Run an EV charger 7kw from a CEE wall socket?

ando

Hi,

Im considering having an electrician install a CEE socket onto the side of my house to avail of using a cheap 7kw charger unit. Is this a thing, has anyone done this?

Is there anything else I need to look out for? It seems a little too good to be true when I'm being quoted €1500 for a wall charger from wall charger installation companies (including grant).

Looking at something like this:

https://carlightbulb.com/en-ie/products/cee-3-pin-plug-type-2-ev-charger-adjustable-8a-10a-16a-20a-24a-32a-digital-6m?currency=EUR&variant=44432555507874&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=d7752ef57dbc&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyu8txWid1wOsZxVAH7vGNx1NOI5Px8yMredVmaHlYFOtaZJCnGjJYSRoC5mEQAvD_BwE

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058366699/run-an-ev-charger-7kw-from-a-cee-wall-socket

You’ll still need the associated cabling back to the consumer unit, same as a EVSE.

I seen Facebook offers it €699 for chargers supplied and installed. BG Sync I think they are.

ando

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555585#Comment_122555585

thanks, yes the installation point would only be a few meters away from the fuse board, on an external wall so not much to the installation and hopefully would be reflected in the labour cost. Therefore I then just need to buy something like what I linked above?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555675#Comment_122555675

But the labour cost would be the same for an EVSE (proper charger). They only difference is the cost of the charger point.

Get one on adverts, Amazon, DoneDeal or similar. You’ll pick up one for the same price as that CEE plug.

zg3409

I have no connection to above company and I cannot recommend them one way or another but at least they list prices. You also get 300 off this price with seai grant. The actual title price could vary depending on cable length etc.

In terms of using a big blue plug, no electrician should install this for a home charger. Multiple reasons. There are regulations electricians must meet and they are quite stringent for EV chargers. For an example an isolator switch needs to be installed nearby (not required anywhere else in the world). They need to check your ESB meter, the thickness of the wires between ESB meter and fuse board. They need to check fuse board and fit specific breakers that I think are more expensive with extra features.

Often they need to install a load sensor at the fuse board. This is important in case lots of heavy loads all come on at same time. E g. Triton instant shower (9kW), car charger (7kW), washing machine 2kW, dryer (2kW), dishwasher, hot water immersion, heat pump (7+kW) etc. All coming on at once is more common as many EVs take many hours to fill up and special low cost night rate plans give very cheap electricity from say 4am-6am so everything is timed to come on at once. If charger has load sending it can prevent overall overload and blowing of main ESB fuse. This can easily happen with above items. With a basic blue socket you don't have that feature which is really needed.

Car charger installers like to install brands they know and can support for next 5-10 years. Often these cheaper units are not even waterproof. (I dried my cheap granny charger out with a hair dryer and now it is kept covered with a second box to keep the rain off. )

To avail of seai grant the charger needs to be "smart". Having app control can be handy as you can start charging car from bed or check it has charged etc. Some chargers work with solar panels to fill car with free sunshine.

If you consider you may have your charger for 10-20 years, probably longer than your EV then it's not a big cost. You can haggle with installers but often these jobs can take multiple visits, and they may need to help you set up the app, teach you how to use it etc. Sure some guys overcharge and under deliver, but get a few quotes over the phone and try get a guy local to you who can pop back if you have trouble. I would get electrician to source the charger as they get discounts. A zappi is 600 euro delivered on eBay Ireland from an Irish seller. Installers must get it for less.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556609#Comment_122556609

Not at all, there is nothing wrong with using a CEE plug for a portable charger,especially in an interlocked socket. Wired with the correct rcbo it's fine, no different really from any other appliance. Tesla sell it into the Irish market for example. The tesla one is only €250. The CEE adaptor for the granny charger is just €50 if you already have it.

Yes you won't get load sensing in such a setup but the worst that will happen is that you blow the main fuse or trip the main breaker depending on your style of board. You have to manually manage demand. The good thing is there are not many houses where showers are taken in the middle of the night. Schedule the car to stop charging before the morning showers. If there is a risk of big simultaneous loads that take you over the rating for the main breaker then you need load sensing.

.

ted1

Just get a proper install

ELM327

I do this, have 3 32A CEE plugs and use one of them as a regular charger for my EVs. I have a wallbox charger but it was finicky when it was installed so rather than fixing it I just use the other plug.

Much cheaper than an EVSE and in these days of interconnected everything I like the idea of an analog charger with no smart gubbins to go wrong.

slave1

Tesla is the best option if going this route, it's down to €200 now which is great value. I use one the whole time, perfectly fine

ando

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122558505#Comment_122558505

any link? I have an Audi EV. Would it be compatible or is that even a thing?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122558505#Comment_122558505

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122558986#Comment_122558986

That's just for the cable. The point on the side of the house will require a spark to install

You can buy the cable (mobile connector) from the below link for €200 but you will also need the "blue adapter" which is €48 also on this link. And yes, despite the tesla branding it will work with any car that takes the type 2 plug, which an Audi EV should have

https://shop.tesla.com/en_ie/category/charging

CivilEx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557449#Comment_122557449

I'm curious on how cost effective this could be for a typical EV user today? Let's say an EV uses 250kWh per month and it is simply plugged in when you get home from work each evening.

If the majority of this 250kWh is at a rate of €0.35/kWh instead of a cheap overnight rate of €0.07/kWh, then the difference in electricity cost is €70 per month (250 x (0.35-0.07)). Over 12 months that is €840…which is a lot of loot.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting you here and the smart gubbins is in the EV i.e. a charging schedule is set up in the EV to charge only at cheap overnight rates. Dumb charging socket, but smart schedule in the car….assuming the software in the EV can do this?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559046#Comment_122559046

I use a morec one occasionally that I'm very happy with. I was going to get a tesla one but it doesn't as far as i can see have a readout on the electricity consumed which the morec has as well as selecting the max allowable current. I guess that info and functionality is available on the dash in a tesla.

I have a 32a plug at a second property and didn't fancy installing another charger there. Additionally having the cee charger means I can also plug into plugs at family who have yet to go ev when I'm there. Having the readout on the charger let's me tell the person how much power I've consumed so they have comfort that I've covered the cost.

A proper fixed charger is best obviously but the portable has its place too.

https://www.morec-ev.com/collections/best-seller/products/morec-typ2-ev-charger-16a-24a-32a-cee-plug

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559100#Comment_122559100

Cars all have scheduled charging. Mine charge on the 9 hours 12c window I have. We have an Ora, a Tesla and a leaf, and I have a tesla wallbox, a 7kW CEE plug, and a 16A CEE plug.Means I can charge all 3 cars overnight if needed (and dial down the tesla a bit).

I use well over 250kWh a month, probably close to that per week. Couldnt be charging tha t at day rates!

ando

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559046#Comment_122559046

Ok, it just triggered with me that my car came with a CEE blue adapter for the granny mobile charger.. I've been using the granny charger with a 3 pin plug the last few weeks, but it does indeed come with a blue CEE adapter. I think I have everything I need already, so I'm really just looking to get a sparks in to do a professional job installing a 32a CEE external socket to supply 7.2kw to the car! Did I just save a few hundred euros :)

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058366699/run-an-ev-charger-7kw-from-a-cee-wall-socket

Get a few quotes in from sparks just quoting for an install of the outdoor 32amp socket without mentioning anything about EV charging. That will let you know where you stand price wise to see if it's worth it.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559203#Comment_122559203

The UMC comes with a 16a adapter, the 32a was optional. Luckily it's only a few quid on the tesla shop. Much cheaper than a dedicated EVSE wallbox if you don't need it.
https://shop.tesla.com/en_ie/product/blue-adapter---16a_32a-

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559211#Comment_122559211

Get an interlocked ip65 32a socket for outside. They are more expensive than a standard socket (€70 vs €20) but they are a lot safer, especially if you are using it every day.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559213#Comment_122559213

The UMC comes with a 16a adapter, the 32a was optional.

I presume this is a new thing as my UMC only came with a 3-pin last year. Or is it if you purchase the UMC from the tesla store as opposed to getting it with the car?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559203#Comment_122559203

An untethered branded car charger should cost in the region of 1k so if you can get

1) the blue socket on the side of the wall

2) the blue plug to car connection

for less than €1k then you are saving money.

What you seem to have already is the second of the above.

As ELM327 correctly points out there is 32A and 16A variants of this so you may need to add the price of an adapter (or in the case of the UMC the corresponding head) depending on what socket and head you will install

We are a wet country, go for the waterproof model as MrMusicain18 has suggested

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559213#Comment_122559213

They stopped that years back, UMC delivers with just the 3pin now for the last 2/3yrs, in fairness the original years of shipment probably never got used. I have my UMC1 32a adapter here on the desk as an ornament!

slave1

..and the UMC now not included at all in purchase prices of Model3 etc

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561742#Comment_122561742

Can be bought separately for €200, or added on before checkout if you want to add VRT to it. Anecdotal evidence from facebook that some cars are still coming with it

ELM327

OK so when I got my 3 teslas (last one in 2022) they all had the UMC with the blue 16A. If they arent doing that then yeah you have to buy the part but it's not expensive.

ando

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559046#Comment_122559046

Can the Tesla mobile charger be used outdoor in the rain?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122569482#Comment_122569482

Yes, all car chargers are designed to be weatherproof because most people park their cars outdoors

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122569482#Comment_122569482

yup

ando

Not that I dont trust ye, but is there any documentation on the Tesla mobile charger IP rated protection? The Audi one is IP55, which to me is not good enough for Irish weather. The side of my house where the charger will be gets a lot of driving rain, wind and is a heat trap during the summer.

slave1

Been using one for years, it's waterproof, the only stipulation is that the "charge" part of the unit is not left in standing water, it is a very popular solution in the US where they don't have to worry so much about load balancing and they get a lot worse rain and more heat than us

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573785#Comment_122573785

It's IP44, which is waterproof for non pressurised water (ie no standing water puddles submersing it and don't spray the pressure washer at it)

ando

I always thought IP65 was the recommended IP rating for outdoor electrical devices.. I could be wrong.

Actually, I see a lot of EV wall chargers (including Ohme) are IP55

allinthehead

https://solarwholesaler.ie/collections/ev-charger/products/bpe-amstel-smart-charger-7-4kw-t2-5m-lead-with-dynamic-load-balancing?fbclid=IwY2xjawFFqSBleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHVC63S5yuV0fkqzN0S9PFgLGvVTqbomDlcW3Y_chWQohS10qmQZBvqr_9Q_aem_JpUoWIUpu-8L1xk_JA8N9g

By the time you install a Type B rcd and possibly a priority unit, you'd have paid for the above.

positron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556609#Comment_122556609

I saw a recent Fokearn install - nice tidy job. Power taken from the meter, isolator, couple of RCDs (not sure what type) in a new small consumer unit right next to the meter box, the EV charger itself, and then a new earth right underneath the charger (drilling thru the paving blocks). I am not sure if there were any CT / load monitoring things installed, I think the house has power showers. Overall it's all very good and tidy - but slightly off-putting overall looks-wise, that's just my personal taste though.

This has me rethinking wiring Tesla / another charger back to the consumer unit (up along the exterior of the wall, into the attic, across and down into consumer unit). I am planning on getting solar panels as well, so probably not too hard to pull another cable from CU to attic etc while solar guys have everything open.

Wondering what is needed at CU side in this scenario, just a regular RCD for the charger? Or is there any additional PEN fault protection requirements, or more expensive yokes (B type RCD?). Or is that only for commando socket? Also if installing a new earth rod, does it connect to the commando plug / charger, or does it have to go all the way back to the consumer unit?

Sorry about so many questions! I appreciate why electricians are on decent rates!!

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583816#Comment_122583816

Tesla gen 3 charge point has integrated 6ma dc protection, standard type A rcd in the CU will suffice. No additional earth rods are required either. Your existing earth rod must be available for inspection though.

Tesla charge point won't get a grant and afaik they don't come with load balancing either.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583408#Comment_122583408

That's looks a great value option compared to a replacement zappi. My 6yo version 1 zappi keeps tripping out when unplugged from car so I'm assuming I'll need to start planning to replace sooner rather than later.

Is there any reason not to go for one of these over a more expensive zappi 2?

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584219#Comment_122584219

Bpe would be a lessor known brand and support is an unknown quantity. Myenergi have good customer support with a vast amount of users. Bpe do pv inverters and battery storage, probably all rebranded chinese gear though.

https://www.badgerpowerelectronics.com/

positron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584079#Comment_122584079

Thanks, can't find an earth rod anywhere - house built in 1996. Probably concreted over under the pavement somewhere, none of the houses in the estate have an inspectable earth rod.

Does that mean I will have to put a new one in, even if I go with a Tesla charger? And if so, can it be a new one wired to the charger, or does it have to go all the way back to the CU?

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584427#Comment_122584427

You must get one installed, wired back to CU. It has nothing to do with the charge point type or even the installation of a charge point. Just a general requirement.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584219#Comment_122584219

Give MyEnergi a call, they are good to deal with and as V1 products being left behind from a software update perspective they have offered new units at discounted price through the year, will only cost you a call/email

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122585306#Comment_122585306

Thanks. Will try them again. The last time I checked, when the charger acted up before, they advised it was out of warranty and no discount for a replacement.

slave1

Maybe it depends on who you talked to, they are right it is out of warranty but they 100% offered good discounted pricing on latest Zappi earlier this year to folks posting here

Paul Kiernan

If anyone wants to go down this path I'm selling my Morec 7kw CEE portable charger -

https://www.morec-ev.com/products/morec-typ2-ev-charger-16a-24a-32a-cee-plug

Only used once or twice. €160 Dublin 18, close to N11/M50

ando

Just a quick update. The electrician installed the CEE socket and the car is charging at 7kw now, so all good!

gkp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122675699#Comment_122675699

Thanks for the update. Looking at this option too. Can you share approx cost and what breaker was used?

zg3409

Just a message from local electrician. I am not saying where but compared to 1000+ euro for a home charger that's good. I would not recommend regularly using these as they are not as safe as a proper charger.

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122680386#Comment_122680386

It's very good value for what it is. However, a big difference from a home charger.

We have a PHEV and initially charged it through a socket like that. It took on average 7 hours to charge the battery, depending on how empty etc.

My Zappi can do the same job in just over 3 hours on average. It was also easy to integrate the Zappi into our solar system when we got that last April. My last charge up was 92% from the solar and the rest from the grid.

Also the Zappi has a load monitoring feature that pulls back on the car charging if the overall electricity use in the house is getting very high (cooking, elec showers etc.). This is good from a safety perspective.

If I go to full BEV next year the Zappi will chargeable 7kw but any wall socket will only run about 2.2kw. Another reason for a dedicated charger.

gkp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122680626#Comment_122680626

Just to clarify, the discussion here was about a 32A CEE socket. This will charge at the same rate as a Zappi or any other dedicated charger but as you say will lack the extras such as load balancing and solar integration.

ando

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677070#Comment_122677070

I had to go with a few bits extra, I didnt go with the cheapest options either. Upgraded the main socket RDC with an A type 63amp, interlocked 32 amp CEE socket with isolation switch, 10 meter of armoured cable, 32 amp RCD on the circuit, smart timer installed with a connector too as I want to control exactly when the socket is powered up from my phone aswell as the manual button. €850. Took 3 lads two visits to do the work.

I prefer this route as its neat and if the mobile charger acts up in the future, its €200 / €250 for a new one instead of a €1000+ for a wall charger. I dont have an electric shower or electric oven, so it makes things simpler in terms of load balancing. Plus, we now have a CEE socket on the side of the house for powering the Jacuzzi too :D

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122680386#Comment_122680386

For 10a charging. Fine.
They do not quite match the performance of a proper EVSE at 32a though.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684684#Comment_122684684

Could have got a full charger supplied and fitted for €699 from Forkearn. But fair enough if you needed it for other sources too.