Upgrade to Pan European?

gerarda

Hi all, I've been learning how to ride since last October and am reasonably confident at this stage. I currently ride a XJ900 and was considering getting a Pan European 1100. I haven't done my test yet but was wondering is too early to get something bigger?

Thanks all

JP 1800

The question you really need to ask yourself are you able for the additional weight of a pan. They are 300 kg and this is a big increase over the xj900. I have a 300kg bike a k1200gt and the difference in the weight compared to my Deauville is very noticeable. When riding the weight difference is a bit more subtle but moving the k1200gt around the garage takes a lot more effort than the Deauville. If I drop a 300kg bike I will struggle to get it up, I did knock over the Deauville once and just managed to get it back up.

The Deuville and the xj900 are similar weight, the k1200 and the pan are similar weight so thats where my comparison comes from.

gerarda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457712#Comment_122457712

Thank you

blade1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457712#Comment_122457712

What will you be using the bike for and what's your budget?

Mad_Lad

The Pan European is a nice bike , a friend of mine has one but the seat is a little too tall for me, it's a monster, the weight will be really noticeable. He has the 1300.

I can barely get my leg over it especially because of the big top box he has on it, he has the side boxes too good storage.

What about the NC750x ? I know a lot of people consider them slow but they've got a decent 58 Hp all the same and 51 ft-lbs of torque at 4750 revs

The Pan European has 110 Hp and 82 ft-lbs torque at 6000 revs

Think of the NC750x like a diesel, do the job and still has plenty of power and it's economical too and the Pan European to go fast at well above legal speeds if that's your thing, fine for the Autobahn maybe.

The NC750x can have the top and side boxes too.

Hotblack Desiato

The Pan is a capable bike but also a bit of a bus.

Unless you're planning on doing 5000km+ two-up tours in the near future, it's much more bike than you need.

Have you passed your test OP? Taken any additional training?

gerarda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461167#Comment_122461167

Non additional training, I haven't done my test yet either.

Breezin

I agree that the real question is what will you be using it for.

I would think something like a Pan European would be great for just that — cruising effortlessly across a continent on motorways. Which would imho be intensely boring and better done on four wheels with a decent sound system and AC. (Actually, for the same reason, I don't get the GS fad… puts on riot helmet)

Generalising wildly, most motorcyclists avoid unnecessary journeys on motorways, and prefer twisties, both for riding pleasure and as a way of experiencing new places.

jeremyr62

The 1100 Pan is ancient now. Even the youngest 1300 is knocking on 10 years old.

If you do start looking at 1100s make sure you give the steel swingarm a good poke with a screwdriver. These rot away and decent replacements are very hard to find. Both the 1100 and the 1300 were good bikes back in the day.

Esel

1100 had a death wobble issue, I think?

blade1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495995#Comment_122495995

the 1300 had

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122496236#Comment_122496236

Only the police ones.

Esel

Heard about the weave issue in police bikes in NI.

Found this good thread on the subject:

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/honda-st1300-speed-wobbles-weaving.172218/

Fabio

Yamaha FJR does a similar job to the Pan 1300 but it's a good bit lighter (I think).

I'd hang on to the XJ for a while, do your test, build up the skills a bit more, see what sort of riding you do and then maybe look at changing the bike.

GBX

I threw my leg over an FJR the other day, some weight! I know with the right pilot, they can be a good bike but unless I was doing long distances 2 up, wouldn't be for me.

gerarda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501307#Comment_122501307

XJ is going great plus gets lots of compliment s when I'm out and about.

Hotblack Desiato

What's the attraction of a Pan, so?

Fabio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122517968#Comment_122517968

Variety is the spice of life I suppose. Some motorcyclists change bikes all of the time. Funnily enough, I'm the complete opposite, I hang on to my stuff for ages…I've only ever sold 2!

galwaytt

The original ST1100 Pan's are very old now, and so that will bring issues. They are prone to rotting (rust) on swingarm's in particular and that would be enought to write it off - imho.

ST1300 is far better, and more up to date in terms of ergonomics etc - the ST1100's are very tall, top-heavy and with old school narrow handlebars.

Banzai600

why not look at a lighter deauville NT700V ? Smaller version, more manageable etc.

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554284#Comment_122554284

One of them in City Spares at the moment, under 1K

gerarda

Is there a link to it? Thanks

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122568522#Comment_122568522

it was up on their socials last week.

Can’t find it now. Give them a shout on Tuesday

Mad_Lad

On the lookout for a 700 Deauville myself, lovely bikes, the NT1000 is **** looking by comparison and is chain drive not shaft and I hate that hideous tablet and no proper looking analogue dials.

I sat on my friends NT1300 Pan European a few weeks ago at minimum seat height and I liked it but the bike is a monster and I don't like the idea of belt cams but I could flat foot it not like my tmax 500 where I am on my toes at lights etc.

I think if I could sell the tmax 500 I'd buy a deauville 700. Only the Cub 125 from Honda these days looks good, in my opinion all their modern bikes look like **** especially with those ugly tablets.

knucklehead6

you mean nt1100?

JP 1800

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122590806#Comment_122590806

The Deauville are a good bike however are a bit heavy also. They have their problems so buy the best example you can. Be mindful of items such as rusty frames, pitted forks, rusty handlebars and broken pannier latches. Also check the final dive splines for wear as this is a common problem if the maintenance has not been done or the right spline lube used during tyre changes. They stopped making that bike about 10 or more years ago but parts are still available for now. A great midsize tourer or commuter bike, that's why the Gardaí and the Defence Forces used them.

knucklehead6

also the reg/rec

blade1

If you won't be doing the maintenance on it yourself, take into consideration the extra cost of ripping parts off to get at things that are more accessible on other bikes.

JP 1800

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122568732#Comment_122568732

I was out for a spin and I dropped by City Spares, that Deauville is a nice Burgundy red and a 10D reg. A few marks but not too bad. They are looking for 5K however the rear shock adjuster is seized and those shocks are big money and a pain in the ass to fit.

knucklehead6

5k for a 14 year old bike? Doesn’t sound right to me. And I’d be very surprised if they were doing it sold as seen as well. Any dealings I’ve had with them have been fair value for money.

JP 1800

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592163#Comment_122592163

Those Deauvilles hold their value apparently, There are a few around this money which seems a tad expensive.

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592177#Comment_122592177

Jaysus. I regret selling mine 2 years ago so!! 😂

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591605#Comment_122591605

Thanks for the info, how do I check the final drive splines ?

I've seen some rust buckets alright but one I saw on donedeal in what looks like mint condition is going for just under 5K, it's an 06/07 can't remember.

I don't know how many people know about XCP Clear coat ? it's supposed to be much better than ACF50, pity more people don't use it !

Good condition deauvilles are expensive, I mean they got what I want and need, good engine, storage, lovely analogue dials vs the **** screen on the NT1100, fine if you like that not knocking anyone's choice for screens but one reason I like bikes so much is their simplicity and lack of tech and screens, of course modern bikes have to get on the screen and high tech bandwagon in order to stay modern but I don't agree with tech for the sake of it.

I don't like modern Honda's at all, their designers have fallen asleep all they want to make is sports bike or so called touring bike that look mostly like sport bikes with panniers and tablets on the dash, the only Honda I like is the Cub 125 but prefer the Cub 110 not available in Europe.

I think Honda have really messed up with the NT1100 it just doesn't appeal to me at all, just a bit different to an African Twin…. lazy design, there's a real gap there in the Honda range since the Deauville, mid range engine and much less tech to go wrong or bug me, perhaps that's why there's such an interest in the Deauville today and why they go for good money , perhaps I'm not the only one thinking like this ?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122590944#Comment_122590944

No Deauville, don't like the NT1100 at all, don't need such a big engine, would rather the shaft drive, I hate the ugly screen and hate the fact Honda ditched analogue dials on all but the CUb and Shadow, the Shadow or course is no longer imported to Europe.

I think the Deauville looks better too, not a lot of people like the modern stick bug shape bikes they throw up these days and the useless mudguards.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592177#Comment_122592177

Yes but if like me and you see the NT1100 you think to yourself WTF Honda, expensive, engine too large in reality for my needs, absolutely detest the big TFT screen, makes the bike look like **** and will age poorly unlike analogue dials.

I don't want or need any of the tech because when out on the bike I want to be free from the shackles of tech which I deal with every day, I'm not in any way anti tech, but the bike is a way to escape reality, life and the effects of technology on my head, I just don't want it and I suppose a lot of people are the same and a proper Deauville replacement is absolutely crucial for Honda in my opinion of course but I expect the Deauville is still so sought after for all the reasons I mentioned because there really isn't anything like it and the NT1100 is just a lazy design and looks not much different from the African Twin which it's based on.

The Deauville 700 is a mid range engine a lot of people desire rather than the big heavy 1100, so Honda really deleted a very important bike from their range they haven't replaced and probably have no intention of either, in reality they have nothing to replace the Pan European either in my opinion.

extra-ordinary_

ah lads…you want the OP to get off an XJ900 and get onto a deauville??

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593555#Comment_122593555

nooo

A different poster wants a deauville.

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593630#Comment_122593630

Post 20-22?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595029#Comment_122595029

A deauville post 20-22 ? they stopped production in 2013 sadly.

extra-ordinary_

Dear oh dear…lol

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592145#Comment_122592145

5k is mad money.

I bought an SV1000S five years ago (13 years old at the time) from a dealer for 3k

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595958#Comment_122595958

The days of cheap 2nd hand dealer bikes are gone, the Deauville is a very sought after bike because I suppose there was a void there never filled after they stopped production, the NC750x is a strange bike and a lot of people like the older look of the Deauville, the classic dials etc, the Deauville is a proper touring bike with integrated panniers with a mid size engine and it was very popular, the NC750x is just another boring different version of a sport bike with stick bug like appearance, chain drive, no integrated panniers, no proper screen or fairing like the Deauville, the usual crap useless mud guards.

That pretty much sums up the ST1100 too.

No I've no doubt the modern Honda's are reliable but they are just so boring these days.

Private the Deauville 700 are going for 3-4 K in good condition, I see one which looks in mint condition, 2008 with 24,000 miles and these bikes are known to go for 200,000 miles. He did have it up for 6 K though which was a bit mad.

Lots of bikes never saw AC50 or the much better XCP Rust Blocker clear coat. But you can see the bikes that got some protection and a nice shed probably too.

If the bike is clean low mileage it will sell because for me there is no bike Honda make like the deauville or pretty much anyone else ether.

There's a dealer in Cork selling a 206 Deauville with 62,000 miles for 5K !

I'm reading that the NT1100 is actually the successor to the Deauville LMAO, a lame bike by comparison.

Hotblack Desiato

5k for a 14 year old Deauville with a known and not cheap to fix mechanical problem is still mad money

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604514#Comment_122604514

Are you talking about the drive shaft issue if someone hasn't taken care of it properly ?

5 K is mad money ?, feck, there's people looking for almost that for a 30 odd year old C90 in good condition and younger, the price of them has gone nuts and no matter how much I like them I wouldn't pay that for 1.

The C125 new costs 5,500 which is a bit mental in itself but maybe you could argue that the bike is the biggest selling production vehicle in history or the fact it does look cool and has character and is of course new, though there are some things not true to the original such as that ugly speedo and the keyless start which is bizzare on such a bike.

The problem is that there are not a lot of bikes that suit a lot of people like myself who would like a deauville 700, the style, luggage capacity and style of OEM panniers that were really neat looking on the Deauville and ST1300. The Honda panniers I've seen on the NT1100 just look like aftermarket ones not designed for the bike.

I also love the dash, the analogue dials, not that I'm anti tech, I've enough of that, one of the beauties of motor biking to me is escaping life, especially tech and screens and they look like sh*t on bikes, in my opinion of course but the dash on the so called Deauville successor, the NT1100 looks like dog vomit.

I do of course love modern retros and I'd probably be better off at the end of the day buying a new or almost new Royal Enfield Super Meteor 650 and putting a set of panniers on that.

The Kawasaki W800 and the Triumph T100 are a bit on the pricy size.

A 2022 NT1100 DCT costing 15,600 Euros with around 5,600 Kms. That's a long way off a Deauville in excellent condition, there are some out there being imported that were looked after. Even if the shaft failed and had to be repaired that's still a long way away from 15,500 Euros.

There's a manual NT1100 going for 16,700 on donedeal, 2023 0 kms , would hate to see the new price, that's bonkers in my opinion. I don't think the Deauville 700 would have been that expensive in equivalent money for the day.

Not everyone needs a 1100 either, and the NC750x is an oddball of a yoke.

I do like the CBF 600 with the Honda panniers too, they're not cheap either in excellent condition.

Many of those old bikes will go for 30 years and more if taken care of and XCP clear coat religiously used, what will happen many modern bikes, cars etc with all those TFT screens and other highly complex electronic bits ? throw-a-way vehicles.

Mad_Lad

I forgot to mention that I got another sit on my mates 1300 Pan and he let the seat down to minimum position, definitely better and I'd have no problem with it and I like the way you sit in it but we went off for a spin last week one of the warm days and he was complaining a lot about the heat coming from that big engine on his legs, might be nice in Winter at slow speeds though lol, perhaps all that fairing and big screen don't help with air flow, he definitely needs a better jacket like mine with proper big vents.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592145#Comment_122592145

^^ this was the post with the 5k Deauville with the mechanical problem

what will happen many modern bikes, cars etc with all those TFT screens and other highly complex electronic bits ? throw-a-way vehicles.

First heard that years ago in relation to CDI units. Then when fuel injection came along.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122612403#Comment_122612403

"First heard that years ago in relation to CDI units. Then when fuel injection came along"

Maybe but there's no denying that the amount of tech in bikes these days far exceeds just Fuel injection.

So what's the problem with the Deauville then ? the mechanical "problem you talk about" ?

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599217#Comment_122599217

the Deauville is a proper touring bike with integrated panniers with a mid size engine

I wouldn't rate a deauville for touring at all. It has shaft and good weather protection but is let down by vibrations and having to wring it's neck to get anything out of it - anything but relaxing. Pure commuter bike IMHO.

knucklehead6

they’re a good first bike though. My first was a deauy

knucklehead6

it’s literally (and I mean literally in the proper defined way) in hotblacks post you quoted

JP 1800

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122612403#Comment_122612403

Just to clarify, The issue I found with the 5K Deauville was that the rear shock absorber adjustment knob was stuck/seized, I did not ride the bike or inspect it further. Its a common issue on the NT700 for the adjuster to seize and it is integral to rear shock so a replacement would be needed. New shocks are not cheap from Honda and can be a bit of a pig to replace.