Public sector pension offset with contributory state pension confusing me

Mr Disco

hi at a high level I am 48 and have worked 10 years in public sector with a salary of 52k.

If I work to retirement age what would my pension be? And is it separate to state pension.

Any docs I read seem unnecessarily complicated and convoluted and seem to only give examples of people who have worked their full career in PS

Geuze

Are you a member of the SPSPS?

yabadabado

Did you start before or after 01.01.2013 and how many years service will you have on retirement date ?

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122558643#Comment_122558643

after 2013 and 22 on retirement date

Geuze

If you started after 01.01.2013, you are probably a member of the SPSPS.

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559416#Comment_122559416

As mentioned above ,you should be in the SPS scheme.

40 years service will give full pension entitlement, so you will have slightly more than half that.

SPS website have an estimator tool on their website.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561112#Comment_122561112

But the state pension (which you will get) will be deducted from your SPS pension.

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561259#Comment_122561259

Yes and that info is in the link posted previously

Riskymove

You can access the modellers here to estimate your pension

https://www.publicservicepensions.gov.ie/en/publications/modeller-disclaimer/

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561283#Comment_122561283

The poster's earlier comment about online things being "unnecessary complex" makes me think they may not read the details so much.

It's easy to miss the major implications of the deduction, because its just so counter-intuitive.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561259#Comment_122561259

How Is that calculated where say a worker has 50 years contributions to the OAP,( even though 40 is now the max for calculation) and say 20 years service in a public sevrice job

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561259#Comment_122561259

Making it unnecessarily complex for anyone not used to looking at the SPSS pensions, use the modeller, it will give you the lump sum, the PS pension you will recieve annually and the State one, a lot more simple

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122563737#Comment_122563737

AFAIK, the state pension amount is subtracted from the SPS amount, irrespective of length of service.

Grossly unfair to anyone who is not a lifer.

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122563968#Comment_122563968

that’s the point I am confused about.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122563968#Comment_122563968

I suspected that. A lot of the blame us on public service unions who refused any negotiation in the 2910-2014 period. Basically they walked out of any negotiations.

That means that someone say taking a 50k job with the public service and doing 10 years in it would be entitled to no pension from the public service

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564189#Comment_122564189

How do you mean they are not entitled to a public service pension after paying into it ,they will get a pro rata amount depending on the years paid .I know a guy this year retired from 800 week gross council job job at 60 after 40 years and his pension is about 250 per week but he will add the con pension to this at 66 plus he also got aa lump sum.. l

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564695#Comment_122564695

If he has been 40 years in the job then he is not on the 2013 pension!

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564752#Comment_122564752

What difference is there

I taught it was handy enough after 40 years but that's what it is ,I say he don't know how much he even paid into it.The guards and p&t are the public servants with eye watering pensions and can qualify for pro rata con pension on top if they take early retirement and put up n a stamp for 10 years

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564777#Comment_122564777

This may be relevant to people with long service retiring now, but since 1995 everyone gets the old age pension which is deducted. If you want to argue the point then I suggest that you research the differences before posting about it.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564695#Comment_122564695

Sure they will get a pro-rata amount.

But with only ten years service, that pro-rata amount is likely to be little more than the state-pension value. So when it is deducted, there is very little left for them to receive. Despite spending ten years paying a stamp AND the public sector pension contribution.

Geuze

Here is the (complex) formula for pension benefits for PS hired beforre 2013:

18.3 For members who are in PRSI Class A (full rate)……..Pension Scheme is an integrated scheme. This means that the occupational (Scheme) pension at retirement is calculated with an offset in respect of the State Pension (Contributory) (SPC). In addition to the Scheme pension, such members may qualify for the contributory State Pension.

Integration method of pension calculation

18.4 The integration method of pension calculation applies to all Class A full-PRSI teachers who qualify for benefits on or after 1 January 2004.

For integrated members, pension is calculated as follows:

• 1/200th of pensionable remuneration up to 3 1/3 times SPC* x service

PLUS

• 1/80th of any pay balance in excess of 3 1/3 times SPC* x service

Overall pensionable service for pension benefits is subject to a maximum of 40 years. *Note: The SPC rate is the maximum State Pension (Contributory) rate payable by the Department of Social Protection to a single person without dependants on the last day of the member's employment.

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566782#Comment_122566782

I’m post 2013

Geuze

Example: 10 years service, final salary = 50k

3.333333 x SPC of 277.30 *52.18 weeks = 48,231.71 threshold

50,000 - threshold = 1,768.29

Pension =

(1/200) (10 years)(48237.71) + (1/80)(10 years)(1768.29)

= 2411.88 + 221.04 = 2632.91, we'll call it 2633 per annum pension

If the worker had 40 years, the PS pension would be 10,530

Add the SPC of 14,469.51

10 years work = 2,633 + 14,469 = 17,102

40 years work = 10,530 + 14,469 = 25k exactly, that's how I know my sums are correct, because it is designed to provide a pension of 50% of former salary

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566805#Comment_122566805

Okay, you are in the SPSPS?

I hear that SPSPS members receive an annual pension statement, is that correct?

Geuze

The benefits of the SPSPS are explained below:

http://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Updated-Member-Booklet_ENG-NOV-2022.pdf

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566805#Comment_122566805

Okay, so please ignore my posts 21 and 23.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566860#Comment_122566860

Can you tell me if I will much in a public pension at 66 .50 this year and have 1 year down as CO on 30k

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566903#Comment_122566903

This sentence does not make sense.

"if I will much"?

"…at 66 .50 this year"?

Go ahead and use the formulae above to calculate your future pension benefits.

Geuze

Your lump-sum will be:

3.75% * full-time pensionable salary * work pattern

Obviously, 40 years at 3.75% per year, means a lump-sum of 150% of pensionable salary.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122567012#Comment_122567012

There is no need to be snotty it quite clear if you read his post he missed a space after the full stop.

He has one year service at 50 years of age so he will have 17 at 66 years of age and is wondering what pension he will get. My understanding is he will get only the pension lump sum if about 65% of his average salary over the 17 years and no pension except the contributory

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122566903#Comment_122566903

Assumptions

• Started in PS at age 49
• Member of the SPSPS
• Will finish at age 66
• 17 years service
• Current salary as CO = 30k

The SPSPS is not based on final salary, it is based on career-average earnings.

This is why it is not easy to say the future pension benefits, as we doing know the path of earnings between age 49 and 66.

I suggest using the SPSPS Estimator Tool:

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/single-scheme-estimator-tool/

CramCycle

Please use the modeller provided in post 9. If you have worked in the PS or CS you will get some pension on top of your state pension, I am not sure how anyone thinks you won't, they are just combined to give your total pension, but it is not taking away from your CS/PS one, that one is just limited by the amount of state pension at the time. Most people will not have to worry about that limit.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122569806#Comment_122569806

That's what I always understood ,it might not be a whole lot but at least it is something you are entitled to .I can not understand some many giving adamantly wrong advice

Riskymove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122569806#Comment_122569806

If the CS/PS entitlement is less than the value of the State Pension then what happens?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122578725#Comment_122578725

So long as you qualify for the SCP, you get that, so lets say 13+k a year. Lets say your time in the CS/PS was only 10 years, averaged 36k a year. So not a huge pension but not tiny either, it is still less than the state pension at about 1.8k a year.

You get your 13k from the state pension, plus your 1.8k from the CS/PS one. That's it. This is the SPSS scheme.

CramCycle

Please use the modeller so that no one can lead you the wrong way, it is far simpler than people explaining the ins and outs, which are nice to know but some people might get confused on. It gives you the state pension and you CS/PS pension, simples.