Dublin dirty and dangerous

manniot2

Article in Sunday Indo today detailing the decline of Dublin which I think is clear for everyone to see. One thing that I just cannot understand is the litter. I was in Cork and Galway this summer and they were spotless. What is going on in Dublin? It is disgustingly dirty everywhere. Surely this can’t be just a council issue. Anyone who suggest “it was always this way” is not correct. I’ve lived here 20 years and since covid it has gotten gradually worse. It’s becoming unliveable .

Hotblack Desiato

The real question is why anyone would waste their time reading the Sunday Indo

SpoonyMcSpoon

It is a kip on both the southside and northside city areas. Pavements that are cracked, litter, vacant and derelict businesses, traffic everywhere, junkies and tracksuit wearing scrotes, no proper market squares, no pedestrianisation, filthy River Liffey and even the aggressive seagulls make it an awful state of a city. The state of the place is only excused by those that are just happy to be able to get their alcohol in the many pubs and bars and drink themselves to a point when the kip starts to seem bearable or charming.

It has no character or soul anymore, as residents have been priced out of the city centre for temporary residents and the entitled non-contributing under class. As a result, no one living in the city gives a crap and this is then reflected in the state of the place on both north and south inner cities. It is criminal that young people and working families have not been included in policy decisions to make the city more liveable. Dublin is not London and it should be possible (especially as it is badly needed) to have more people living in the city centre (which I define as being within the canals). It is tragic to see the city decline to this state and I won’t be around to improve it as I moved away due to it being totally unliveable and unappealing like so many others.

Soc_Alt

Dublin City needs modernising street by street. After each street is completed it should be policed and cleaned.

Many places in Dublin should be knocked and built upwards by increasing the number of stories per building.

Dublin no longer has character as the last few generations dropped the relay torch.. It's time to rebuild.

magicbastarder

regarding the litter - IIRC DCC wanted to hire more operatives, who would be there to (probably among other things) work as street cleaners, but it would have required the councillors to vote on raising property tax. for years now, councillors have voted to drop property tax by the maximum amount they're allowed, 15%.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549111#Comment_122549111

Isn't this to do with central govt funding? Maybe someone can explain how the Propery Tax is redistrubited nowadays but I seem to recall some of Dublin's money being redistributed across the country, to cover the councils that had a shortfall.

In other words, if PT was raised in Dublin, where is the evidence that we would actually see the additional investment spent in the capital.

We also need to fine people for dropping litter.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549322#Comment_122549322

Each county council has the ability to set a different LPT rate, so I'd presume that the monies raised would remain in that county. Quite a few have increased it by the maximum allowed, whereas all of the Dublin LAs except Fingal have reduced it by the maximum allowed.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/valuing-your-property/determining-lpt-charge.aspx

Spanish Eyes

While I agree that Dublin City doesn't have much to entice me in there much, there are some green shoots.

Capel Street, pedestrianised

Liffey Street pedestrianised and resurfaced

Traffic measures to reduce through car traffic

And many more, it's a start but there's lots more to be done. I'm not going to have a rant but I agree that street cleaning could be a lot better for one thing. And I'm a firm believer that if things look clean and well cared for, they will usually stay that way. If they are not, they just get worse since people won't care. The broken window theory is an example in New York.

There is so much that could be done. There is plenty of money out there but the buck rests with the CEO of Dublin City Council. How one person (unelected) has so much power over the direction of the city is beyond me. I think every DCC head should be made to live in the city during his/her tenure and not park car in the free underground, eat in the canteen and feck off home to a neighbouring county or far leafy suburb.

Policing is abysmal. The world and its mother knows that there is zero police presence - in a capital city - it really is unbelievable.

So before I really have a rant and raise my blood pressure, I live in hope, and will be interested to see other views.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549094#Comment_122549094

The problem is that Dublin city planning is a joke.

The city is lackig innovation and is basically stuck in 2010. This is mostly due to the financial crisis, no real financing for major and necessary projects.

There are far too few LUAS lines, the airport ist still not connected by rail, and the discussion about a Metrolink wouldn't operate before 2035, and that would be the earliest.

Instead of endless Metrolink planning and then discovering they have no real finances, they should try to build more LUAS lines. It's by far cheaper and faster.

And yes, certain streets could be pedestrianized, with maybe a LUAS line as an exception, as car traffic in these streets is often at a gridlock anyway.

If somebody wants to build a high rise, the application nearly automatically declined. Thus the Dublin docks are so ugly as they are. No consistent style like the London docklands with brown brick everywhere. Just one ulgly tree strump after the next, it even surprises me that Salesforce tower even qualifies to be a tower while it's a tree stump.

And also, there is far too few policing around. The sense of security doesn't really exist in Dublin.

I don't think Dublin is exceptionally dirty, it's by far cleaner than London, but that's also a different size city.

Some Eastern European cities which were under communist rule have by now outpaced Dublin in terms of infrastructure and public transport. Warsaw in Poland is such and example but also Krakow.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549340#Comment_122549340

The money did not always stay in the local council. It was redistributed.

I can only find stats from 2017 but 8.8 million was needed to fund Longford Services during that year.

Only about 2 million was raised in Longford, so the majority of funding was redistributed from other councils. i.e. Dublin.

21 of the 31 local councils required top ups from the redistribution fund.

Things may have changed now, but you can see there is a question mark over raising Dublin funds when the capital is redistributing its money.

Hotblack Desiato

Many eastern European cities were far better than Dublin is today for public transport even under communist rule!

The status of Dublin city centre reflects the complete contempt most members of the Dail have for the city of Dublin and its people.

They're happy to milk them for taxes but invest practically nothing in the city compared to what a city of its size needs and deserves.

Pitting Luas vs. Metro is a joke, the city needs both and much more of both than is currently planned. No large city can function well when it is as dependent on the bus as Dublin is, and is as clogged with cars as Dublin is. Provide alternatives that work and people will use them.

Hopefully the directly elected mayor in Limerick will work out and will be adopted in Dublin sooner rather than later. A few rural councillors in north Fingal blocking that for the whole city was a complete joke. It's also a joke that because I live in SDCC I have no representation or say whatsoever in what happens in the centre of the city where I live and work. It needs one directly elected mayor for the whole city with real powers and a real budget. And yes property tax is far below what it should reasonably be, FF's disastrous abolition of domestic rates in 1977 has blighted urban areas all over Ireland ever since but hurt Dublin in particular.

tinytobe

I would dare to mention that Warsaw only started actively building a metro system after the fall of communism.

I wouldn't pit the Metrolink vs the LUAS, but building a LUAS is simply faster and cheaper. The question is, how long can Dublin wait until the airport is connected? I would say, we're looking at 10 years minimum, 15 most likely with all the usual mishaps in city planning, politics, and budget shortfalls.

Dublin would at least need 4 to 6 LUAS lines to be effictive and maybe one or two Metro lines.

But that's besides the point, the thread is about dirt and safety. The latter is a problem in Dublin, - I personally don't feel very safe as there is a lot of underfunding of policing.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549547#Comment_122549547

Agree with all this, but again on the property tax, if Dublin PT increases by 15% i want to see the full 15% invested into additional Dublin services, not redistributed down the country to the counties that cant fund their own services.

Let central govt pick up that tab.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549547#Comment_122549547

"even under communist rule!"

One of the few things Eastern European communism was generally excellent at was implementing public transport.

One reason they have outpaced Dublin is the legacy of positive attitudes to public transport as opposed to the American private car model we adopted.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549594#Comment_122549594

I don't think the property tax or an increase is a good choice. Housing is as expensive as it is and it'll make a problem even worse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549596#Comment_122549596

There was nothing nice under communism. If it was down to that, rather have no public transport at all than that implemented because of communism. It was an inhumane regime which also murdered at will.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549626#Comment_122549626

Oh FFS I'm not advocating for communism. We all know the USSR and it's satellites were evil.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549686#Comment_122549686

You were better off poor and without a job in Ireland than experience communism in one of the satellites.

But that's not so much the point.

Looking at from the the fall of communism in the 1990is until today some cities in Eastern Europe have done more than well and outpaced Dublin.

Look at Warsaw, and their infrastructure, their high rise buildings.

Look at Bratislava, high rise buildings and more to be built.

All impossible in Dublin, - and the economy totally depending on external factors, US investment, other foreigners etc..

What I am saying is some former Eastern European cities are by far more attrative by now and even better choice in housing, even safer, and maybe even cleaner.

The chronic underfinancing of the police in Ireland is a problem also that endless "we don't want NATO membership because of the evil Brits" is also a lame excuse. The question of secuity is a big one, and Ireland isn't doing too well in these areas, no matter if it's policing or military.

Many Eastern European now EU countries are simply faring better by now. ( not Hungary )

Dublin as well as Ireland is sadly often stuck in 2010 in many ways.

LambshankRedemption

Dublin as well as Ireland is sadly often stuck in 2010 in many ways.

I think you mean 1910.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549881#Comment_122549881

Naa, I think it's 2010 or 2009.

Celtic tiger was totally mismanaged at the end of things, then everything crashed.

The country was struggling with a lot of things in the aftermath. Too much fire fighting, and not much public funds available for long term projetcts.

Lot's of issues of today's Ireland are rooted in that problem.

Two LUAS lines and the port tunnel and a chronically underfunded police and armed forces are just too little in long term investment.

Expecting that one is to pay 1500 Euros for a room in a shared property certainly won't ever build you a strong and good society in Dublin. That one is certain and creating all sorts of other social problems and only fuels short term thinking.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549111#Comment_122549111

When I lived Dublin a lot of the litter problem was fly-tipping with seagulls ripping open bags almost as soon as they were dumped. Product of a botched privatisation coupled with a top-down demand to reduce landfill.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550104#Comment_122550104

Werent the council supoosed to be bringing in seagull proof waste bags? Bin collections should be part of public services again, so everyone pays for it via Property Tax. I think that would heavily reduce fly tipping. Fly tipping should also be heavily fined.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550412#Comment_122550412

There's a green electricity box on our street and for some reason a particular cohort of people think that means it's a dumping ground.

I've a camera pointed at it and any time rubbish appears scan back through the recordings to see who it was.

At the moment there's one scrote who dumps about 2am - he comes along in on an escooter, drops his waste and flies off. The week before last he left a child car seat.

I totally agree, privatising waste was a huge error. People don't want to pay the private bag fees so they just dump instead.

magicbastarder

our neighbours don't have a bin collection. they use the public bin nearby, beside the bus stop.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550412#Comment_122550412

Why can't they use plastic wheelie bins like the rest of the country ? And separate bins for compostable and non compostable stuff.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550483#Comment_122550483

Do you mean the council or the residents?

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550499#Comment_122550499

Everyone, council, residents, businesses.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550522#Comment_122550522

The Wheelie bins are there and available and you can segregate recyclables and so on.

The problem is you have to pay for those wheelie bins to be emptied by private companies. Those that dont pay come up with alternative ways to dump their rubbish.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550540#Comment_122550540

Hmmm, I have seen businesses along Dame street with loads of rubbish left about in plastic bags and the seagulls going through them. At least a couple of years ago.

Or at least I assumed businesses. Couldn't believe how stupid and preventable that situation was.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550561#Comment_122550561

Ahh yes, you get that in the city centre where the businesses take our their rubbish and I agree it would be much better if there were dedicated skips that these bags could be collected from. Multiple daily collections if needed.

Its things like that that the council should manage, but as its managed by private collections i guess the council are not involved.

Thats the issue. Council need to own it and clean it.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550483#Comment_122550483

Small terraced city cottage with no side entrance is my excuse for not having wheelie bins. (I'd absolutely love to be able to)

The garden barely fits our two bicycles, let alone a black, green and brown wheelie bin.

Even if you could manage to magically fit them in, you'd then have to drag them through the house, it just wouldn't work.

Can't keep them in the front garden as we don't have one. It's front door to path.

Only option is a low profile steel container in the back garden which the bins go into. They then get combined into bigger plastic Greyhound recycling / waste bags and left out on the street outside the house the night before collection.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550561#Comment_122550561

Leaving bags out early evening for same-day collection would have been mostly OK pre-Covid, but the long lockdown would have imprinted much more aggressive and desperate behaviour.

o1s1n

Would be fantastic if Dublin City council installed the underground trash cans that they have in Amsterdam.

Check out how big they actually are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYxaKw_CfeY

Spanish Eyes

What is wrong with continental style BIG communal bins in areas where wheelie bins cannot fit? (or indeed anywhere).

Oh I suppose it's because those who don't pay bin charges will use them and fill them up or something.

That's another reason why including bin charges with the Property Tax is needed badly, similar to council tax and community charges in European countries. Why not here? Everyone is covered with the PT, landlords and owners, should be no reason not to install big communal bins everywhere.

Iguarantee

I'm not from Dublin and I've never lived there.

Anecdotally, every time I spot a gig I want to see I choose anywhere other than Dublin to see it.

Twice this year I've flown to London and twice to Amsterdam in lieu of going to Dublin. It's expensive, manky and really doesn't stand up as a capital city in my eyes.

bartkingcole

while blame is being attributed:

• DPER/DFIN have resisted any decentralisation of decision making/budgets since the foundation of the State.
• The Dept. Of Environment/local Government is a shadow of its former sense. It has no feel for local government anymore.
• The County Manager system (which served the State reasonably well) has been eroded over the decade to the extent that things have gone backwards.
• Poor people in leadership positions in the local authority.
• Councillors with no vision and lots of hot air. Not charging the full property tax when the streets are as bad as they are was criminal.
• Lack of policing - how difficult is it?

manniot2

I know DCC are abysmal and its easy blame them but I have a feeling the other city councils across Ireland are not exactly high performing either yet the seem to manage the situation far better. This may trigger a few people here but I think this issue is down to the general population in Dublin. We seem content to live with this, there is no community spirit (tidy towns etc) and have become accustomed to living with the dirt.

In addition, the business community can bank on tourism no matter what, so have little initiative to make an effort.

During the recent elections a local politician knocked on my door and I raised the litter issue. Her response was "if we put in place more bins, people get annoyed because they are too close to their houses".

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122550621#Comment_122550621

If waste collection was not privatized, you could have rubbish bins on your street that you put your rubbish in.

Thats how it is in cities all over the world.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551001#Comment_122551001

There are lots of very nice parts of Dublin, outside the city centre. I wouldn't personally live anywhere else in Ireland.

I just dont go to the north inner city and a few other spots. Never have any issues.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551106#Comment_122551106

Plenty of tidy town initiatives in Dublin. I have often seen groups of volunteers collecting litter. Just not in the city centre.

Atlantic Dawn

How the retailers in the city continue to pay rates to get a such a sub-standard service is beyond me, the council should be forced to reduce rates where the service is proved to be below par.

Worst I see is Arnotts, spending millions to make their store stand out yet they are subject to the outside of their store at Christmas being turned in to what can only be described as something resembling a third world car boot sale every single December when street traders are allowed sell their absolute junk wares outside the entire shopfront, talk about turning the premium look of the area in to an absolute kip.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551245#Comment_122551245

I was going to post about rates. There was a comment earlier in this thread talking about raising the property tax to pay for street cleaning. There are some businesses paying 2-3000 a month in commercial rates. The rates for one business would pay for a dedicated cleaner for their street. If you have 7 other businesses, that could pay for a small army of cleaners for that street, so again you have to ask, where is that money going?

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551245#Comment_122551245

In short a lot have stopped. It is why last few years investments in Dublin retail space have had some huge write-downs.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551106#Comment_122551106

last time i heard, DCC were operating at 90% or 91% nominal headcount - and the biggest gaps were in technical grades such as engineering, because they're simply not allowed compete with private sector rates. so the staff who are there spend more time firefighting than they should, and less time doing anything forward thinking.

as is common in ireland, the urgent drives out the important.

couple that with (a more general issue) the nonsense of the likes of say leitrim or longford each having their own distinct council. it may not be true as of the most recent census, but until recently, you could ship the entire populations of both counties combined and they'd fit within the ticketed capacity of croke park.

SuperBowserWorld

Absolutely no excuses for Dublin. Largest companies in the world operating there, people paying huge property tax and commercial rates. Tiny city, should be spotless, and if anyone dumps they get fined heavily.

Dubmany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549322#Comment_122549322

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549594#Comment_122549594

You'll be glad to hear that the Government abolished the transfer of LPT monies to underfunded local authorities in 2023, so 100% of locally raised LPT is now spent locally. Only problem is that the Government now expects some of the extra LPT money to replace central funding, so not sure if we're any better off.

"the LPT allocation mechanism for 2023 is changed to allow for 100% of the estimated yield to be retained locally within the local authority area where it is collected." see https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-05-17/147/

Royale with Cheese

I've lived in Dublin for basically my entire near 40 year old life, but way out in the deep south. At no point in that time could you have paid me to live in the city centre. I haven't worked in the city centre since 2015 and basically avoid the place entirely now, good to hear it's gotten worse 👍

There seems to be less work floating around in what I do at the moment so might have to start commuting back in soon enough 😔

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551203#Comment_122551203

There's literally no space unfortunately. Right outside the door is the footpath and beyond that is on street parking with my car.

So they'd either be obstructing the path / blocking my windows or preventing me from parking my car.

We really need some sort of on street communal bins like those Amsterdam ones I have the video of above. Would be fantastic.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122553175#Comment_122553175

My aunt lives on a street just like yours. But if it was city wide waste collection, everyone gets theirs done the same way, one of those parking spaces could be replaced with the communal bin. Collected every other day. Its how many other cities do it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552763#Comment_122552763

Do we pay "huge" property tax and commercial rates ?

Are we not really cheap by the standards of all the European countries that have better stuff than us.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122553209#Comment_122553209

Are you confusing commercial rates and corporation tax? We are known throughout Europe for being very low on the latter. Commercial rates in Ireland is one of the highest in the EU.

PopePalpatine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122553182#Comment_122553182

You just know that if that was proposed it'd get shot down for "not being in keeping with Dublin's architectural heritage". Maybe a certain Irish Times contributor would get up in arms about it disrupting the natural habitat of Dublin's rats.