Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226445#Comment_123226445

Post 18635 – Time has run out for Amorim.

Post 18642 – We’ll finish 17th (which raised the discussion on points needed for safety)

Post 18662 – Bring in Bielsa?

That's just from a quick glance through the last page.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226878#Comment_123226878

The problem is though we are not going to be attractive to top players so how can we build up a strong starting 11 when we need a top striker for instance to come in and hit the ground running.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227097#Comment_123227097

Well I've said before that we (as fans) need to reset our expectations a bit.

You're right, we can't attract top players.

2 things will do that, being a top team (we currently are not) or paying as if we are (currently we can't even if we wanted to, but even then we shouldn't (Cas)).

So what we need to do is attract good, solid players, establish ourselves as a top 10 team, then the year after, a top 6 team chasing top 4, and a few years after that a top 4 team chasing the title.

The reality is that we have fallen that far and we don't have the money for a quick fix.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227097#Comment_123227097

We will still attract plenty of players. We need to raise the floor of the squad so worrying about signing the world class players to win a league isn't really where we are right now.

ericzeking

It might be no harm in us not attracting 'top players', coming for the payday. Alot of that has us in the sh!t.

Focus on young hungry lads on the upgrade plucked from the nether reaches of smaller leagues. Build a team then, not a collection of individuals.

We have all the hipster appointees in the top brass now…they are surely well up on the next big thing in the Austrian second tier….

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227097#Comment_123227097

two fold answer for me.

1. I think there are actually very few top players to target in the first place.
2. I think UNited as a club will still ahve a large degree of appeal - inclusive of still good money.

Even if we lower our wage offerings, the wages on offer at United will still be better than all but the elite clubs for the most part. If we cant get Osimhen I don't know what other striker we could target that wouldn't have any interest in signing for us.

And then look at the teams ahead of us that are our immediate targets (and I mean if we are actually targetting top 5 and not top 10). Who are the elite players at Spurs and Villa and Newcastle that we couldn't hope to have attracted? Would Isak at La Real have rejected us?

NITRO95

It's funny for years we've heard that the scouts have identified every top player in Europe currently when we could have gotten them for less than €5m. Now is the time that we need to make those signings. Yes not everyone will be Sesko or Bissouma but if can get a Heaven or a Chido and they become solid squad members for 5 years that's much preferable to signing Di Maria, Pogba, Donny (poor Donny).

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227097#Comment_123227097

The gap from where we are to where we need to be is so big that I don't fear that we won't be able to attract players to help bridge it. They may (almost certainly will) not be players who will help challenge for a league but we're so far off that it's a few transfer windows away.

United is still a big enough of a draw to get better players than we have in.

I'm not sure what budget we will have this summer but if we can manage to sell Sancho, Rashford, Antony (and maybe get a sell on fee for Greenwood) then there should be 100-150m to play with.

An experienced striker, an AM and a RWB that all fit the system would be a good first step at improving the starting 11 but that would be the budget more or less gone. I would be expect a few free / very low cost transfers to bolster the squad then. The likes of Angel Gomes wouldn't be high up on my wishlist typically but that's the type of transfer I see happening just to add to the squad outside of the 3 main targets.

Seattle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226878#Comment_123226878

I think if you have European football, you need a minimum 30m extra worth of players in the squad if you don't want your league form to be negatively impacted by the extra games (probably a lot more).

My point is, a season without European football (unless it's the Champions League) will have it's positives and will make squad planning easier.

y0ssar1an22

i still cant understand why we didnt get kolo muani on loan. if he chose juve over us, then fine.

he has 5 goals in 5 league games for juve.

The club announced it had signed him for a €1 million fee with €2.6 million in additional costs, plus potential bonuses adding up to €2 million.

so max outlay for juve is €5.6m or ~£4.5m. if we couldnt afford that we are truly fucked.

ericzeking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227207#Comment_123227207

Remember Sancho was the final piece of the front 3 jigsaw for Ole….Rashford Greenwood Sancho (plus Martial), that was going to be it for a decade.

Now we are liquidising them via a firesale to gather a few pound to pay the electricity bill….gas innit.

Speaking of Ole, he has had some start in Turkey….what a guy….. OleIN 4Life.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227332#Comment_123227332

apparently PSG wouldn;t give an Option in the deal on those terms, and United were not interested in doing a deal without an option - with the option being at a price they valued the played at.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227207#Comment_123227207

In 2023 Chelsea finished 12th. They won 11 games all season.

They had/have a basket case at the top leading them, making calls.

They threw the baby out with the bathwater in Poch after going from 12th to 6th and hired a championship manager.

After all that, they look like they will be back in the CL this season.

The league isn't as strong as we like to make out.

A season out of Europe doesn't mean Utd can't set themselves on the correct course in the summer.

There's work to do to correct this. We can't keep trying the short term quick fixes.

But a good summer and we can push back for Europe next season. Stay in the fight and 5th might even get CL.

A lot can change in football in 6 months

Iseedeadpixels

I've never wished a season to be over as much as I do now, coming in from a FA Cup win, some decent signings (though missing an experienced striker) only for us to be awful....beyond awful, exciting manager comes in only for our highly paid players to struggle to adapt, injuries after injuries, silly mistakes etc, all the cuts at club level, Liverpool going to win 20, probably the league cup and a good shot at the Champions League.

It's a hell of a lot to take in and I wouldn't blame anyone for giving up now and stop watching.

Mitch Connor

I fi thought we would see more (or anything) of Fletcher, Kone, Amass - as well as Chido or Heaven over the next months of league games I'd have more interest in them. And maybe they just aren't physicallyr eady, or just not good enough and that is why we don't see them, but seeing Dalot and Mazraoui at WB and Eriksen or Lindelof come into the side holds no interest for me.

Whatsisname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227426#Comment_123227426

Forest a good example too. Stayed up by 6 points last season, currently 3rd. Could very well get CL, but if not, they'll surely get some form of european football.

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227426#Comment_123227426

I can see the appeal of the Chelsea comparison but they've spent vast sums of money on young players with potential. Even when finishing 12th, their squad was in better shape for the long term than United's is now.

Serious business needs to be done in the summer to get back on the right track. What money will be there to do it is the big question… A lot can change in 6 months but that assumes that the right calls get made in the meantime.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227422#Comment_123227422

i can sort of get that, having the option to buy at X price is nice.

however, for a team who cannot score goals and were looking to offload 2 attackers (antony and rashford), they needed to take a more short term view and do a deal.

water under the bridge now.

if we end up with no european football next season, revenue will drop by (guessing here) £30-£80m. i think (and thought at the time) it was a gamble we needed to take.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227426#Comment_123227426

When I was talking about the huge gap, that was in relation to challenging for the league. That's not around the corner imo. But I would absolutely agree that a really good summer could have us back in the say for a CL place. It would have to be a very good summer though. Didn't mean my post to imply that we will be in limbo for a few years.

The Dorgu signing gives hope for the summer and next season. And that's not to say he has been amazing himself, but it was a sensible signing of a player with the right attributes and even just having a player who can play LWB has seen a decent impact to the way we play.

Even the signing of a proper goalscorer this summer would have us shoot up the table imo.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227482#Comment_123227482

I agree - I think we needed to do SOMETHING in january and while a LWB was needed it wasn't nearly enough. Whatever about the league, we gave up on the FA Cup and EL in january too. Very frustrating.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227482#Comment_123227482

The "gamble" element has come up for interesting discussion on a lot of different podcasts lately, mainly surrounding Arsenal, Villa etc. It seems that the new era we're in of PSR (I don't fully understand it) has clubs not taking those gambles.

Like, to see Arsenal not "gamble" on getting a goalscorer in in January was crazy given their fairly secure standing in CL spots and (at the time) challenging for the PL.

I don't think we were anywhere near the position of even thinking about taking a gamble in January.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227568#Comment_123227568

its about 5m, we aint talking about anything substantial so maybe gamble was the incorrect term used.

arsenal fans should be going mad about not being in for him - think it was just us, spurs and juve.

there is certainly an element of arrogance to it. and unwillingness to say you fucked up the previous transfer window, all these managers (and maybe executives, i dunno) have massive ego's. i dont need anyone on loan, i'm the man and am good enough to utilise the existing squad.

Iseedeadpixels

Chido Obi is ineligible for the Europa League 🙃

Mitch Connor

I find it odd, and interesting, that we have seemingly selected Jack Fletcher over him.

fatherted1969

This year we've accumulated enough points to be clear of any relegation thoughts. We're far enough ahead that we shouldnt be talking about going down, form has to be vastly improved by next year though or it becomes a real possibility. Our form since RA came in is relegation form and he needs to get the message across fairly quickly

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123228150#Comment_123228150

we're not quite there yet. if you extrapolate his 24 games in all comps, thats comes out at 1.46 PPG or 55 over a PL season.

if just looking at his 16 PL games, that is at 1.13 PPG or 43 points over a season.

if things dont improve, i can see ineos showing him the door oct/nov next season, funds dependent of course.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123227961#Comment_123227961

they also have 4 keepers named (onana, bayindir, heaton, mee), none of which qualify for the b list.

mee seems like a giant waste of a spot - he wasnt named on the bench yesterday while 2 other keepers were. in fact mee has not been named on the bench the last few games.

GK's named on utd's bench recently that would qualify for the b list, thereby freeing up a slot of obi:

elhy harrison and william murdock.

seems like shocking bad management whoever was responsible for that.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123228330#Comment_123228330

Some big decisions to be made in the summer - obviously he needs a few buys to make his system work, but if they're having doubts about him and his system, will they back it? Big risk of making the squad even more dysfunctional if they spend in the summer only to get cold feet with him early next season. Really, I think they need to either give up in the summer, or get behind him for at least another full year.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123228383#Comment_123228383

"If they're having doubts over him and his system"...

There have been zero indications or even rumours that I'm aware of that INEOS are having doubts over him or his system. The system that they specifically hired him to implement.

Whats the point of making up rumours in order to speculate on them?

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123228502#Comment_123228502

i'm confused cos you clearly didnt miss the 'if' at the start there.