Having house rewired soon. Anything I should plan for?

gnolan

We're having our house rewired in the next couple of months and I want to make sure I don't miss anything. For context, we're planning on extending in 2-3 years time but want to rewire now as we're looking at making renovations to the existing structure now.

We plan on getting solar in the future but not now, so I've asked the electrician to include cables for solar that run to the attic. Does this make sense? He seems happy to do it and hasn't discouraged me from it.

He has priced in mains-wired heat detectors, smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors. I'm not so sure about this. My concern is that these will need some sort of control panel and we've nowhere to put that right now. The house is small (70 sqm) and space is at a premium. Would run-of-the-mill battery-powered detectors be so bad?

I've decided against ethernet even though this is something I've always wanted. Has anyone regretted not installing ethernet?

Is there anything else I should be looking at including?

HeidiHeidi

Think of the number of sockets you think you'll need (particularly in the kitchen, but also in other rooms) and double it!

drury..

Afaik it's mains only alarms all rooms except bathroom for a new build

Afaik building regs allow the 10yr battery type with wireless interconnect if there was no alarms previously in an existing residential dwelling

The no1 most useful addition ime is pir lighting internally in walkways, toilets etc and externally

gibgodsman

Hard wired detectors etc do not need a control panel, I just had my whole house rewired, almost identical size to yours too.

Things I wish I planned for was being at the house while they were working, because my god they really did try get away with so many mistakes, the electrian who owns the company has been at the house once since it started, his apprentices and 1 older guy have been at the house since, numerous issues including missing sockets that were marked out clearly, cheap lighting pendants being used that the cap keeps falling off, light motion sensors not working at all, being lazy while chasing and just giving up completely on it with a full wall in the kitchen, just having all the wires hang under the counters. Anything I say is wrong I just get told "Thats how its done" like I haven't a clue

Be annoying, hang over them and ensure the house is done exactly how you got quoted

the_amazing_raisin

Run cables for an EV charger at some point in the future, including some basic twisted pair cable like ethernet since a lot of EV chargers use a current sensor on the mains feed to the house

Have cables run to outside for shed, they could be terminated in a junction box outside and then join up the shed cable later

Ditto for an outdoor lighting circuit

I'd run extra socket and lighting circuits to the attic for a conversion later

You might consider running network cabling through the house. If you do, then I'd recommend running a cable or two back to wherever a fibre cable will come in. It means you can relocate the router and other network gear to a comms panel somewhere discreet

Also run ethernet cables for future CCTV systems

In general, it might be worth trying to install some internal ducting for power and data cables. You could have one going up through the house and a few perpendicular to the direction of joists

In theory, it'll make it a lot easier to install cables later if you forgot now. In a similar vein, install a bigger consumer unit than you need for future expansion

Padre_Pio

Get Ethernet routed around the house, especially to the doorbell, and factor in security cameras. Much more reliable than wireless.

gnolan

Thanks everyone for the replies.

@gibgodsman Hard wired detectors etc do not need a control panel, I just had my whole house rewired, almost identical size to yours too.

That's good to know. Seems like an easy enough decision to go with mains-powered then.

Things I wish I planned for was being at the house while they were working

I see what you mean. I'm really not sure how feasible this would be but I'm also not sure if I'd be in a position to say if the work they're doing is up to scratch or not.

@the_amazing_raisin Run cables for an EV charger at some point in the future

I hadn't thought of this. The consumer unit is right at the front door so hopefully this won't be an issue.

When it comes to ethernet, are we talking about running a length of CAT6 from the current router location (Virgin Media right now) to each socket I want? So if I want 8 ethernet outlets, I'd want 8 runs of CAT6? Do I need a patch panel or something as well in the router location? I haven't done much research on this as I'd been thinking that wireless would do the job.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122298746#Comment_122298746

A lot of EV charger can be wired into the meter box now so it's less critical, but it does result in an external consumer unit which can be a bit of an eyesore

For network cabling, it's a star topology, so each network port will be wired to a central location where the router will be. Cat6A can often be bought for similar price to Cat6 and has better shielding, so less chance of interference from power cables

It doesn't have to be where the existing router is, I've seen a lot of people putting a comms cabinet into a hot press or other less visible area

Typically a fibre broadband installation will have an indoor unit on where the fibre cable connects. The other end is an ethernet cable to your router, often by the front door. If you have an ethernet socket nearby then you can relocate the router to the comms cabinet and it's a lot neater

For SIRO the fibre optic cable usually comes in close to the meter cabinet. Dunno where Eir install their fibre cable, probably close to where the phone wire comes in

A lot of then might also bring TV cables to the same location and you can wire a sky dish into there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357127/having-house-rewired-soon-anything-i-should-plan-for

I deeply regret not installing ethernet. Just stupidity on my part. WIFI is just so compromised that it will drag down the performance of all media players and computers.

My advice is spring for the little bit of extra cash it will take.

Also an outside mains socket is fairly much essential.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299131#Comment_122299131

Don't think wiring rules allow a comms cabinet in a hot press

Not if it has electrical equipment as part of it anyhow

salmocab

if you run a cable to the garden for lights from the DB get the electrician to run a twin brown to the switch at the door to make switching it easy. It means you can do the lights at a future time with no messing about with wiring

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301749#Comment_122301749

Ya can use quinetic switches or similar for that now

SuperBowserWorld

+100 for ethernet cables. Secure, fast, low power, no bullshit messing with passwords or competing with bandwidth with all the other wireless stuff in you or your neighbours houses. Have a couple in. Would love more. Such a beautiful technology that is decades old.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301771#Comment_122301771

And an option for POE for some devices.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301784#Comment_122301784

Wow, but only for low power devices. But still. Brilliant.

SuperBowserWorld

Something I'd recommend in hindsight

...

A detailed plan/schematic from the electrician showing where all the wires run, details etc etc.

Would love the same for plumbing.

It should be a mandatory requirement on new builds / rewireing ...

Would save a lot of hassle and costs when maintaining, fixing things.

Maybe it is ?

TheSunIsShining

Neutrals to your light switches. Gives you more options for future smart switches.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301817#Comment_122301817

The routes should be mostly obvious

The only safe route is a vertical drop to a point ie: a switch or socket

youcancallmeal

Might be worth having an electrician install a satellite dish for saorview/freesat and run connections to any points where you'll want to put a TV. I've had it done and plan to not renew my Virgin TV subscription next time it's up. Their streaming box is woeful and you can no longer record RTE and BBC, I think Sky are moving that direction too.

Also as someone else mention have ethernet cable installed and run from each room back to a central location. Very useful for solid reliable wifi and wired connections throughout your house.

Flinty997

I think a mesh solves most WiFi issues these days. But wired is better. Id also consider having a server box cabinet somewhere with power.

Also run all the TV cables to the same location means you have have a media server and also easier configuring of sat to device links and if you have virgin media bb which uses TV cables.

Also I set up a room as an office and it ended being repurposed as a bedroom. So a backup office location wired would have been useful.

paddydriver

OP.. if debating on running Ethernet but cagey on costs - then run it to places where you can best position decent WiFi kit and where you may need devices that need best performance - i.e. TV streaming etc. I see mesh mentioned but its not suited to every house, depending on walls and insulation etc installed, and don't even consider powerline Ethernet as its useless.

No need to run it to every corner of the house as a decent WiFi system with cabled AP's will perform very well - and WiFi is only getting better and better now. Basically aim to have Ethernet to all your AP's and that will mean you can provide them PoE too - and good mention above re CCTV; so is good to think of that now too as its perfectly suited to PoE also.

I've regular 2 storey house and then converted attic - the AP for upstairs and downstairs are 3 ft from each other with one hanging from ceiling in kitchen (a cable dropped thru floor from my office) and one above kitchen in my home office; and they provide coverage to whole house - but both are on Ethernet with PoE. A few well positioned Ethernet points around your house should cover most eventualities - and go for best cabling you can! Don't skimp on it as you want to future proof all.. won't be long before 10Gb+ is coming to houses!

the_amazing_raisin

This is for a future date, but since the OP mentioned solar then it's worth keeping in mind

A lot of inverters have a backup power output seperate to the grid output. If you have a battery installed then it'll feed power from the backup power if there's a mains cut

You can have a socket connected to this which is basically a UPS. I'd suggest running this socket to a comms panel if you have one as it'll allow you to power your internet (and possibly CCTV systems) if there's a power cut

You can also have a changeover switch to power the whole house from the backup power supply. It needs to be within 2 metres of the front door or meter cabinet. Since you mentioned your consumer unit is there then that might work as a location

You'll want to run a second cable from the attic down to the consumer unit in parallel to the one you're getting for an inverter

The changeover switch basically has two inputs, the grid supply and backup power supply. If the grid fails then you switch over to backup power and keep things running

One critical consideration is that the changeover switch has to isolate the neutral on the grid supply as well as the live. This might mean some extra consideration for the electrician, they should be able to figure it out

The changeover switch will also mean you can use solar panels in a grid outage. They're required to go through a fireman switch which isolates the panels from the inverter during a power cut. Restoring power from the backup supply will reactivate the fireman switch

An alternative to the changeover switch is that you can have your kitchen sockets on the backup power supply, so you can at least have a cup of tea. A lot of electricians seem unsure about the rules around a changeover switch and can be reluctant to set one up

It's important to consider the backup power supply probably won't cover your maximum demand. Mine is limited to 5kW for example, which is way below the 12kW the grid is rated for

However it's generally enough to have lights, refrigeration and some cooking. Might even be enough to run a heat pump and have some heating

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301857#Comment_122301857

Safe zones cover more than that no....vertical, horizontal and 150mm from side and top of wall?

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303436#Comment_122303436

Ya but they're not really safe

Vertical drop is the only really safe imo

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303451#Comment_122303451

Just mentioned it to make sure people would know that they shouldn't drill horizontally in line with any fittings.…

Dr.Tom

As someone who was in a similar situation recently and only wanted a house rewire I was advised to do and following as an extra and I did:

Outdoor sockets

CCTV

PIR lighting

E Charger Isolator

Intercom/Gate/Outside lighting wiring

Attic sockets (if applicable to you)

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302115#Comment_122302115

I wouldn't bother. Satellite is on its last legs. Sky and BBC are moving to IPTV. I go for ethernet over that.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304746#Comment_122304746

Will the free HD channels be shut down

If not it's worth having the satellite

Its likely that Sat will be gone within a decade. The TV companies prefer IPTV because they can exert better control over it. Sky has just about stopped new installs so it will all be legacy customers - who will mostly die off. If High Speed broadband were universally available they would already have dropped Sat but they have obligations to their disadvantaged customers.

If you accept that it might be gone in 5years then its still worth investing in Sat for that period. IPTV is frequently geo-blocked in a way which is very hard to get around so Sat still offers access to services which are inaccessable on the internet and frankly 5 years is a lifetime in these things.

However if you have Sat. the best way to pipe it around your house is through ethernet - so its not an either/or.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305320#Comment_122305320

Why is ethernet the best way to distribute in the house ?

I would have thought satellite cable

Flinty997

From the web

"...Coaxial cable is typically used for cable internet, while ethernet cable is often used for wired connections. Ethernet cable can offer higher speeds and lower latency compared to coaxial cable. However, coaxial cable has the advantage of carrying television signals..."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305345#Comment_122305345

You use a receiver as a server. A single set of sat cables can then serve multiple media players. It's more economical and means you don't need sat cable outlets next to every single TV point and you don't need multiple sat dishes.

You can use a SAT-IP receiver to do the conversion from SAT to Ethernet, and then any old PC server can do recording and media server duty. Since off the shelf sat solutions with disk drives are expensive, this approach will be both cheaper and more reliable.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305257#Comment_122305257

The Astra satellite at28.2e is EOL soon. Freeview which already has launched an IPTV box.

Grassy Knoll

my approach is better to have it there and not want it, rather than want it and not have it. Also might be handy to lay a conduit (depending on your house - mines a dormer) to run cables from one side of the house to the other in future. You can never tell what you might need

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308771#Comment_122308771

conduits +1, all with pull wires

gnolan

I appreciate all the replies. The general consensus is clearly to include ethernet. A couple of questions on this

1. Can someone point me to some good resources that describe the set up in the home? I think I'm reasonably clear on the cable runs that are required, but I'm not so clear on the switches/comms cabinet/PoE requirements and how that all connects to the ISP's router
2. Will a decent electrician be familiar enough to handle this installation?

drury..

The spark will do the cable runs for network but that's probably all

Speakers , security and electric gates if fitting. Liaise with installers for these preferably , ime

Decent power to shed depending on use

munsterfan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309291#Comment_122309291

I have ethernet cables all running back to a "hot press" (no longer a hot press, just shelves & MVHR ) upstairs. Network cables were connected to a patch panel and I have power over ethernet switch and a regular switch. There are two cat6 cables to the location downstairs where the fibre comes in, as this is where the NTU will be located. Make sure you have ethernet point and 2 x power sockets beside where fibre enters house / NTU will be placed. I didnt have power there but did manage to run the NTU via PoE. Wifi access points in ceiling, one in each floor, 1 in garage are connected to PoE switches. Security cameras also connected via PoE. If you have time it can be worth powering up wireless AP's and using a network analyser on mobile to check signal strength in each room so you can decide best location for AP's / how many needed.

As house is a few years old, I have satellite on garage with 4 coax running back to this room from garage and a coax patch panel to allow me patch these through to rooms which have 3 x coax to each tv location. Saorview aerial also patched to here into a 4 way splitter.

gnolan

@munsterfan2 I have ethernet cables all running back to a "hot press" (no longer a hot press, just shelves & MVHR ) upstairs. Network cables were connected to a patch panel and I have power over ethernet switch and a regular switch. There are two cat6 cables to the location downstairs where the fibre comes in, as this is where the NTU will be located. Make sure you have ethernet point and 2 x power sockets beside where fibre enters house / NTU will be placed.

Apologies in advance for breaking this down to the very basics, but for my own understanding - let's say you have 10 runs of ethernet though your house. All 10 run to your former hot press and are connected to a patch panel. You have a switch and a PoE switch in the hot press, presumably with both plugged into a power outlet in the hot press? Depending on the requirement of each ethernet cable run, you either link from the patch panel to the non-PoE switch, or from the patch panel to the PoE switch. So, maybe CCTV, wireless AP or doorbell might require PoE and as such goes from patch panel to PoE switch. And then maybe you've got a cable run to a media server which doesn't require power, so you've got a connection for that cable from the patch panel to the non-PoE switch.

Finally, your two switches need to be connected to the router (I think your setup is different but I'm assuming a Virgin Media router would work the same), so you run two CAT6 cables (one for each switch) back to the router. Each cable would be connected on one end to the uplink port in the switch, and on the other end to a free ethernet port on the router.

Have I got that right or am I way off the mark?

munsterfan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310480#Comment_122310480

Yes, although a single run to the router would be OK too and just a cable connecting the two switches.

gnolan

Thanks @munsterfan2 . When you say

Make sure you have ethernet point and 2 x power sockets beside where fibre enters house / NTU will be placed

Are these two power sockets for the NTU and your own router, or something else. And the ethernet point is connected to your cabinet that contains your switches?

munsterfan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310578#Comment_122310578

One for NTU & one for router. Yes, ethernet back to cabinet

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308859#Comment_122308859

+2 for conduits, and also have a conduit or two going vertically from the CU to the attic

drury..

The problem with conduits going direct to attic is that they'd be concealing wiring

Rules don't allow that