RMS Olympic/Titanic!

The Golden Miller

We talk about big companies making bad decisions, some that baffle us, and make no sense. But the scrapping of the Olympic must be up there in a league of it's own, considering the cultural phenomenon that the Titanic is? Why and why and why again?

It was during the great depression and to give people in Jarrow work. That excuse doesn't hold up. They had loads of ships to be scrapped.

People say that the Titanic phenomenon wasn't a thing back then. It was. They tried to get survivors into films the minute it happened. It carried huge interest and intrigue from the minute the sinking happened. It was a cultural phenomenon even by 1935.

We have billionaires looking to remake the Titanic, people dying to see the wreck, yet we had a fully working and functional replica that was sent to the scrap yard.

Imagine the Olympic sitting outside the Titanic museum, and you could literally walk around the Titanic in person. Not sure if Cunard owned it by this stage, but with all the hysteria around Titanic, the decision to scrap the Olympic doesn't come in for enough attention or outrage.

Even in 1935 this had to be a baffling decision, no? And what's more, alot of the Titanic cultural stuff like it being the "unsinkable ship", was actually coined for the Olympic as the first of the 3 sister ships. All that fanfare on maiden voyage, biggest ship in the world etc, was actually in relation to the Olympic.

Just think how amazing it would be if it wasn't needlessly sent to the scrap yard? Surely a baffling decision even in 1935, no?

BrianD3

Large ships are a massive headache to preserve, that's why so few are. The Americans have done a great job of preserving some of their WW1 and WW2 era battleships but they are good at preserving industrial and military heritage. It has taken a major effort and anyway some of those ships were in active service as recently as 1991.

While there would have been some interest in Olympic in 1935 there wouldn't there be anywhere enough for it to sustain itself as a tourist or cultural attraction. No mass toruism then and decades before affordable air travel. Olympic would have ended up rusting, leaking and deteriorating with rows over who was responsible for it and how to fund its preservation. Also, by 1939, people had other things to worry about.

tphase

the Quay House in Clifden has a piece of the Olympic, the newell post at the bottom of the stairs IIRC

whisky_galore

Old ships are expensive to maintain. Sure we, a rich country, couldn't preserve a tiny (in Titanic terms) ex Aran Islands ferry, one of the last if not the last Dublin built steel hulled vessels.

I'd bet if anyone proposed keeping Olympic in the 30s during the Depression they'd be criticised for it being a waste of money. The Americans are mentioned above but their last American built luxury liner SS United States is sitting, rotting and could well go to the scrappers.

The RMS Queen Mary on Long Beach is gutted internally and her long term future is also in the balance.

Also bear in mind, in the 30s the Titanic sinking was in living memory and maybe people may not have been as keen to see a reminder still hanging around.

gipi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465695#Comment_122465695

There's a hotel in Alnwick, UK, which installed the Olympic's first class lounge as a restaurant when it was sold off - furniture and wall panelling (saw it on TV the other night)

Edit: here's a pic. The hotel has a staircase from the Olympic too

https://www.classiclodges.co.uk/the-white-swan/the-olympic-restaurant/

Atlantic Dawn

At 25 years old it would have needed a major refit even if to just act as a static floating hotel, it would be far cheaper and easier to maintain a shorebased luxury hotel especially at that time.

I do like what they did with the QE2 moving it to Dubai and using it as a luxury hotel but it took deep deep pockets from the government of Dubai to do this, 2.7million man-hours required to upgrade it apparently.

https://www.qe2.com/en/

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465695#Comment_122465695

Ye the Titanic museum in Belfast, is for all intents and purposes, the Olympic museum. Everything in it on display is from the Olympic pretty much

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467339#Comment_122467339

They made a choice they would not display artifacts recovered from the Titanic itself for ethical reasons.

Capt'n Midnight

It was scrapped during the Great Depression. Had it survived a little longer it probably would have become a troopship during WWII

The Mauritania sister of the Lusitania was scrapped at the same time. It almost certainly would have become a troopship during WWII as it was a good bit faster.

BrianD3

Short video on the issues encountered when preserving a large early 20th century ship, in this case the USS Texas which became a museum ship in 1948 after serving in both world wars. Was taking on 2000 gallons of water per minute at one stage. Major logistical issues even getting her into a dry dock which is essential for mainteance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7k1oe2-_w

If RMS Olympic had been preserved in 1935, strong possibility that she would have been scrapped anyway for metal in WW2. Or else turned into a troop carrier and possibly sunk. Or scrapped after the war if it survived.

If Olympic did make it through WW2 and the immediate post war period intact as a museum ship, strong possibility that whoever was responsible for it wouldn't have kept on top of the maintenance resulting in it becoming a pile of scrap anyway by the 1960s.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465500#Comment_122465500

Also, it's worth pointing out that the Olympic-class ships were basically the last gasp of a dying technology, being equipped with some rather gargantuan vertical triple-expansion steam engines at a time when steam turbines were already beginning to make inroads into military use, with civilian use not far off, and indeed becoming common on ocean liners in the interwar period. This made the type of "interim" use for purely tourist cruises that saved ships such the SS Rotterdam impractical and uneconomical, even if there had been sufficient paying clientele.

Then, there's the whole attitude towards the transatlantic ocean liner trade. Ships such as the Olympic, or later Normandie, Bremen, Europa, or the Rotterdam that I mentioned weren't just ocean liners. These were "ships of state", status symbols of the nations building them, and showcases for the industrial, societal and artistic prowess and achievements of the nations that built them, rather than "just" being luxurious. In such a situation, it was pretty much unthinkable to keep older ships around when your competitors were busy working on a ship that would be much larger and more modern.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468038#Comment_122468038

I visited The Titanic exhibition in Las Vegas, lots of items recovered from the wreck, while it was interesting I felt kind of guilty coming out of it having seen some of the personal items taken from what was essentially a mass grave.

Questions have to be asked about the selling of items like actual coal recovered from the wreck, totally off the wall stuff to want to own…

https://thetitanicstore.com/titanic-authentic-coal-rms-flag/

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468208#Comment_122468208

It would have been scrapped after the war. HMS Warspite was and it had history.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468038#Comment_122468038

Thats interesting, would of just assumed it was because the Olympic stuff was in better condition. It makes no difference, it's literally all the same stuff.

These theories about it actually being the Olympic that sunk, names changed for insurance reasons, annoy me. Even if that was the case, it makes no difference, which one had what name. It's arbitary, they're the same ship regardless

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468626#Comment_122468626

The vast majority of stuff on board was interchangeable, supplied out of warehouses for the entire fleet, eg crockery was marked with just the White Star insignia, not the ship name. Even the ships bells were not marked with a name.

Some major components were marked with a hull number, to be seen on the props on the seabed to this day so blowing the swap conspiracy theory out of the water.

rock22

@The Golden Miller "Imagine the Olympic sitting outside the Titanic museum, and you could literally walk around the Titanic in person. Not sure if Cunard owned it by this stage, but with all the hysteria around Titanic, the decision to scrap the Olympic doesn't come in for enough attention or outrage. "

I think you are forgetting the real feelings of the Cunard and Holland & Wolff and the people of Belfast during the 30's to 60's. There was a real feeling of shame and not wanting to be reminded of what they perceived as their personal failure.

It took this long time for those feelings to change enough for a museum to be built in the first place.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468878#Comment_122468878

I always thought it funny Belfast pushing the Titanic as a source of pride when the thing sank on its maiden voyage.

witchgirl26

While there might have been a huge interest in the couple of years following the Titanic diaster, a lot of that died away after the inquries happened because the survivors needed to move on. Couple that with the depression & you get to a point where people were more interested in where their next meal was coming from rather than history. The interest revived in the 1950's then with the publication of Walter Lord's A Night To Remember.

The cost of preserving a ship just to have it as museum is huge. And personally, while I am fascinated by the Titanic & all about it, I'm not sure how much I'd want to wander round the Olympic. It would be lovely in one sense to see it but it might feel a bit too morbid to have preserved something as a replica to a horrible tragedy.

Tippman24

A few years ago the BBC made a series called Coast about people etc living on the coastline of UK, Ireland and parts of Europe. One of their presenters was at the Harland and Wolff shipyard in Belfast at the Titanic exhibit. He asked the guide if the Titanic was a source of shame on the yard and received the reply "She was okay when she left here."

Cookie_Monster

It was scrapped to dispose of any evidence of the ole switch-a-roo that took place of course.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469210#Comment_122469210

It didn't sink because of the work put into it though. They built the largest, most luxurious ocean liner of its day. That should be a source of pride. They weren't responsible for the decisions that led to it hitting an iceberg.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469210#Comment_122469210

Probably wouldn't have happened only for worldwide interest being blown out of all proportion over a movie where an old lady recalls getting good dick on a cruise.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469545#Comment_122469545

Not just one but hundreds of ships of all shapes and sizes. And it's great they actually have a vessel of that time that was built there you can go into and walk around.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469325#Comment_122469325

I can never make sense of people discussing that. Even if it was true, it wasn't, it's completely arbitary. They were the same ship and one sank regardless

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468878#Comment_122468878

Not really sure why Cunard would be ashamed of a White Star Line ship sinking...

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473055#Comment_122473055

Cunard & White Star Line merged in the mid-1930's because of the depression & then dropped the White Star bit just after WW2.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473309#Comment_122473309

So 20+ years after the Titanic sank. My point stands.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473800#Comment_122473800

20 years is not a very long time and the merged Cunard-White Star company would have been wary about associating itself with the Titanic.

"Come see our preserved RMS Olympic, sister ship of the Titanic that sank. How about a trip on our latest ships the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth. They won't sink"

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473800#Comment_122473800

Yeah Cunard wanted to distance itself from the Titanic as it wasn't the owner at the time but it merged with the owner and was then known as Cunard, so there was a legacy there of the shame of the Titanic sinking. They couldn't point to it being a competitors ship anymore. It was theirs. By merging, they took on the legacy which included the shame of it from an owners perspective.

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467139#Comment_122467139

You may be right, but nobody is going to queue to see an Irish built ferry, whereas people would queue to see one of the largest ships ever built which also happened to be the twin of the possibly most famous ship in history.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469210#Comment_122469210

They got tours of the Troubles and a Troubles Museum too, something you'd think they'd rather forget.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122474313#Comment_122474313

I don't think they take pride in it.