Question re ATC strikes in France and flight routes

knucklehead6

we all know that the French ATC routinely declare strikes over the summer months. My question is regarding flights to Mallorca. Would they reroute down the bay of Biscay then fly along the north of Spain? Or would airlines just cancel the flights and not take the extra fuel burn? Or would I be right in assuming that biscay airspace is controlled through France and the flights would be cancelled?

Just wondering.

AnRothar

The actual number of French strikes is overblown.

However, when they do happen the affected passengers make great human interest stories.Hence the journalistic interest.

The airspace over the bay of Biscay is Oceanic airspace and not French Controlled.

Only suitability equipped aircraft are permitted to use it. Most holiday flights are but Ryanair have some aircraft who regularly avoid it and route via French airspace.

Each airline would do it's own analysis of wheither to cancel or not.

moonshy2022

”the airspace over the bay of Biscay is oceanic airspace and not French Controlled.”

It 100% is French airspace and it’s entirely covered by radar at that service is provided by Brest Control.

The extent of it is as far west as a line from La Coruna north towards Youghal, obviously excluding London, Shannon and Madrids bits.

French ATC strikes are dependent on which ACC and which section is striking and what impact they have.

AnRothar

French domestic airspace extends to 8W.

The holiday routes along the TANGO's are in Shanwick airspace, so not affected by French strikes.

goingnowhere

Head west to the Tango routes 9W and beyond avoids the French ATC entirely in favour of procedural oceanic. Then its Shanwick or Santa Anna. Capacity is limited as its procedural so its separation is greater than a radar environment.

Not all aircraft and crews are trained/equipped for these routes, you need HF radio fitted. Aer Lingus seem to be fully fitted but Ryanair seems to remove the HF radios after the delivery flights from Boeing and only subset of the fleet retain the HF gear.

AnRothar

Ryanair seems to remove the HF radios after the delivery flights from Boeing

HF radio = weight.

Less weight = less user charges.😁

So they store them in a warehouse in Mullingar.

4 Ryanair's this morning went via French airspace.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324806#Comment_122324806

Santa Maria, I'm sure you meant.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323516#Comment_122323516

Shanwick controlled.

Tango 9 skirts the Brest OTA, the others are well within Shanwick OCA to either Santa Maria OCA or Madrid ACC, going south, all to the Shannon OTA, going north.

T9 and T219 are a halfway house of not domestic control, but closer separation than normal Oceanic airspace (procedural, as mentioned). They also have VHF and Radar coverage the majority (all on good days) of the route, which allows the closer separation.

Still a HF requirement, but only 1 radio, instead of the usual 2.

Used extensively during French ATC strikes. along with other Tango routes and then land routes via MUAC.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326269#Comment_122326269

sorry ?! What exactly are you responding to in my post ?

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353452#Comment_122353452

you said it's French controlled… it's not

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353674#Comment_122353674

I think you are confused. Maybe reread my post.

moonshy2022

everything to the right of the blue vertical line from La Corona to Youghal excluding London, Shannon and Madrid airspace is French controlled airspace, controlled by Brest.

As per my first post.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355932#Comment_122355932

Now find Tango Routes T9 and T290 and let me know where they are

EchoIndia

Any chance you could take this spat offline?

AnRothar

the map above lis missing details.

can you link the original?

Suspect it's a coverage map but if so what's it centred on?

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356696#Comment_122356696

no

moonshy2022

They would be left of the blue line in Shanwicks airspace. Right of it is controlled airspace, covered by radar worked by Brest control.

Now read my first post again.

moonshy2022

I was responding to AnRothar in my 1st post where they said the Bay Of Biscay was Oceanic airspace.

The Bay of Biscay is inside the yellow lines. It is French controlled airspace, service provide by radar controllers from Brest.

I never mentioned the Tangos. Others did. They are in red.

I specifically mentioned the blue line which is effectively a line from Youghal to La Coruna. That is the edge of French controlled airspace.

Which bit of the above posts is inaccurate ? I feel you have misread and misunderstood my first post or attributed someone else’s post to me, that’s why I have repeatedly asked you to read my first post again.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356997#Comment_122356997

I wonder what is parallel to that line, slightly outside the BOTA?

AnRothar

Ah Hermes you win, I yield.

To the original poster I reiterate the following.

we all know that the French ATC routinely declare strikes over the summer months.

No they don't "routinely" declare strikes.

They do occasionally declare strikes, but its not a daily/weekly/monthly event as you seem to fear/imply.

Or as often hyped here on boards or elsewhere.

If they actually strike the day you fly, and your flight is impacted then this can be a problem.

This becomes a "human interest" story which the media love.

See the current Aer Lingus dispute.

If however they strike the day before/after you fly then you would be scratching your head wondering what all the fuss is about.

As I said the likelihood is overhyped and over blown by the media, and others.

My question is regarding flights to Mallorca. Would they reroute down the bay of Biscay then fly along the north of Spain? 

Please define what you mean by the Bay of Biscay.

😁😁😂😂🤣

More seriously however the possible route flown it will depend on who you are flying with and where you are departing from.

 Or would airlines just cancel the flights and not take the extra fuel burn?

The airline will make a decision based on many factors but mostly about money.

The cost of a longer route flown will be balanced against compensation possibly due for example.

Your airline has a responsibility to you under EU regulations, so worry about things you have control over.

EICVD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357806/question-re-atc-strikes-in-france-and-flight-routes

That’s exactly the way I returned home from PMI 2 years ago because of an aforementioned strike. Probably got lucky that the flight departured DUB pretty much on time & was only slightly delayed due to the longer routing rather than being delayed by having a slot issue.