New electric shower issue

Umpalumpa

Lads

New electric shower fitted and only used twice.Each time it has tripped after about 45 seconds.We have 2 electric showers but never had an issue before.

I only had 1 electric shower on at a time and no other appliances

IIs this an issue with the shower itself or something else

JL spark

would you post a picture of your fuseboard,

drury..

That would be unexpected on a like-for- like shower replacement

As above anyway , pic of board and what's tripping .

And some info on the work done and whether carried out by a REC

Sleeper12

It's very unlikely to to be the shower. A shower trip is usually instant. Likely to be a faulty / undersized isolation switch or RCBO. It could be a screw in the cable but again I'd expect instant tripping for that

No mention of the installer. No priority or non priority board mentioned. Sounds like a DIY or handyman installation. I would strongly recommend getting a REC out to bring it up to code & cert it for you.

Umpalumpa

There Ya go

Umpalumpa

Thanks for the reply.It was installed by a registered plumbing company.I originally had a power shower and replaced it with an electric one

Umpalumpa

After the initial install it stopped working.He came back and replaced the original switch with this one

Tow

The wattage of the new shower may well be higher. The 'traditional' Triton T90 used in Ireland has increased in wattage to 9kw, the first version was 8kw, then it went up to 8.5kw.

Sleeper12

When you say registered plumbing company, who did the electrics? Only a REC can do this work. The switch shouldn't be in the hot press & two showers using the same regular RCBO is definitely wrong.

I'd get plumbing company to send out a REC to put everything right. If they don't then report them to Safety Ireland.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493310#Comment_122493310

An electric shower used a lot more power than a power shower, which just pumps water.

drury..

As above time for a REC , there's something dodgy at play and unlikely to be the new shower

Is there a 2- shower controller elsewhere ?

Possibly a dodgy install caused a lowered IR reading or something else in the wiring /wiring setup/ protective devices

Very low on information here

"A new shower trips an RCBO" is about all you can surmise here

Umpalumpa

The lads who installed the shower also installed switch

This is it

Is it the shower RCBO that's tripping?

Doolittle51

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493325#Comment_122493325

Yes and if an electric shower was installed in place of a power shower, it would most likely mean the existing cables were insufficiently sized. Most likely 10sq required for the electric shower. OP, did they install a new cable from the fuseboard? Any way to see the cable, is it routed through the attic? And what size is the shower RCBO? A close up pic of it showing all the details would help.

There should be a priority board if you have 2 electric showers. Any sign of this OP?

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493303#Comment_122493303

It sounded from the ops description that there was no controller fitted

Hopefully they have at least "bunched" the 2 shower cables direct into the rcbo and are using it as a crude overload controlling device

Worst case scenario they've teed off 1 cable to separate instant showers

Umpalumpa

I'll have to have a look further when I get home.

II'll Be ring the plumber shortly to get some answers

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493405#Comment_122493405

That's your problem right there

"Plumber"

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493405#Comment_122493405

You need to get a cert from him. This means he has to use a REC to bring it up to minimun standarts before cert is issued. Any problems from his, tell him you are reporting him to safe electric. People passing themselves off as REC can get large fine & jail term. He passed himself off as REC even without saying so because only REC is allowed by law to carry out this type of work

drury..

An unknown shower is tripping an unknown RCBO in an unknown wiring setup.

About all that's known here

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493338#Comment_122493338

Think that's exactly it, sounds like they installed the electric shower on the power shower wiring, which is most likely 2.5sq.

drury..

Just noticed the op said these plumbers installed a switch and changed from power to instant shower and it didn't work the 1st time after install and now it's not working 2nd time after the callback

Presumably the OP hasn't been supplied a cert ?

Need Safe Electric involved or a REC out to resolve this safely

JL spark

I’d say what happened was , 2.5 circuit was powering the old shower with a switch fuse spur (13amp )

New shower was added and fuse popped on first use ,

Came back and put in a 45 amp switch , but rcbo is tripping due to load on cable ,

Whole lot needs pulling out and a 10ml cable needs installed by a REC

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494489#Comment_122494489

I thought something like that myself. Isolation switch shouldn't be in the hot press but the fact that it's so low does suggest there was a spur here for the power shower.

drury..

Hmm, that would explain the need for replacement switch and subsequent tripping of rcbo

I'd still be surprised if this happened as the level of cowboy incompetentence needed is extreme

standardg60

I imagine it's the RCD that's tripping, as the power shower wouldn't have been on the RCBO, just the original electric one?

I'd say they don't know what the issue is at all, and just replaced the switch in the 'hope' it would fix it.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494689#Comment_122494689

Probably not , as an instant shower connected to "main rcd" would then likely trip an associated mcb on overload

Unless there was a N-E issue causing main rcd to trip on high loading, unlikely

Dont know if op has specified what's tripping

Anyhow there's a definite cowboy factor at play here .

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494689#Comment_122494689

Agree. That's why I was asking if it's the RCBO. What's tripping will give a good idea of the issue

Umpalumpa

So I spoke to the plumber and he said he knows what the issue is and will get it sorted.

I'll wait to see who comes over so I can ask if he's an electrician or another plumber.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495412#Comment_122495412

3rd time lucky , joke shop electrics

Anyway I'm out . Posting half the day and you haven't even confirmed what's tripping

Another joke

Sleeper12

He could be an electrician or plumber but tell you plumber. Even if he is an electrician that isn't enough according to the law. Only a REC can carry out the work you describe but the photos you showed that it's doubtful if any type of electrician did the work.

You must receive a cert. Does not matter if plumber or electrician or pat the postman. By law they must issue you with a cert. Cert can only be issued by REC. There is a a fair amount of work needed before a cert can be issued.

Can't stress this enough. By law they must issue a cert. Don't except anything less

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495452#Comment_122495452

this from sleeper

There’s been some great replies and advice here from others too

It’s a criminal offence for anyone other than a registered electrical contractor to do electrical work in a bathroom and a certificate has to be provided along with test records

Umpalumpa

Sorry but I do 12 hour shifts and haven't been home yet.Im 99% sure it's the emersion switch that's tripping

Doolittle51

Yea, there's something very wrong there so. The old power shower might have been spurred off the immersion circuit. Now they've fed the electric shower from that spur and it's tripping the immersion mcb because it's overloading the circuit. It can't be stressed enough how potentially dangerous this could be. There's a very real risk of fire and or electrocution. Don't even think about using that shower again until it's been signed off by a REC. You should really consider reporting this to safe electric as I'm sure it's not this plumbers first rodeo.

drury..

Ah well that got me back😁

So looks like jl spark had it right

Power shower spurred off immersion cct.

Shower swopped out for instantantaneous unit.

13A switched spur swopped out for 45A DP switch and its now tripping 20A mcb on overload

Criminal if true

Do not let them back in the house

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495639#Comment_122495639

Exactly, they've wired straight to the existing.

Looking forward to the comments now 🙂

Umpalumpa

These comments are very worrying.Is this an easy fix for a qualified electrician?

I will push the plumber to cover the cost qualified electrician but I'm preparing for him to argue this.

drury..

I hadn't even considered the possibility as it seemed so unlikely and criminally negligent

I remember indeed my inspector telling me of a case where an instantaneous shower had been wired in a light flex which melted and the homeowner was electrocuted

It's actually worse that they bypassed the switched spur protection and sent the overload upstream to the mcb

And you can be sure that "common rcd" has not been tested

If this is the scenario that played out

Doolittle51

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495707#Comment_122495707

In order to be able to have 2 electric showers in one house, a 'priority board' needs to be installed. This only allows one shower to be used at a time. If both showers were used at the same time, it'd most likely blow the main fuse, so it's not allowed.

The priority board is fed from your fuseboard. The new shower needs to be fed with 10sq cable from the priority board and the existing shower needs to be wired back to the priority board too.

It's a fair amount of work, depending on the location of your fuseboard etc. I'd say €600 minimum including parts, but these days could be closer to €1000.

Might be easier to put a power shower back in instead of an electric one.

Umpalumpa

Jesus that's a nice price.Ill be amazed if the plummer will fork out that price to get this rectified

drury..

Had forgotten about controller with the realization they had probably done a swop in shower types

There's also the issue of installation overload now as you don't have a shower controller

That's 2 serious issues if true and merits a prosecution

Umpalumpa

Just tested the shower and it is the immersion switch that's tripping.only trips when the shower is on full power.

Have requested confirmation from the plummer that it's an electrican that's coming out to fix it but no reply.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495877#Comment_122495877

I'm beginning to wonder if you did this install yourself as you don't seem too perturbed that it potentially put your life at risk and don't seem too interested in reporting said company.

Umpalumpa

Definitely didn't do this myself as I'd struggle to hang a picture on the wall

I've contacted an inspector and ill see what he says.

I am also waiting for the plummer to get back to me to see if an electrican is coming out before I start reporting him

Doolittle51

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495922#Comment_122495922

Crossed my mind too. Hard to believe a plumber wouldn't know the requirements for electric shower v's power shower, but then again….

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495919#Comment_122495919

That's confirmation anyway of the 2 very serious issues involved

If in fact you are not the mystery plumber yourself as a poster has mentioned 😁

Wouldn't surprise me now tbh😁 as I originally considered this scenario too unlikely for any half reputable company

I can't envisage any competent plumber having carried out these particular works never mind a spark

Doolittle51

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495932#Comment_122495932

But you still went against all advice here and turned the shower on again to test it, even with the risk of fire and electrocution.

Umpalumpa

I can assure you I have no idea about plumbing or electrics.

I don't want to name the company(Not sure if I would be allowed to )

Umpalumpa

Ye that was a bit stupid alright.wont be turning it on again until its sorted

drury..

Indeed the op is very relaxed about all this and is happy for Fawlty Towers Plumbing to call again 😁

Im leaning to the above posters theory that the op is said plumber

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495953#Comment_122495953

Assuming you have an invoice can you post a pic of it leaving out the company details?

Umpalumpa

Still waiting foe the invoice.He said he will send it today.once he sends it I'll post it up