Difficult co-worker

Schweizer

Hi,

I have been working in the public sector for a number of years after spending over 10 years in the private sector. I have to say I love the perks! And the fact that the need to work past 5 pm is a rarity in the extreme! Delighted with the move apart from one thing... A co-worker!

The co-worker while being a decent person is impossible to work with! They've been in the place for donkeys years and have incredible knowledge on all the processes so hats off to them in that regard. The issue I have with them is that while they are helpful it is very much do everything their way, consult with them on every piece of work and communicate every interaction with other staff members or risk offending them. While I said I do think they are a decent person, it is at odds with the fact due to their tenure and connections they seem to be able to manipulate situations and torpedo things they don't like. Control Freak probably best describes the person.

So I'm just putting this post out there to see if any other worker has encountered something similar and how you've dealt with it? Also specific to the ps does anyone have advice in the longer term how to change team\department? I've done some professional certifications last year but just looking for additional advice. I look on public jobs a lot but I am based outside Dublin and on a relatively high grade so finding something similar elsewhere will take some time!!

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Augme

There's not much information to go. Are they the same grade as you? Are they on your team? As A general rule of thumb I don't particularly care if I offend my co-workers. Now, while at all times I'd avoid it if possible, but sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make a cake. It might be worth just ignoring them and stop consulting with them on everything unless it's specifically required as they are your manager.

3DataModem

This is the downside of the public sector, the private sector (generally) is better at weeding out jerks (even "brilliant jerks") eventually.

MrMusician18

What's your grade? If you're an AP just bide your time and mobility at the first opportunity. If they are not your manager then you will just have to feed them information on a need to know basis.

Flinty997

Gatekeepers in many organisations, public and private. Unless you're senior to them, little you can do.

Schweizer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122496934#Comment_122496934

Yeah they are at the same grade and on the same team. We are both ENG II in a specialised role. I've probably gone through the guts of a year trying to ignore them but it tends to impact greatly on my own productivity. I don't want to say too much but the manager situation is a bit odd also so it means they are very little help in resolving it.

Medium to long term I do feel moving off the team is the only solution. Mobility isn't an option as it's ps not cs.

65535

They will get promoted - they normally promote those that they can't fire

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364111/difficult-co-worker

I worked with a complete bellend for about 5 years and he eventually left. He had been there for years, wasn't a very nice person and eventually the opportunity came about where a few of us were able to push him out. Did I mention he was my boss? Organisations do change over time and before you know it things will change. Maybe you are not there long enough to assert your position but give it time as it will change. If the opportunity comes up to work somewhere else, then take that opportunity but don't worry too much about it as most of the time difficult co-workers either mellow over time or realise the world around them is changing, nobody likes working with them and they leave.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499912#Comment_122499912

Professional technical like eng II can't mobility in the CS either. That's only available to admin grades.

The only thing you can do is to try to get assigned different work until you find another place to move on to.

Flinty997

That's what I've tended to do with gate keepers. Left them to their own area and carved out my own.

But being careful to document processes and work items so it's clear (though subtle) that any bottle necks or delays are under some else's remit. But I'm hitting it out of the park where I'm given free reign.

Because you want to be can do, not can't do.

Also part of gatekeeping is to make everyone else look bad. So that's the battle.

Schweizer

Thanks for all the responses so far, some good bits of advice there.

One other question specifically related to the ps. I do tend to see roles in another particular ps org at the same grade where it's a specified purpose contract for a maximum duration up to some month and year in the future. Is there a way of somehow organizing a secondment or transfer to this role while keeping the permanency of your current role intact?! Something similar to the way the former cmo was getting a role in ucd\trinity before the scandal broke or the way TD's who were teachers can get their posts held open.

Probably clutching at straws but since I've joined the ps there does seem to be a lot of schemes and circulars that the average joe soap ps worker wouldn't be aware of!

Rescue Blues

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499912#Comment_122499912

If you're equal to them then how is it that they manage to make you feel that you need to consult with them? So how did he (I hate saying 'they') get offended the first time you didn't do things his way? If you offended him enough, would he end up going to management about you? Is that what it boils down to? I suspect when you say that he is decent, you mean only on paper. You may be about to find out what he's really like though.

Are you the only person who works closely enough with this person to have such a problem? How do others deal with him?

Rescue Blues

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499943#Comment_122499943

So how did you manage to get the upper hand over your boss?

Schweizer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532982#Comment_122532982

Sorry for the slow response.

The area we are responsible for is very narrow so a lot of work naturally overlaps. They'd say passive aggressive things like we are on the same team, we need to keep each other in the loop\communicate better. Sounds great in theory but in reality it's just another attempt to keep control over me.

I don't want to say much about management as I might give myself away. Only thing I'd say is management is useless to either party in resolving things!

When I say he's decent what I mean is when you're talking to him about non-work related things or when you get glimpses into his personal life he comes across as a decent human being but when it comes to work he seems to be manipulative and just an all round difficult person. Using back channels to sway decisions or to put a stop to \ slow down projects & work which he doesn't agree with.

No, there are a number of people past and present which have had a difficult time interfacing with him but most wouldn't be on the same team so difficulties are not as frequent! It tends to be people with less tenure in the organisation who have recent experience working in other organisations.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532994#Comment_122532994

In my situation, a family member joined middle management and reported all the issues with the boss back to his dad, who owned the company. Before this, the dad had buried his head in the sand. You really have to outperform that other person, stay one step ahead of them all the time, and make them think about their flaws. You want them to start questioning themselves, so they either change or leave the company. I’ve also worked with a guy who replaced me in a previous role and felt threatened by me. I was always respectful to him, but he hated that I used to have his job. He was quite unpleasant towards me around others, so I called him out in front of a group of people, and he stopped. These things always work themselves out. A workplace doesn’t stay miserable forever, even the worst ones. Negativity has a way of finding its way out over time.

Flinty997

"....a workplace doesn't stay miserable forever..."

Don't really agree with that. Many companies or business area have terrible reputation for working conditions or corporate culture that exists for decades. Or People that have terrible reputations. They establish a terrible work environment that persists long after they leave.

It's often not possible to bypass or outperform these people. For sure try things. But ultimately I think you have to move away from these people so not to caught in their web.

Rescue Blues

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545226#Comment_122545226

A family member of the boss joined management? as in his brother or sister dished the dirt on him.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545381#Comment_122545381

The longer you are in a job, the more immune you become to all the bull. Workplaces are shaped around the people that work in them so it's nonsense that they don't change over time.

Flinty997

Do you think work environment improved over time working for Trump, Musk, Jobs, did they mellow with time? There's people as dysfunctional as that in every work place. They might be at any level. Not just at the top.

Ray Palmer

Just to add a slightly different view on this. I worked in a place over 10 years but other people would rotate around me. Over years we tried many different methods and the process had been refined over time. To the extent when people new to the area would make a suggestion to change something they found cumbersome. You could explain why things were done that way or the problems doing it a different way. The "new" person would be sure they were right and go to a "new" manager and make the proposal and they wouldn't know the reasons for the process so agree.

As an experienced person in the area I would highlight why it didn't work before and why it won't work now either. Overruled and they attempt the change only to abandon it months later with productivity having dropped or other issues coming up. Bare in mind the process is fully documented beforehand but the majority of the staff never fully read it nor follow it. Often the change in the process is an attempt to find a way to do something that is covered by the existing process and the problem is actually people not following the process they are meant to.

Roughly every 18 months somebody would suggest changing a process for some "insight" they had. After many failed attempts while I was there I stopped having the discussion with the person who came up with it and talk to the manager and show them the failed attempts doing the same thing before or why we do it the way we do. Some managers listened and others didn't but by the end ever manager would tell the new manager if I gave them a reason to not do something to listen.

I left 4 years ago because another manager came in and insisted on changes while ignoring warnings and within 6 months of them joining productivity drop and 4 massive bugs were deployed live. He tried to blame me and that was the last straw. I never interfered or tried to slow things but did not raise any concerns when I saw issues as when I did I was accused of trying to reverse the new process. They were in the process of reinstating the old process when I left and it took them a good 2 years before performance was back on track.

I could have been accused of going behind peoples' back or torpedoing an idea but what I was doing saved so much hassle of endless discussions. I find most people ignore processes in place before they come up with "new" ways to do something. One of the old rules was make sure payment processing is completed fully before signing off on a change to any payment processing change no matter what the developer says. New rule if the developers says it is only a minor change and won't affect any other payments only test internal process and sign off. This effectively removed UAT and had a tester taking the word of he developer on how to test it. So what happened when an inexperienced tester and inexperienced developer meet? Worse an experienced developer tells a junior tester they only have to test a small part of the system?

I was a contractor so it wasn't really me stuck in a place but it just wasn't worth the money to stay in a place that just wanted to repeat mistakes over and over again while never saying I told you so.

I know someone who is stuck in a situation where they have to work with someone who has been in the job for every and is obsessed with the old contracts and how much better there were and how much the new staff is losing out or else they person is obsessed with what went on years ago.

The person I know is losing the will to live their manager is trying to help subtly but there is not a lot they can do she goes for a walk on her breaks to try and avoid this person even eating her lunch outside to try and avoid them.

There are all sorts of difficult co-workers and sometimes there is no answered.