Homeless HAP tenant wants landlord to give her notice

Ireland Margaret

MY tenant wants to leave and wants me to give her notice. Hoping she will get a larger house as mine is now to small for her growing family. Has anyone had this request and how did it go once you have the notice. Di you return the deposit? Did the tenant leave on the date you put on the letter?

Thanks for any feedback.

watchclocker

Do not do this under any circumstances. You will have to go to and pay a solicitor to sign the affidavit and if you put a foot wrong she'll have you up in front of the RTB before you can spell compensation. She's trying to commit fraud, don't be part of it.

Princess Calla

Has she communicated this in writing anywhere (WhatsApp,txt email etc)?

If she has I'd be keeping them very secure!

I wouldn't give the notice myself as from your perspective there's too many rules around evictions especially when you will want to rent the property again ASAP.

However I'd be afraid of her ceasing paying rent to make your life awkward, hence if you have the request in writing you've a stronger case against her if she starts shenanigans.

watchclocker

The only way you can ask her to leave legally is if you have a reason covered by the rules e.g. a family member moving it and then you have to sign an affidavit to say that's true. If you sign a false affidavit you could find yourself in ain a whole lot of trouble.

Sleeper12

You would be helping them to defraud the social welfare. Personally I wouldn't be willing to lie on their behalf to defraud the state.

I'm genuinely delighted that we have a good welfare system but I do have a problem with people milking the system

Ireland Margaret

The reason for me to give her notice is, it no longer suits her needs. She now has 1 more child and another on the way, due in december, and a boyfriend. Originally she moved in 4 years ago with her daughter

The flat is tiny and is suitable for one couple.

Lots of wear and tear and I've replaced all electrodomestics during her tenancy even though it was all perfect 4 years ago. Other things have been damaged.

I honestly think it's time for her to go I'm just nervous about which route to take. Do I give her 28 days notice as she broke the contract with more people living there?

Or let it go for 180 days as she is there 4 years. Or give her 3 months and support that with it no longer suits as she has more than doubled in size.

Hap only want the termination date as they will quit her payments. However, will she be gone on that date? That's why I thought give her the legal 6 months. Her baby will be born then and it's dragged out.

Preferably if I could move this along I'd be happier. I would like to settle with 3 months notice.

It will not be available for her to move back in as that's why she is leaving. It's too small. Oh and she would like a reference. Well that will simply say the rent was paid so any future landlord will feel secure.

Princess Calla

If it doesn't suit her needs she needs to give you notice and she needs to find a new place that suits her needs.

I wouldn't touch the argument she broke lease conditions by moving someone in, when it's a case of she gave birth...with a barge pole.

Mrs OBumble

Get proper legal advice from a solicitor.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534351#Comment_122534351

Do absolutely nothing. There will be nowhere suitable for her to move to regardless of how much or little notice you give her and you evicting her won't bump her up any list she thinks she might get on. Let her sort own problems out by finding something herself and then moving out.

Sleeper12

Respectfully I'd suggest that it's up to social welfare to decide if it's big enough for her family.

Bottom line here is if she wants to move out then she should terminate. If you want her to move out then you should terminate. You shouldn't terminate if she asks you to do so

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365618/homeless-hap-tenant-wants-landlord-to-give-her-notice

MY tenant wants to leave…

Then let her give you notice, that's what she's responsible for, along with appealing to welfare that the property is no longer suitable with her growing family. I can't see where any of this requires an action on your side.

Ireland Margaret

She needs help. She hopes that if I agree it longer suits her which is true, it will give her leverage to get a bigger place. Well that's how she is thinking so she wants me to give her notice. Message from her below after I asked her to give me notice.

"If I write a letter to you that will leave me to be stranded with council that means I won't be able to get into emergency accommodation and that means i wont get back my homeless hap payment it will be reduced , what do u think ?"

Ireland Margaret

Also after speaking to RTB they said she can give 84 days notice and if she is still there on day 85 I can give her notice but it must be 180 days because she is there 4 years. So the whole thing starts again meanwhile hap stop paying after the 84 days and I'm stuck and hoping she can pay the rent until hap start paying it again. In essence it's a fruitless exercise because she is still there and overholding. I asked her in this case can she pay the rent and she said yes until hap start the payments again.... so why bother with all this if, in her head she will just stay there. Is she testing the system? Why not just like any normal person, so and find suitable accommodation and give me notice? Simple.

Ireland Margaret

Her social worker said its best if I give her notice and hap told her to get a letter from me to terminate. It seems all very confusing. That's why I'm looking for feedback if anyone has been through this scenerio. My fear is she gets notice, gets no accommodation and I'm left with her overholding and a big mess.

watchclocker

Not just overholding,, but discrimination on family grounds.

With respect, she decided to bring her boyfriend there and have another child.

Is he declared by her for means testing? She could be getting herself into an even bigger mess.

Big Bag of Chips

Let her social worker fight her case with the council for her. It is not your responsibility in any way and too much could come back to bite you.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537492#Comment_122537492

Not your problem. She should have been more responsible and keep her legs crossed rather than get pregnant while not in suitable accommodation. Don't forget there is a boyfriend too what is he doing about the fact his family is getting bigger, did he thought of consequences. They are both adults and you don't owe them facilitation of better roof over their heads on tax payers money.

In one word, their problem not yours.

Ezeoul

I wouldn't do anything that could leave you in a compromised position, legally. Literally nothing.

If your property is no longer suitable for her family, then the onus is on her to take whatever steps is necessary through the local authority, to move to a larger place.

By asking you to give her what is tantamount to a false Termination Notice, she just wants to use you to apply pressure to the Co Council to house her. Don't fall for the manipulation of "her social worker says" either.

Don't do it.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122538462#Comment_122538462

How is it discrimination? If the property is unsuitable now because the family size has increased, can’t the landlord terminate the tenancy - this is from the NoT for that specific reason:

REQUIREMENTS WHEN TERMINATING BECAUSETHE DWELLING IS NO LONGER SUITABLE TO THE ACCOMMODATION NEEDS OF THE TENANT / OCCUPYING HOUSEHOLD 

A landlord is entitled to terminate a Part 4 tenancy where the dwelling is no longer suitable to the accommodation needs of the tenant and of any persons residing with him/her, having regard to the number of bed spaces contained in the dwelling and the size and composition of the occupying household. The notice of termination must contain a statement providing certain information as set out in the notice of termination attached.

https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/old/Registration/Notice_of_termination_-_Dwelling_not_longer_suitable_for_tenants_accommodation_needs_0312-23.docx

If the tenant gives notice to leave her accommodation, it can cause her all sorts of problems with the council.

If OP gives NoT due to unsuitability of accommodation, the tenant can take the notice to the council who will then have responsibility from the date the tenant vacates. Probably the reason HAP need to know the termination date.

Not a landlord but I’d check with HAP and get a written response about the rent payments if the council do not have suitable accommodation immediately. Do they continue paying if a HAP tenant is over holding while waiting for council accommodation? If they do, then it’s up to the tenant and her social worker to speed up the council response.

Ireland Margaret

Agree, a friend said the same and she said get a local TD on board if she needs a bigger house. The social worker should be pushing for a larger house. However the tenant doesn't have the boyfriend on her hap list or he second child and now pregnant with he third. I'm not sure what's going to happen. Maybe my boiler will burst!!!

Ireland Margaret

The boyfriend wanted 2 children. The first child is from someone else.

daheff

Do nothing. If tenant wants to leave then let tenant give notice.

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122540263#Comment_122540263

He who dips his wick must pay for the oil…

Ireland Margaret

HAP stop paying from the date on the notice. If the tenant doesn't leave I must call HAP and they will start paying again. BUT will she still have her HAP payments as her family is enlarged and she is with a new born and obviously partner. I asked her in the case of them not paying can she pay the rent. She said yes until HAP start up payments again. This is why I am reluctant to do anything as it seems like a whole lot of push and shove,ending in her still there.

Has anyone been through this?

Yes I agree she needs to go. I can terminate. I just feel very uneasy about it all.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122540446#Comment_122540446

She said yes until HAP start up payments again.

I think you are right to be wary.

bureau2009

As a general observation there are a lot of boyfriends moving in unofficially with girlfriends and availing of taxpayer funded accommodation. They have no business being there. If they want to start a family they need to support themselves, their child and the mother of their child.

Ireland Margaret

All rent paid by HAP, soon to be 3 children, both working. Family and friends calling over, wrecking the place. Prefer to hand out there than their provisional centers. It's not suitable. It's time her social worker moves her out. Or I must act on this because I'm left paying for repairs. A few months ago the boyfriend asked for a new oven, and he got it!

colmufc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537448#Comment_122537448

If the tenant stays past the end date contact the local authority hap office and tell them she is still there and they need to reopen her account, they will then submit the details to the service centre who will reverse the closure and as long as the tenant keeps making payment you will keep getting it, dont give notice if the tenant wants they can give there own notice and they can source there own new property and take that to the local authority and ask that they move her tenancy to the new property if the new landlord will take her on

Crakepottle?

This is happening quite a bit at the moment. If there is a legitimate reason to end the tenancy such as an immediate family member wanting to move in or an evidence based intention to extensively renovate you don't run the risk of getting into trouble once you officially offer the property back to the tenant saying your plans have changed if those plans don't materialise. But you all need to be aware that you are most probably wasting your time and energy trying to force the hand of the local authority in this way. I imagine they are wise to it and there just aren't enough properties out there.

Ireland Margaret

A fruitless exercise, I wonder does the tenant not see this or is she desperate to try anything and the boyfriend pushing her? It can not be offered back to her, they are soon to be a family of 5. It was originally for 2. With only 2 people on the lease.

RichardAnd

This is fraud. Do not get involved.

CollyFlower

Don't do it, tell them you've spoken to your solicitor who advised you not to do it, as a false notice request could be considered fraudulent and could lead to legal consequences for both you and the tenant.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122544258#Comment_122544258

Even better- really do speak to a solicitor, and follow the advice.

There are issues all over the place here: if the owner allowed the boyfriend to move in, then they facilitated overcrowding. If they weren't asked for permission about the boyfriend, then there's an issue about why nothing was done when this came to light.

spaceHopper

You've been to soft, you should have acted when the BF moved in in the first place. I've learned the tard way too that been nice bites you in the ass.

The long and the short of it is that they have probably done as much damage as they are going to do by now and if you keep the place you'll have to renovate it. That money is gone but it's also a tax write off. 600 on a new oven v not paying rent for two years. It's a no brainer - live with the repairs.

I wouldn't give her notice, HAP will stop paying she'll stop paying and never restart. She's happy to put herself and three children into a hotel for emergency accommodation for several months till the council gift her a 4 bed house.

The way she's looking at it is - if she moves now on her own, she's not going to get homeless hap and will have to pay something towards the a new house. If she gets you to "make her homeless" she'll get it for free.

If she's on homeless HAP then maybe she's not paying anything towards her rent, which suits you perfectly as she can't stop paying it which would result in HAP stopping paying you. Right now you'll always be paid.

Can you check if all bills are up to date she's not going to sting you with arrears for gas and electricity

You could tell her you are not happy to give her notice and offer a letter telling her that the place no longer meets her needs and that she should talk to the council to source alternative accommodation. But even that could be used against you. I'd push back on giving her anything. Just keep saying you are not going to give her formal notice as that could result in HAP stopping and you aren't in a position to deal with that if she's not able to find somewhere else or pay rent.

Ireland Margaret

Exactly, I'm not able to deal with HAP quiting her payment of rent. I've asked her if after 180 days would she be able to pay the rent which she said yes. Although I believe she might say anything to get the notice in her hand.

I've no I can't give you notice. Please find another house and let me know the date you're leaving. I can then tell HAP once she is permanently gone. They stop payments.

She told me the boyfriend stays in Cork. 😒 🤔

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545701#Comment_122545701

What forms have you already signed for this tenancy? How many people are you filling out that are living there? Once her boyfriend moved in she should have reported this to social welfare. They would reevaluate her social welfare benefits.

You mentioned they got a new cooker from the the state which sounds really strange. The state will not provide a landlord with a free cooker which is what happened there. They will provide white goods if it is council housing but not private rentals. What did they do with the cooker you provided?

Ireland Margaret

HAP have never done repairs or paid for broken stuff. I bought the oven.

I was told the boyfriend lived in Cork but came up to see them. Update, she is looking for new house and talking to social worker who should appeal for larger housing. She can't stay there it's too small.

spaceHopper

@Ireland Margaret

 Update, she is looking for new house and talking to social worker who should appeal for larger housing. She can't stay there it's too small.

Let her deal with it, don't give her anything that could comeback on you.

dasa29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122546581#Comment_122546581

Question why is she talking to a social worker and not the Council Housing Dept. she is getting the HAP from?

I can get Homeless Hap as I am on the housing list for nearly 10 years, and I was told that as soon as I get

a place who will take HAP, that once approved I have to move to the Council housing transfer list within 2 weeks to keep all my time on the housing list.

https://www.inou.ie/information/other-benefits/housing-assistance-payment/

From the Above link

"When you are approved for HAP, you will receive a letter and a form to apply for a transfer from your local authority. If you apply for a transfer within two weeks of the date of the letter, any time you spent on the housing list before you entered HAP will be taken into account when your local authority considers your application.

This means that you can be placed on your local authority’s transfer list at the point you left the housing list. In other words, you do not have to start from scratch. You can apply for transfer at a later date too, but your previous waiting time on the housing list will not count."

"Once you have been approved for HAP, you will be expected to stay in the same property for at least two years. However, you may be able to apply for a new HAP payment for another property sooner if your circumstances change.

For example, if you receive a job offer in another town, or if your family has another child and the property is no longer big enough."

tvjunki

Do not do it. You will end up in a worse situation. I wonder if HAP knows the boyfriend is living there? The council decides if the property is suitable and at the moment the council has not told them to move.

Your tenant will have to wait for the baby to be born and do a reassessment. I know of a grandmother who has a granny flat(shed) in the garden. Her daughter, daughters boyfriend living in the with her and a child. She was pregnant again and they were told wait. She has since had the child and the council have not housed her. She is housed but it may not be perfect but she has to ask the council not you.

What happens if you do give notice and the council offers her and her children a room in a hotel or hostel? The house is already damaged so delaying the moveout date will at least give you then rent. You know you have to re do the property once she is gone.