We have a tradition at lansdowne road....

Third_Echelon

Its one thing that really annoys me about going to lansdowne road, either for ireland games or leinster games (d'brook included), is the 'tradition' of not making noise when an opposition kicker is taking a penatly or coversion kick...

What the hell is up with that???

The fact that the announcer at lansdowne on saturday announced it over the tannoy at the game twice was really, really annoying...

Now i'm for fair play and all that, and the crowd should not be racist or abusive etc, but come on, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of making noise during a kick!!

Ok, I get that rugby was once a gentlemens game, played between the elite of high society and stuff like that, but in the modern professional game, rugby appeals to a wider audience including fans who are soccer and gaa fans etc. I know in soccer and gaa that the crowd really gets behind their team and act as a 12th/16th man in most cases. This involves giving the opposition a bit of stick, especially at times when putting off a player and breaking his concentration is advantage to your team....

Its normally the case that professional players in soccer for example, can handle this pressure, and rugby should be no different.

I know im probably going to get a lot of people saying, 'oh its just not right' etc, but im putting this up for debate here... Im also including a poll.

What exactly is wrong about making noise during a penatly or conversion kick?
Gentlemen i put it to the floor....

Nukem

Hate when people make noise while someone is kicking.Really pisses me off.We are about the only country that give people that bit of curtisey when the other team is kicking.

Been goin to games for years and its the same up and down the country in no matter what game-that weird silence.

Kinda part of the rugby history i guess.Please dont compare rugby to soccer its a poor comparision.Com'on like would you catch BOD telling the ref to "**** off" if he made a decision against him-I think not.

Third_Echelon

Nukem wrote:

We are about the only country that give people that bit of curtisey when the other team is kicking.

So perhaps we are wrong in doing this, or is it a reverse psychology thing we are going for?

Nukem wrote:

Kinda part of the rugby history i guess.Please dont compare rugby to soccer its a poor comparision.Com'on like would you catch BOD telling the ref to "**** off" if he made a decision against him-I think not.

I wasn't comparing the games. I was comparing the support and the manner of the supporters. If a soccer or gaa player told the ref to f off, they would be sent off. So that wont happen in a professional game of soccer.

Nukem

Com on.You know that eirie feeling when the whole place goes quite.
Thats ten times worse than shouting

As for the supporters,1st international was against England i was about 11 and was next to two english guys and they talked to me the whole way through telling me what was happening and who did what and why?

Now you tell me would you see and English Soccer fan do that :rolleyes:

CJhaughey

In this country it is a tradition to have absolute silence at matches at all grounds, recently I have noticed more and more people disrespecting this.
Yes in other countries the supporters make noise , however many visiting kickers have stated that the deathly silence actually puts them off, as they are used to the noise when they kick.

kenmc

Tony ward always used say on tv (when i listened to him rabbit on) that as a kicker the silence is worse than the noise, cos it reminds you that everyone is watching you - for most of the rest of the game it's a cauldren of noise, and then every so often you can hear a pin drop - means your heart thudding sounds like a pneumatic drill....
personally I hate when ppl make a noise until after the ball has been kicked.... there's always some knob-end though will shout some smart remark on the run up, even though there's silence.... the announcer was dead right. The OP should not go to rugby matches if he doesn;t like the "rules" of watching it. Same in DBrook and Thomond.... always silence.

Third_Echelon

Nukem wrote:

Com on.You know that eirie feeling when the whole place goes quite.
Thats ten times worse than shouting

I disagree. Thats giving the kicker a better chance of converting. Its like he's kicking balls at a training session!

Nukem wrote:

As for the supporters,1st international was against England i was about 11 and was next to two english guys and they talked to me the whole way through telling me what was happening and who did what and why?

Now you tell me would you see and English Soccer fan do that :rolleyes:

Agreed that rugby supporters are generally nicer people to get on with, and thats what i like about going to rugby matches. Its a nice atmosphere between fans of both sides etc.

I wasn't really pinpointing at the type of individual supporters as such, but more the kind of support, the way supporters support a team, e.g. if ruud van horsetelroy is taking a penalty at anfield, i think you wont find the liverpool fans staying silent. They will be doing their best by cheering and shouting to put him off and in the process, possibly help their team to stop the penalty being scored...

The last time i checked, the less points the opposition scores the better

Third_Echelon

kenmc wrote:

Tony ward always used say on tv (when i listened to him rabbit on) that as a kicker the silence is worse than the noise, cos it reminds you that everyone is watching you - for most of the rest of the game it's a cauldren of noise, and then every so often you can hear a pin drop - means your heart thudding sounds like a pneumatic drill....

Ok, i can understand that, thats were i was going with the reverse psychology idea... but surely a pro player can handle both types of pressure and has got past the 'thing' of everybody looking at him!!

kenmc wrote:

personally I hate when ppl make a noise until after the ball has been kicked....

are they trying to put the ball off?

kenmc wrote:

the announcer was dead right. The OP should not go to rugby matches if he doesn;t like the "rules" of watching it. Same in DBrook and Thomond.... always silence.

so should we make away fans abide by our rules on this? Its not their 'tradition'

I actually heard some guy beside me on the south terrace make comments about the argentinians making a bit of noise when o'gara was kicking. It was along the lines of 'oh those damn argies and their jeering, i wonder how they got the money to make it here...'
a tad elitist to say the least :rolleyes:

uberwolf

Third_Echelon wrote:

Ok, i can understand that, thats were i was going with the reverse psychology idea... but surely a pro player can handle both types of pressure and has got past the 'thing' of everybody looking at him!!

it's a more unusual situation for him though. Which makes it harder.

RuggieBear

franno had an interesting point in the Sunday Tribune yesterday.......it's hardly a tradition of keeping silent for kicks if the stadium announcer has to announce it at every game for the last few seasons....

Personally, i'm in two minds about it. I like the idea of keeping quiet for kicks as it's respectful but then i think **** that....i don't want the other team to win and being a supporter i should do whatever i can to make sure that doesn't happen.

Third_Echelon

RuggieBear wrote:

Personally, i'm in two minds about it. I like the idea of keeping quiet for kicks as it's respectful but then i think **** that....i don't want the other team to win and being a supporter i should do whatever i can to make sure that doesn't happen.

yes, my point exactly... I'm all for the respect and all that, but we're not going to get that same respect in Paris or London, are we?

RuggieBear

Third_Echelon wrote:

yes, my point exactly... I'm all for the respect and all that, but we're not going to get that same respect in Paris or London, are we?

Well actually, London is usually quiet'ish during kicks .....they just chat to each other as oppossed to trying to put the kicker off...

ARGINITE

(A) For the kicker the silence is worse than the noise, reverse psychology and all that I think it works better than the noise.

Thats giving the kicker a better chance of converting. Its like he's kicking balls at a training session!

how can it be like a training session as you have how many people watching you?

(B) Its part of the rugby history in this country and to hell with what ever the soccer or football fans do!

RuggieBear

ARGINITE wrote:

(B) Its part of the rugby history in this country and to hell with what ever the soccer or football fans do!

Personally, i think it's outdated my self.....but if we are going to keep this tradition up, i reckon we should keep the other ones up to like having no corporate whores at the match....or woman for that matter....

puntosporting

Im all for the silence i think its a unique rugby trait of ireland and should be encouraged ,every nation has its traditions it what makes rugby a special game.

kenmc

Third_Echelon wrote:

so should we make away fans abide by our rules on this?

Yes of course. And in general they do keep schtum, cos in rugby they're not segregated like the football hooligans are, and they are almost certainly outnumbered, and surrounded by "locals" going "shhhhh" when they make a noise.
the silence thing goes right down to junior cup level in donnybrook etc, and it's a GoodThing in my opinion

Third_Echelon wrote:

Its not their 'tradition'

Ever hear the expression "When in rome do as the romans"??

kenmc

Third_Echelon wrote:

are they trying to put the ball off?

Well there was a series of Guinness beermats for the 6 nations a few years back, one of which was something along the lines of "When England kick a penalty, everybody BLOW"
Class

Trojan

We have a tradition in Donnybrook of not making any noise during the opposition kicks.

And scrums, line-outs, rucks and mauls

Enough Donners-slagging... yes, I think we should remain silent. As a couple of people have mentioned above, it's eerie to have 40,000+ people go dead silent, and makes the noise all the better afterward. As for putting off the kicker, if we lose a game by 2 points, and could have put off the kicker and possibly won soley due to that noise, well I think that's pretty sad.

Third_Echelon

kenmc wrote:

Yes of course. And in general they do keep schtum, cos in rugby they're not segregated like the football hooligans are, and they are almost certainly outnumbered, and surrounded by "locals" going "shhhhh" when they make a noise.
the silence thing goes right down to junior cup level in donnybrook etc, and it's a GoodThing in my opinion

Thats a bit opressive in fairness, forcing your tradition on somebody else (away fans)

kenmc wrote:

Ever hear the expression "When in rome do as the romans"??

Yes, doesn't mean you 'have to' do what the romans do...

kenmc

Third_Echelon wrote:

Thats a bit opressive in fairness, forcing your tradition on somebody else (away fans)

No-one made them come... I suppose it's a bit oppressive making them go outside the pub to have a smoke then too is it???

Yes, doesn't mean you 'have to' do what the romans do...

True, but you'll often get into trouble if you don't do as the romans.... eg Jaywalking is cracked down on in some countries, and lots of europeans drive on the right hand side of the road. Ok I'm taking the piss a bit I know, but generally I have found that you will be better liked and looked after if you at least try to follow the lead of your hosts - respect their cultures and traditions and they will welcome you with open arms. go around flaunting them and they will look on you with disdain.

Trojan

Third_Echelon wrote:

Thats a bit opressive in fairness, forcing your tradition on somebody else (away fans)

Well jaysus don't go to the rugby if you don't want to be "oppressed" in the name of good manners.

I don't see the big deal - we the overwhelming majority stay silent out of respect for your kicker, you will do vice versa when we kick. Or we'll shush you.

Al (oppressive Irish fan).

Nukem

I really think you have struck a raw nerve here.

Its the way it was,the way it is and hopefully the way it will be for a long time.

Third_Echelon

kenmc wrote:

No-one made them come...

please... :rolleyes:

kenmc wrote:

I suppose it's a bit oppressive making them go outside the pub to have a smoke then too is it???

Its not affecting my health by away fans shouting...

kenmc wrote:

True, but you'll often get into trouble if you don't do as the romans.... eg Jaywalking is cracked down on in some countries, and lots of europeans drive on the right hand side of the road. Ok I'm taking the piss a bit I know, but generally I have found that you will be better liked and looked after if you at least try to follow the lead of your hosts - respect their cultures and traditions and they will welcome you with open arms. go around flaunting them and they will look on you with disdain.

Thats true, and thats what i do when im away from home. But if you're not comfortable with a tradition, you shouldn't feel the need to apply it. Random example. I was talking to a french person about the whole 'double kissing' thing that the french do and he couldn't understand why an irish person in france wouldn't do this and would only handshake. I made the point that perhaps they didnt feel comfortable doing it as it wasnt originally something that they practised in ireland. A bit off-topic for the example, i know, but we cant always do as the romans do...

Third_Echelon

Trojan wrote:

Well jaysus don't go to the rugby if you don't want to be "oppressed" in the name of good manners.

I don't see the big deal - we the overwhelming majority stay silent out of respect for your kicker, you will do vice versa when we kick. Or we'll shush you.

Al (oppressive Irish fan).

I dont fell oppressed at all... Oppression may have been a bit far-fetched, but you got the idea that i was stringing along anyway...

I'm just merely debating a point, that I felt needed to be debated for the search for knowledge in understanding the traditions behind the silence.

CJhaughey

I recall Christian Cullen saying that he had never experienced anything like the silence in Thomond, he said it raised the hairs on his neck! That is some statement from a guy of his calibre.
also I think it is different to have silence, and it is a mark of respect for the kicker and a nod to tradition.
This is the way we do it if you do not like the way we do it, find another sport where you will be happy.

kenmc

Third_Echelon wrote:

Thats true, and thats what i do when im away from home. But if you're not comfortable with a tradition, you shouldn't feel the need to apply it. Random example. I was talking to a french person about the whole 'double kissing' thing that the french do and he couldn't understand why an irish person in france wouldn't do this and would only handshake. I made the point that perhaps they didnt feel comfortable doing it as it wasnt originally something that they practised in ireland. A bit off-topic for the example, i know, but we cant always do as the romans do...

I dunno - I think the example you've given is a bit backwards, in that the french often shake AND kiss, whereas you're not comfortable with the kiss and will just go with the shake. so you're (not you personally, "one") not so much trampling on their tradition as holding short of it. Now in Japan for example it'd be different - they don't do the whole body contact at all, so if you were to forcefully shake their hand they'd be quite offended. In the french instance you're not stepping up to the line really, and in the Japenese you're stepping over the line. Sorta like less is more.
Anyway, we're a bit off topic, it's lunchtime and I'm hungry!

GreenHell

Shouldn't this thread be title "we have a tradition at thomond park"....

Third_Echelon

CJhaughey wrote:

I recall Christian Cullen saying that he had never experienced anything like the silence in Thomond, he said it raised the hairs on his neck! That is some statement from a guy of his calibre.
also I think it is different to have silence, and it is a mark of respect for the kicker and a nod to tradition.

duely noted, which i understand.

CJhaughey wrote:

This is the way we do it if you do not like the way we do it, find another sport where you will be happy.

steady on there. Less of the 'attacks' please.

I said that I like rugby and I've watched and supported it since I was a kid. My uncle played for Malone for years and i always went to his games...

I'm merely playing devils adcovate in a situation here. Seems to me that you are not very open to change or the ideas of others.

May I point out, that I have indeed heard other people mentioning about the silence matter. It should be debated.

Trojan

Third: it seems to me that you're the one who started 'attacks' on this thread by virtue of playing devils advocate in a fairly aggressive way. "Live by the sword, die by the sword", no? You don't seem to be very tolerant of our "'tradition'" - do the quotes make it less valid as a tradition by the way? Or is it because you want to put down what some people view as good manners?

If you want a debate, do not start by belittling what you do not agree with, it's not going to magically transform into a logical discussion.

por

I'll preface this by stating that I do not follow rugby and may be way off the mark here so apologies in advance if I am incorrect with the following.
Back in the early 90s was there not a guy playing for Ireland and taking all the penalty kicks called Brian Smith (Australian I think) who was absolutely useless. Was he not booed by his own fans time and time again at Lansdowne?.
Then when Ralph Keys came along to in the 1991 WC and played against Zimbabwe the place went quiet again, it was eerie.

So much for tradition and respect if you are booing your own player, then again as I said I may be wrong.

Third_Echelon

Trojan wrote:

Third: it seems to me that you're the one who started 'attacks' on this thread by virtue of playing devils advocate in a fairly aggressive way. "Live by the sword, die by the sword", no?

Not at all. I wasn't 'attacking' anyone at all.

Trojan wrote:

You don't seem to be very tolerant of our "'tradition'" - do the quotes make it less valid as a tradition by the way? Or is it because you want to put down what some people view as good manners?

What the idea of the "our tradition"... would that not be better phrased as "the tradition"... seems as though you think that people who haven't played the game don't have a right to watch and comment on the sport. Is this the case?

I'm not putting down good manners. If it was more apparent in other sports it would be a good thing, but sometimes there is good manners and there is going too far with good manners. It is a competitive sport. You Vs Them.

Trojan wrote:

If you want a debate, do not start by belittling what you do not agree with, it's not going to magically transform into a logical discussion.

I'm not belittling it at all. I just think its a bit odd.

Trojan

Yes, you were attacking someone: everyone who follows this tradition. Ok, moving on from that dead-end of a topic...

You think it's odd - that's fair enough, but I don't think even 10,000 people thinking it's odd would make any difference.

I play for Clontarf 3rd Bs - that's our 5th team overall - way down the bottom of the pile. Last year, an Aussie friend of mine came along to a match I was playing in at home. We had about 5 people watching on the sidelines. The Aussie started jeering as their kicker took a kick, and one of my props immediately told him to stop. This isn't just about Lansdowne, Thomand and representative sides - it's something that we do. So if we react when you belittle our traditions, take the heat - you called it on yourself.

I see your point about the competitiveness, but I can't agree. I think it's more important to stick to our morals than throw them away for that reason.

eirebhoy

The quieter a stadium is when going up for a kick, the more it would put me off TBH.

Third_Echelon

Trojan wrote:

Yes, you were attacking someone: everyone who follows this tradition. Ok, moving on from that dead-end of a topic...

It was merely questioning, not attacking.

Trojan wrote:

You think it's odd - that's fair enough, but I don't think even 10,000 people thinking it's odd would make any difference.

Your opinion, fair enough.

Trojan wrote:

I play for Clontarf 3rd Bs - that's our 5th team overall - way down the bottom of the pile. Last year, an Aussie friend of mine came along to a match I was playing in at home. We had about 5 people watching on the sidelines. The Aussie started jeering as their kicker took a kick, and one of my props immediately told him to stop. This isn't just about Lansdowne, Thomand and representative sides - it's something that we do. So if we react when you belittle our traditions, take the heat - you called it on yourself.

I'm aware of the tradition down to the grass routes alright. I go to watch old belvedere some weekends as my mate plays for them and its the same there, but a few people on the sidelines aren't going to make too much of a difference...

Again I wasn't belittling. I asked the question.

Trojan wrote:

I see your point about the competitiveness, but I can't agree. I think it's more important to stick to our morals than throw them away for that reason.

Fair enough. Maybe im just over competitive

rugbyfairy

Whats your tradition?
to get refs that cheat?

Trojan

Ah, an Englishman chimes in?

Our refs don't cheat, they just follow the windy roads of justice

But seriously, I wasn't happy with Spreadbury (where's he from then?), but I need to see the game again to comment without the east terrace bias.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RuggieBear

Trojan wrote:

Ah, an Englishman chimes in?

Our refs don't cheat, they just follow the windy roads of justice

But seriously, I wasn't happy with Spreadbury (where's he from then?), but I need to see the game again to comment without the east terrace bias.

I can add my South Terrace bias if you like....i thought he was poor.....very poor!

rugbyfairy

well i think Honnis was s**t when SA played ireland.

i think o'gara was very clever for taking the kick but honnis should have called him back

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

CJhaughey

Third_Echelon wrote:

steady on there. Less of the 'attacks' please.

I didn't attack you I merely suggested that if you were not happy with the way the ritual of placekicking is conducted in this country find one that please you and allows you to express yourself in the manner in which you so clearly desire to, France perhaps?

Third_Echelon wrote:

.But if you're not comfortable with a tradition, you shouldn't feel the need to apply it.

So you are saying, because you don't feel like giving respect to an opposing teams placekicker that you should ride roughshod over the feelings of thousands of other fans who obviously do not think on the same wavelength as your good self.

Third_Echelon wrote:

.I'm merely playing devils adcovate in a situation here. Seems to me that you are not very open to change or the ideas of others.

This is what a Tradition is no? I mean if I thought that the theme from Rocky was a better tradition to play instead of Irelands call would that give me the right to say that the tradition of playing IC should be changed?

Third_Echelon wrote:

.May I point out, that I have indeed heard other people mentioning about the silence matter. It should be debated.

This is a debate.

Nukem

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

That was a tough call the mark one.He called it well though.The tackler had hands on hime before he could do anything about it and thats leagal, just

Hairy Homer

This is a bit of deja vu for me.

Last year I brought my son and his friend to the Leinster Biarritz HC game at Lansdowne. The first qualifying pool game, that is.

The lads had brought along a party horn which was pretty loud to add to the general atmosphere.

In the fullness of time, Biarritz had occasion to kick at goal. Junior turns to me, eyes wild with the realisation of a Great Idea that had just formed.

'Dad. I'm going to blow the horn just before he kicks.'

Cough! Splutter! Apoplexy!! 'You will not.'

'But Dad. It'll put him off.''

'I know. That's why you're not doing it.'

Junior assumes bewildered look. 'But why not?'

'Ask your Uncle John.'

'Why Uncle John?
'
'Because he's from Limerick. He's a mad Shannon supporter and if you did that in Thomond Park, they'd kill you.'

He still doesn't understand why but he knows not to even think of doing it now. Until after the guy has missed the kick, of course.

BTW. Junior was eight years old at the time. I would hope that when he grows up a bit, he will understand why.

It's a great tradition. One that lends itself to fierce support while on the terraces between rival fans and lots of convivial drinking in the bars afterwards whatever the result. None of your 'You're crap and you know you are.' or 'You're going home in a big white ambulance'

No hard feelings.

Trojan

Forgot about the mark - wow that one got us turned on in the crowd anyway - livid!

RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

....What about the constant spoiling....illegal ruck protection and offsides at rucks... :eek:

Mungaman

If I can add my two cents in here,

I was at a rugby function in NZ where Grant Fox was speaking ( Grant Fox being one of the highest point scorers in world rugby and a clinical fanatic).
He was asked where is the hardest place to kick a ball from.....

" Right in front of the posts at Landsdowne road, there is no where in the world that is that silent I considered getting my own forward pack to yell at me just so I could get in the zone"

If the silence at the game is a sportsmans tradition and everything that goes with it, then why is it that every game at Landsdowne the crowd are booing players who take ten in the bin and everytime they touch the ball when they return the universal boo goes up? Mistakes are now cheered and the ref's are taking more stick as each match passes. I'm in favour for tradition but no one ever sings "Cockles and Mussels alive alive o" anymore.
A bag of hot chips has the same inflation as the property that surrounds the ground. A programme is smaller and full of ads and the pints round the ground go up each time we get there. Maybe its just that both the fans and the game has changed and adapting to change is what the world is about apparantly.

Well done on the win on Saturday I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Ronan O'Gara show again. I have to say though that I think that may have been the best defensive display by an international side this season. They were very very well organised and tackled like demons. I question again the back line at a 3/4 depth, either run them flat or really deep. I don't know if the ball actually went right across the backs and touched each set of hands on the way. IRL could do with simplifying it a bit and let the wings score tries.

Third_Echelon

CJhaughey wrote:

I didn't attack you I merely suggested that if you were not happy with the way the ritual of placekicking is conducted in this country find one that please you and allows you to express yourself in the manner in which you so clearly desire to, France perhaps?

I here its nice this time of year...

CJhaughey wrote:

So you are saying, because you don't feel like giving respect to an opposing teams placekicker that you should ride roughshod over the feelings of thousands of other fans who obviously do not think on the same wavelength as your good self.

As I said, i'm all for the respect aspect of the game, but I also support my team and want them to do well.

CJhaughey wrote:

This is what a Tradition is no? I mean if I thought that the theme from Rocky was a better tradition to play instead of Irelands call would that give me the right to say that the tradition of playing IC should be changed?

Tradition doesn't mean that it has to go on forever. Traditions die out. Look at the garvaghy road for example. That was a tradition to march down it. A compromise was reached... not the same situation, but you get my point about tradition.

Rocky isn't a traditional irish rugby song, so your point is negated here.

CJhaughey wrote:

This is a debate.

Nice one...

uberwolf

Mungaman wrote:

" Right in front of the posts at Landsdowne road, there is no where in the world that is that silent I considered getting my own forward pack to yell at me just so I could get in the zone"

thats good enough for me sol we've settled it

CJhaughey

Quote Third Echelon
Look at the garvaghy road for example. That was a tradition to march down it.end quote

Bad example, keep politics out of sport.

Third_Echelon

CJhaughey wrote:

Bad example, keep politics out of sport.

Im not saying thats what its like. If I came up with an example about the tradition of pickeling eggs dying out... (even though it hasn't and is a totally made up example)

should cookery also be kept out of sports???

Its the only tradition i could think of at the time that a compromise was reached and the tradition 'ammended'.

uberwolf

Third_Echelon wrote:

Its the only tradition i could think of at the time that a compromise was reached and the tradition 'ammended'.

I'd a thought this was an all or nothing kinda thing though. And unfortuantely as with any things teh will of the minority can rule. The PAs request met with applause on every instance. The schoolboys terrace is the one who makes the most noise, which reflects the mentality.