilkenny didn't start their Senior Hurling League/Championship until August, is their County Board now "inept" too?

Uncle Pierre

@awaywithyou - anyway, here's a puzzle for you. Here are Wexford's inter-county football & hurling championship fixtures from this year (including Tailteann Cup). Bear in mind that 90% or more of players here are dual players at club level, have a look at the dates below, and tell me how our "inept" County Board should have done things differently?

• April 7: Football v Carlow
• April 14: Football v Louth
• April 21: Hurling v Dublin
• April 27: Hurling v Antrim
• May 4: Hurling v Galway
• May 11: Football v Sligo
• May 18: Football v Antrim
• May 19: Hurling v Carlow
• May 26: Hurling v Kilkenny
• June 1: Football v Tipperary
• June 15: Hurling v Laois
• June 22: Hurling v Clare
• July 5: Start of County Championships.

Krazy gang

I think the weekend gone shows the split season is not working and in the long term will show it's been a mistake. Dublin béing beaten for the first time in 15 years in leinster and many people didn't see it. With the munster hurling championship, the snooker and Liverpool clinchig the Premier league there's just too much on.

Of course it's not just the split season, the structure of the football championship is another factor

Bot1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123400764#Comment_123400764

So for example Cork's club hurling championship (and all the players involved) must be impacted because some people choose to watch snooker or Liverpool over a Leinster football championship match?

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123408144#Comment_123408144

Sorry? I don't get what point you're making.

Anyway I'm not calling for a move back to September all irelands, just a bit of adjustment and moving things around so that the intercounty season gets a bit of breathing room. Less matches, ie, league is too long, takes up too long.

Leave a few weeks between end of league and start of championship.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123400764#Comment_123400764

Cork as a county for example can run off competitions for 200+ teams in various grades, but they treat both codes equally in fairness, and because there's such a large crossover of players, they can't play both codes simultaneously. Yet they do in 3 and half months.

Intercounty season runs from January to July, with prep work starting in November/December, and works for 68 county teams. Intercounty can run hurling and football simultaneously, and does so except for the final 5 weekends of the year.

So if a county can run off a competitions for 200+ teams setting aside time to play both codes so they don't clash in 3 and a half months, then why can't the GAA run competitions for 68 teams who don't share players and can be run alongside each other in 6 months?

The split season isn't the problem. The problem is the bloating of the intercounty season with extra games, lob-sided provincial championships and too many competitions, with managers wanting as much training and prep time between games as possible.

Any attempt to prolong the intercounty season will ultimately screw over the clubs. They already play their marquee games in the middle of winter to facilitate the county scene. Counties have changed the formats of the county championships to facilitate the shorter time-frame.

If the inter-county season wants to space out it's matches, it's going to have come up with better and fairer formats than it has now. 6 months (preceded by two months of preparation from mid-November in most counties) is more than enough time to run off independent championships.

As for exposure that's a completely separate issue. They could have…

• Included in a TV package 8 live Games a week; A local derby game on TV of a Friday evening at 7:15. Early games on Saturday at 1:00pm and 3:00pm on TV. 5:15 and 7:30 slots on GAAgo for marquee games. A game at 2:00 and 4:15 of a Sunday, with a deferred game shown at 7:00 on Sunday as well. There's enough stations, there's no reason why the GAA can't own the weekend. Friday evening and early Saturday games to focus on lower league teams with €10 reduced entry cost to the match for supporters due to the awkward times.
• Insist upon 2 evening shows of a Saturday and Sunday, with a focus on games not shown on live TV as the main highlights.
• Flood social media of a Tuesday/Wednesday with highlights of all games. No analysis or ****-chat, (leave that for the weekend evening shows), just the 15 seconds before all scores and cards or major events. Works will with other sports.
• Make managers do press-conferences before the start of any competition (league/provincial/championship), before any provincial/league final, the AIQF's, AISF's and AIF etc to boost the media profile of competitions.
• Flood social media with the 7 best goals/points/saves/tackles/skills of the week in both codes.

There's options there to promote and view the games and have them viewed without screwing over the clubs.

joebloggs32

A great post.

The intercounty structure of league and championship needs to be more streamlined, then there will be plenty of breathing space to fit in the championships to their current slot.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123408375#Comment_123408375

One of the best pieces of writing I've seen on the whole issue, either on online fora or by professional journalists. Any of the hurlers (or even footballers) on the ditch who start with the usual "the split season isn't working" rubbish should be made read this to open their eyes to the real issue.

FWIW, we in Wexford aren't as big as Cork, but we run championships for approx. 160 club teams across the grades in the same timeframe of approx. three and a half months, with almost complete crossover of players between the codes. At least 90% and probably more than 95% of club players here play both hurling and football.

And thanks to the split season, they have fixtures certainty that they never had before. They know their club championships will begin early to mid July (save for the unfortunately unlikely event that our senior hurlers make an All-Ireland Final), and run to mid-October. Prior to the split season, they didn't know whether or not they'd have championship matches in May or June, and so they could make no other plans for those months.

Probably not ideal in that they still can't take a family holiday in July/August without missing a championship match, but at least they know they can do so in May/June without any such worry.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123408375#Comment_123408375

7:15 Friday evening games are not suitable for amateur players, coaches, backroom staff.

That's a whole work day gone for them.

Your other stuff makes sense.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410033#Comment_123410033

Limerick Runs a round Robin system at preliminary stage groups of six. 5 rounds of Football and Hurling before QF stages. That is ten rounds of matches for dual club. Teams reaching finals will have 7-8 matches in a code.

The Split season was a disaster County Management not releasing players if they had any niggles and discouraging hurlers in particular not to play the other code.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410033#Comment_123410033

I'm not sure about you but I'm 47 yrs old played championship hurling and football until my mid 30s. I knew back then if I didn't want to miss a club championship game I should take a holiday in June and the same still remains the case. I don't know where your May club championships is coming from? When the last time wexford hurlers weren't playing in June? Wexford hurled well into June even before the first back door system came in. And I'm not sure about us telling others how great hour structures are considering we've devised a championship structure in hurling where even after 5 championship games over 2 months every team is still in the championship!

I hate the current split season, combined with the increase in games it's been a disaster. More games of less consequence across both codes particularly football with increased costs for fans. I'm a fan of both codes and now can't even get to see most of the best games every weekend, last weekend a case in point all for what? So a fella knws when to take a holiday? In my experience they still take holidays anyway during championship and come electric picnic weekend you see club teams with multiple players missing and whinging about not getting tine off to attend a piss up in Laois, it's like changing the entire structure of the GAA wasn't enough because of a music festival

The build up to big championship games used to be a huge thing, now we can't even have a proper build up to the biggest games of the year, the All Ireland finals, all for what? So a fella knows when to take a holiday!

There has to be a change from this imho but it has to be more than just changing the calendar. Push all ireland finals back into August and reclaim the summer whilst also reducing the amount of intercounty games. The vast majority of counties will still be able to start their club championships in July like they currently are, this idea that every club player around the country needed certainty was bonkers to begin with, anyone with a bit of wit will know whether their county will be contesting All Ireland semi finals and finals

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123409727#Comment_123409727

I agree but it's hard to see it happening. For example in intercounty football, currently we go from a league to a knockout provincial champ to a league style round Robin and finally straight knock out. Far to elongated and drawn out

sliabh 1956

Well in my occupation I come across a fair few county players and i have yet to meet one who would vote to return to old system. And after all they surely are the ones this that count. These players give their all to their club and county. The Football Provincials Looked vulnerable up until this Month but after Dublin defeat and Kerry's close shave I think they are safe for a few more years.

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410033#Comment_123410033

I'm from a neighbouring county so I follow the wexford club scene closely through the local media etc.

While some people will say it's great that players have regular games in July and August, and it is, the problem I see it is youre trying to squash so many games into a short time frame with no room for error.

I struggle to see how playing 14 or 15 weekends in a row is enjoyable, contributes to the overall quality of the matches when you factor in injuries, burnout and fatigue. It's basically like a factory, just tick off the games as fast as possible and don't worry about the quality.

I remember last year or the year b4 a junior semi final ended in a draw, replay on the Wednesday which went to extra time. And surprise surprise the Victor's were hammered in the final 4 days later as they had nothing left to give. Your senior competitions are the same, no build up, no promotion, just a box ticking exercise.

I suppose once the lads get to go to Greece on the pi** that's the main thing. Who cares about getting rid of a 100 year old tradition of September all irelands? Holidays and concerts are more important.

Krazy gang

Great post. I just put up something similar. It's like going for a 2 weeks pi** up is more important than the great sports we have and trying to maximise the media coverage and attention it's getting. Like you said when electric picnic comes around most counties had to cancel the whole weekend of matches because the club players wanted to sit in a field in leix!!🤮

Can you imagine the FA cup final being moved back to March or Wimbledon to April? There would be uproar. The supporters / fans wouldn't stand for it.

MfMan

I think what we need is actually a split season, i.e. revert to the old way where club championships play earlier rounds before the county championship commences, and finish it after, even though I know this would be deeply unpopular with managers and players alike. Inter-county championships are and traditionally always were a (high) summer competition. Early-season attendances are just so poor because the 'floating' fan couldn't be bothered to be coming out on colder, duller days, particularly when there are competing sports on, as mentioned above. Finishing the AIs before the Galway races is, to me , perverse. It's leaving the second half of the summer with nothing to look forward to and giving space to competing sports to fill the vacuum. From a revenue-generating POV alone, leaving August free for the clubs is a non-runner anyway because nobody but the diehards go to the earlier championship rounds.

Pushing back the intercounty championship, even by a max of 3 weeks, should be easily achievable.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410183#Comment_123410183

We run a similar system in Wexford, of groups of six in both hurling & football championships. Takes nine rounds of hurling and eight in football because of what I personally consider a nonsense last year and this year of an extra preliminary quarter-final round in hurling, after every team goes through from the group stage anyway.

We're conscious that we'd have problems in finishing it in the time available if our senior hurlers ever made an All-Ireland Final or even a semi-final, but to be honest, that's a "problem" that we wouldn't really mind having in the way that Limerick must have had a few times in recent years.

I don't understand the last part of your post, about split season being a disaster due to county managers not releasing players. Whole idea of the split season is that they don't need to release players, because the inter-county championships and the club championships don't run concurrently.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123411121#Comment_123411121

Sorry I was referring to when the county season was split and there was 6 weeks between league and champioship 4-5 years ago. Laye March and April was given over to club games.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410259#Comment_123410259

I have all my club's championship results going back to 2011. Every year from then up to 2018, we had club championship matches in May in senior, intermediate and junior. In two of those years (2012 and 2016), we also had club championship matches in June.

It was only the introduction in 2019 of the round-robin stage of the provincial hurling championships, and the certainty that Wexford would be involved on certain date throughout late April and May, that put an end to that. Prior to that, the club player didn't know where he was at, e.g.: "the county hurlers are playing on Sunday. If they win, they'll have a match a fortnight later, so there won't be club championship yet. But if they lose, they'll have four weeks before a back-door match, so there might be club championship matches in the middle of that gap."

Anyway, if you thought "I'll take a holiday in June so I can be sure of not missing club championship", you'd have been wrong in two of those eight years.

Anyway, you're actually conflating two issues here: the championship calendars, and the championship structures. This is shown by this line from your post:

I hate the current split season, combined with the increase in games it's been a disaster

It's the "combined with the increase in games" that's the real issue. No matter what way you divide the calendar between designated club weeks and designated county weeks, there'd still only be the same number of weeks overall to play the same number of games.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410325#Comment_123410325

You're also conflating the championship calendar and championship structure.

If playing up to 14 or 15 or even more weeks in a row is unacceptable, it's open to the clubs here to vote in a new structure, with fewer games. They get the chance to do so every single year at a special County Board meeting on club competition structures, but they consistently vote back in the system we have.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410786#Comment_123410786

And finally for now, your "solution" would be to re-introduce something that even you acknowledge "would be deeply unpopular with managers and players alike". I just can't see that happening.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410290#Comment_123410290

No the players are not the ones that count.

It's clearly the people who can't decide between watching the hurling or the snooker who need to be prioritised.

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123411232#Comment_123411232

Ciarán kilkenny and conor mcmanus to mention just 2 are not on favour of it.

Anyway most people say player interviews are a waste of time because they never say anything interesting anyway.

If electric picnic clashes with the all ireland next year maybe the gaa will play the all ireland final on a Tuesday morning in June!! Don't want to be stopping the lads going to the aul concerts

Dick phelan

This weekend Waterford play Limerick 6 days after playing Clare, meaning very little time for players to recover, no time for any hype or build up or to enjoy the win last Sunday. The GAA decided to do this round robin system with condensed games, Waterford vs Limerick will be on a streaming service which will be watched by a fraction of the people who would watch it it was on RTE, it will also be competing with Leinster in a European cup SF. A massive game with zero hype or promotion. It has lost a lot of it's spark for me personally.

crusd

I was of the opinion that the split season was really hitting attendances. Then 27k in Castlebar on Sunday kind of went against the grain. Its the product that will bring the crowds not the season. I still dont like a July All Ireland however. I think there is a way to carve out club and county windows within the combined season. No club championship until August is not ideal either. The reality is county finals are no earlier than they were before. A 4-6 week club window to run off group stages between league and championship would be my preference. And zero tolerance to countries who dont adhere to it, with red weather warning the only acceptable excuse

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123423094#Comment_123423094

IMO it's not so much the split season but the amount of meaningless games with no risk involved that is effecting attendance. People cannot be at every game. It's relatively easy from Dublin, but elsewhere it takes time and money.

I went to the Cork/Kerry game. I live in Limerick. I left with a friend at about 3.15 we were not back until midnight. I did not bother with the Munster Final. My daughter was running the half marathon in Limerick. Peolkhave other things to do than go to no risk games. If Kerry lost they were in a group with the Leinster champions.

The GAA need to bring risk and competitiveness back into the championship. There also needs to risk at the bottom in the form of relegation. That means forget about provincial championships