Should August Count As Autumn

squonk

I know it doesn’t meteorological but at the same time on an Irish seasonal level August really feels like an autumnal month. This is off the back of discussion on the model thread where this month looks wet and generally cool. Growing up in the west of Ireland and based back there again now, not much has changed since I was a kid. I mainly remember August being cool and showery if not actually very wet. The shortening evenings definitely add an autumnal feel. It seems like August is a predominantly cool, wet month. I’ve always felt that the old tradition of Spring running Feb-May and summer may-July is based off what people living here actually observed.

Can anyone remember a dry settled spell in August?

Gonzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058363183/should-august-count-as-autumn

The last warm and settled spell in August was August 2022 and before that I think it was August 2003. Septembers have a much better record of warm dry spells than August.

Larbre34

What do you mean count? Either it is, or isn't.

And meteorological (ie the science) makes August a Summer month, so thats what it is.

Leave the Celtic calendars where they belong, in ancient times.

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058363183/should-august-count-as-autumn

Autumn is August, September, and October.

Can anyone remember a dry settled spell in August?

Yes, there were many in the 1970s.

Thunder87

I think the reality is we don't get 3 months of summer in Ireland so it's a bit of a nothing argument.

In a typical year I'd say August to March is autumn with a few days here and there between Dec-March where it feels like winter. April to mid June is a sort of spring/autumn hybrid then late June to early August is a summer/autumn hybrid and similar to 'winter' we get a handful of here and there between May and September where it feels summery.

Point being, I think the Roman's were wrong when they called us Hibernia, it should have been Autumnia instead (though I guess an Italian Autumn is better than our summers so from their perspective maybe they were right!)

Supercell

Ah here, not this shite again, its the weather forum ,meteorological summer is June, July, August, back to Hibernia with ye.

https://www.met.ie/cms/assets/uploads/2023/10/Young-Primary-Students-Meteorological-Seasons-Met-Eireann.pdf

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472541#Comment_122472541

isn’t this a bit like time zones though? Ireland is too far west to really belong to GMT, and even the U.K times varied from town to town in the past: it was the arrival of the railways that made it necessary to enforce a rather artificial single time zone over the whole country.

So it’s not really “science” that defines when autumn begins in Ireland - it’s just that it’s easier for modern technology to impose a single set of dates over a much more nuanced reality.

In Australia the aboriginal people identified 6 seasons (this may vary by region) - but clearly they know their country and its weather better than the Europeans who arrived with their four seasons. Yet in most of Australia you’ll still hear people using the European scheme even though it doesn’t fit at all. Is that really science?

squonk

Thanks Volchitsa. I was just back to post sharing similar. This is what I meant by the thread. I’m not bugging up pagan ceremonies or dumping on scientific standards but it’s just that, for us here, the scientific standard seems a bit out of kilter really. I’d certainly put more faith in a system that worked for Tiana’s if years than an imposed scientific standard and, for us I think, August being an autumn month holds water as it’s generally cool and wet and plants start going into seed.

odyboody

So what we go back to summer again when we have a warm September?

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475139#Comment_122475139

um, no. Yeah you are spot to her since nice weather in September but by then the darts are getting much shorter and evenings getting cold.

I think we should consider it winter. Everyone in the house is complaining about the cold. I've the heating on.

Cluedo Monopoly

The summer in my head is always the 6 weeks either side of the June solstice. It's all about light and opportunities rather than heat for me. It has worked out well in recent years because May & June were nice and dry. June 2023 was a classic.

A nice August is a bonus but we definitely are losing the light now. I swim a lot in August because the sea temps are nice.

Mannesmann

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475139#Comment_122475139

Great idea! August can be poor but then so can July recently. May and early June were pretty good this year.

DellyBelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472609#Comment_122472609

Agree with you on this...Autumn as far as I'm concerned is August. September and October. I was called a muppet on the summer thread for saying that by some bully called Oscar but that's what I was always thought from my school days

SynBin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475932#Comment_122475932

"Thought"? I guess you meant "taught". You may have a point about the Irish summer being classified differently to the rest of Europe, however.

DellyBelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122476074#Comment_122476074

Apologies yes of course taught....maybe my schooling wasn't as good as I thought it was...

Thunder87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475623#Comment_122475623

I remember reading on here a few years ago someone said they liked to define our seasons by light rather than temperature and thought it made a lot of sense. Temperature fluctuates so little in Ireland that using it as the sole definition of what our seasons are is a bit stupid, as is often noted it's not at all unusual for a day in December and June to have the same temperatures.

I'd say the same about winter where the depths of winter to me is usually late November to early Jan where its dark at 4pm and usually wet and windy. By mid Jan the days are noticeably lengthening and it no longer feels as bleak or 'winter like' even if technically it might be 0.5 degrees colder or whatever.

compsys

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058363183/should-august-count-as-autumn

The seasons are based on warmth really. And nearly every year August is the second warmest month of the year. Whether it feels like it is another thing. And this year will likely be no different. In this East at least 9 of the first 10 days are likely to break 20º. That's summer weather.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475932#Comment_122475932

Yes. I was the same. We were taught the Celtic seasons. Not the meteorological seasons. I'd imagine things have moved on and the kids are taught differently now.

compsys

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122474476#Comment_122474476

Except it's not generally cool. At least by Irish standards.

Almost every August will be warmer than June and definitely May.

Take last year in Dublin. We'd a record breaking June and a poor August. Yet August was still around 0.1º warmer for the month.

But on average August is 4.5º warmer than May and just under 2º warmer than June.

If August is too cool to be summer than what is May and June?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122476774#Comment_122476774

In much of France, September is generally warmer than June, especially in coastal parts because the sea has heated up over the summer which stops air temperatures from cooling down at night, unlike May/June. This can go on until October, yet October is definitely considered Autumn.

(I think the person talking about daylight length makes a good point. Maybe that would be a better way of identifying seasons in Ireland.)