Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784519#Comment_123784519

Ferguson would win the title with those midfielders.

He won the league with worse.

cosatron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785102#Comment_123785102

we went into the bernabeu with feckin phil jones midfield and we snatched a 1-1 draw.

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784608#Comment_123784608

I think 4th to 7th is the expectation range for this season. With 4th and CL football being a very good season and 7th with likely European football acceptable.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785102#Comment_123785102

Ferguson would play a system to get the best out of those midfielders. Something Amorim is refusing to do

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784707#Comment_123784707

At least wait until an actual full season has taken place to say what is and isn't out of reach, ETH had two full seasons, Amorim, as of yet - zero

ericzeking

Ferguson used to play lads like Phil Neville and John O Shea in midfield on the regular. He beat Arsenal in the cup one day with 7 or 8 defenders on the pitch and one of the Da Silva twins in centre midfield.

The idea we have to buy 22 brand spanking new world class players to compete is rubbish. At this level, every single one of th e players playing in the premier league is top, top level, technically, the main differences between the vast majority of the players are in mentality and attitude. Seemingly we have done a big purge of some of the bad attitudes, we should be expecting to be up there around the top 4 or 5 in my opinion.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785281#Comment_123785281

Because Amorim was chosen because of his faith in his system, and the club are trying to back him to play it. It's not just Amorim in this either.

It's pointless for him to chop and change, he needs to play the system to show where the next signings need to be.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785389#Comment_123785389

I've heard so much about "his system". Has there ever been so much made of a manager's "system"?

Mourinho, Guardiola, Wenger all had styles of play but from one game to the next you never knew what tactics they would use against you. Fulham showed that when you only have 1 trick, it's easy to counter.

So when other teams come up with various ways to counter "the system", what then? A new "system" ?

But won't that need an entirely new crop of players suited to that "system".

One dimensional, one-trick pony is still my opinion. A proper coach gets the best out of whatever players he has.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784948#Comment_123784948

It's the Kagawa affect - the less we see of a player, the better they must be. We've seen basically nothing of Heaton, he must be amazing!

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785389#Comment_123785389

He won't be around for the next transfer window if he doesn't show some flexibility when the system isn't working.

MisterAnarchy

https://twitter.com/TouchlineX/status/1963520410013626720

He interfered with the planning and only proposed players from his own agency.

Sounds familiar.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785389#Comment_123785389

Chosen because of his faith in a system OMG. Every coach should be able to change / adapt his system to suit his squad. Its called being a good coach.

loyatemu

it's interesting that players escape from United and mostly seem to recover and get better, but managers… we break them permanently (except maybe Moyesy but it took him a while).

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785480#Comment_123785480

I'd still be sacking him during this international break. Hasn't shown anything at all that suggests he can handle top level management

Iseedeadpixels

Only on an International break would this thread have arguements 😂

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785480#Comment_123785480

Most managers these days have their own preferred formation / system. The really good managers evolve and make tweaks to that over time.

The days of a manager going in and figuring out the best formation to play with the squad he has are pretty much gone. That's not a good thing imo but it's just a sign of the way things have gone. You're not a good up and coming manager without your own system/philosophy (which is never truly their own anyway).

If you were being generous to Amorim, you could say he's taking the Klopp approach of just sticking with his system until it's fully engrained in every player, and more importantly, until he gets the players he needs to play that system.

You could also call him a one-trick pony!

Both could be correct at this moment in time imo. The likes of Klopp did very well with the one-trick and only really made minor enough adjustments to that one-trick over time.

I like talk about formations etc but they are completely overblown these days imo. If you have good quality, hard working players, with a bit of character… you'll be a good manager whatever system you play.

ericzeking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785537#Comment_123785537

Did they not just sell all their good players out from under him? There was bound to be tension, and we are getting just one side of the story here.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785480#Comment_123785480

I think it is the opposite tbh.

Fulham created nothing in the first half at all that could be called as tactically exploiting us. they had some joy in the second half. but they are a prem side. We should have beaten them.

If he played 433 and not 343 people wouldn't be banging on about his system, but because the base formation is different then of course everythign is the formation and the system.

People should be focusing on our build up, execution and set pieces, imo. Set Pieces are a disgrace and far more an issue that any 'system' issue.

You argument seems based on their being only 1 way to play or execute within the system. its just not true.

Even look at Sporting - the 343 played in their first winning campaign differs from that played in the second. Was a false 9 with wider wingers year one, a striker with closed in 10s in year 2 with greater emphasis on the WBs for width.

At United we might play with Dalot RWB, or Amad RWB - and the team will function and play different as a result. If/When we get Cunha and Mbeumo in the 10s together the team will be different to Mbeumo and Mount off Cunha.

The profiles of the players will play a large part in dictating the function of the side. The team may 'stay' in a 343, but what the players in each position are asked to do can differ based on who they are - that is how the 'system' gets tweaked, rather than abononed altogether as people seem to want.

Zeek12

I think the biggest criticism of "the system" is that in order to function properly, and bring results, it requires attacking wing-backs who are brave enough to play high up the pitch, provide good attacking options and create opportunities. Which we seem to lack in many games.

And when that doesn't happen, we end up with a flat back 5 and a very thin looking midfield.

You can call it criticism of the coaching, and/or of the players themselves to absorb this method, if you prefer.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785677#Comment_123785677

this is fair, imo.

Amad is the only player that we play on either side that we can really trust from an offensive point of view.

Dorgu bought to do it on the left, isn't doing it. a very willing runner, goes to the right places - poor on the ball.

After those two you are into standard fullbacks; Dalot, Mazraoui, Shaw? None can do that role. Dalot to be fair I think is showing the intent to be more offensive in his positioning so as a backup I am ok with him.

IncognitoMan

Last year 5th and 6th place teams records

5th - Newcastle - 20 Wins, 6 Draws, 12 Losses.
6th - Aston Villa - 19 Wins, 9 Draws, 10 Losses.

Utd had their worst-ever PL season and ended up

11 Wins, 9 Draws, 18 Losses.

The difference between "great season Newcastle" and "worst ever season Man Utd" is 6 losses less and 3 draws less.

If Utd turn 7/8 of last season's losses (and there were plenty that should not have been lost) into wins in a season where Newcastle will have to play CL football and Villa will play EL with squads that aren't exactly the most in-depth, then they will be there or thereabouts

Newcastle and Villa are arguably worse off squad-wise, and United should be better off.

18-20 wins seems to get you into that 5

If Utd don't get into the race for 6th/5th etc.. then it has been another disaster season.

Yes, there are issues in the squad, but every team from 3rd down has glaring issues or weaker areas they have to overcome.

It's very rare a club has a perfect team.

My biggest fear is the keeper. You can almost "get away" in most other areas. You can compensate.
Weak midfield? Pull an attacker back to help out.
Weak defense? Pack the midfield and protect it better.
Weak strikers? Push midfielders puther forward to help with goal-scoring or push wingers inside to get them closer to goal.

Weak keeper though? What do you do? If the keepers are poor it feeds through the team and everyone becomes nervous every time the opponent attacks

All_in_Flynn

It's still early days in the league and only now with the window closed will we really see where teams are at. But from what I've seen so far, there is no clear outstanding team. Arsenal are probably the most balanced team in the league but they play too conservatively for me which may be their achillies heal.

I'd argue that our performance against Burnley was the best performance of any team so far. Particularly the first half but even with that we barely won the game and therein lies the issue I see with us. There is a fragility in the team still and will be there until such a time that the players build up their confidence.

Liverpool for example have won all 3 games and in my opinion they have looked bang average but they have that resilance built up through winning and have ground out results.

Top 6 is definietley achievable and I have a small belief that we can do better than that but we will need certain things to go are way. We also need to be able to press well without Mount in the team but at the moment he is very important.

nachouser

A mate send me a link about Lammens and goals conceded. It's not great viewing. He's rooted to the spot for several.

The sound is very annoying, best to mute it.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/i779WpbQx7w

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785957#Comment_123785957

just like that uptv vid a few days ago, he got caught a lot by balls going across him. its like he has forgotten where he is in relation to the far post, so just lets these shots go thinking they are going wide.

hopefully this is something he has already been working on.

Cotts72

You could find youtubes on every keeper regarding mistakes made. People need to be cognisant of the fact we have bought a young keeper with huge potential. Can't expect him to be Schmeichel immediately

Caustic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785957#Comment_123785957

A lot of bullets or well places shots, maybe two where he didn't look to move quick enough but the two crosses ones looked bad. Hard to know from one watch I wouldn't be panicking just yet anywya

nachouser

Ah yeah, it's more about how soon do you start playing him. I'm firmly in the camp that GK isn't the worst problem this Utd team has. It's not enough goals and a midfield that you could drive a bus through. It'll be interesting to see how RA handles it against City and Chelsea.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785480#Comment_123785480

When you hear system just interpret that as style of play since it's a more palatable phrase. Be better for your blood pressure that way 👍🏻

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785957#Comment_123785957

To be fair I watched a YouTube video of him a week ago that made him look like the lovechild of Allison and Courtois so 🤷‍♂️

fatherted1969

Wonder if Kone can make the step up this season when hes over his injury, apparently hes highly thought of in the club.