Kerry Co Op Shares

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread..

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EXPECT HEAVY MODERATING WITH LITTLE CHANCE OF MERCY IN THIS THREAD.

Warnings will rapidly give way to bans as time progresses, although the possibility of heavier outbursts can not be ruled out.


Take care out there.

ftm2023

For those of you who may be interested - it is now being said that there will be a vote in September about Kerry Co Op’s JV with Kerry Group

Long story short the Co Op want to come down to 5.3 PLC shares per Co Op share. Back in 1996 the ratio was 11 PLC shares per Co Op share

At 5.3 PLC shares the Co Op shareholders will only be getting €400 per Co Op share at today’s share price.

Needless to say all the smart money has gotten out of the Co Op already. I mean like, the smart guys sold up and went into property in a very big way. Their property is worth 50% more and the Co Op shares are worth 1/3 less.

A good businessman is always in the right place at the right time

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248886#Comment_122248886

What problem is there with a democratic vote on this JV ?

It is not Kerry co ops fault that share price has declined ,

One thing that annoys me about Kerry co op is they approved a bonus of 10 millon euro paid to Kerry plc directors and management last year .This would make me wary of cosy arrangement between both plc and co op and what spin will they put on this JV!!

ftm2023

Hi Cute George. No problem with a democratic vote. They can all eat one another as far as I’m concerned. I sold all my shares.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249003#Comment_122249003

how did you come into pocession of the shares you sold inheritance?

In fairness mutiple generations have benefitted financially almost like a lotto win, alot of co-ops nationwide started in the same era never returned any windfalls for their members like kerry co-op

ftm2023

I bought them. They were there for anyone to buy. It was a license to print money. Anyone with any common sense bought them.

There was nothing like a lotto win about it. It was a good investment. I didn’t pull names of companies out of a hat and decided which ones I was going to buy shares in. To say it’s like a lotto win is disrespectful to the people who were able to invest their money properly. The people who got the “patronage shares” from the co-op for their nominal value, now it was “like a lotto win” for them because they were handed the shares for effectively nothing

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248928#Comment_122248928

That's interesting as there was no mention of a AGM date this year and it's already june

kevthegaff

I remember I was down in Dingle good few years ago, and 70 acres of bog had made nearly a million. Local lad said it was share money driving de land prices. How much did the average supplier get? Say a 100 cow fella

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249058#Comment_122249058

Do you supply milk to kerry co-op, our a dry shareholder

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249193#Comment_122249193

A 100 cow man would of gotten over a quater of million plus worth of shares alone through the share partonage scheme at todays value, if milking throughout this period

Screenshot_20240612_094844_Chrome.jpg

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249319#Comment_122249319

There wasn't too many 100 cow herds in the Kerry catchment during that period. More like average of 50 or 60.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249394#Comment_122249394

Avergae kerry supplier is sitting on a 170k of shares though, present day and in that youll have men with up on a million that can be cashed in at their choosing, its gas though the other co-op in the country that has a sizeable net worth through its members shares in a plc wont allow its members to convert their co-op shares under any circumstances to plc unless they want approval for their latest take-over/aquistition with a few breadcrumbs in a spinout and their isnt a tenth of the outcry over it, when their should be….

The infighting and divison between kerry suppliers/co-op heads/ and the plc will probably result in the whole operation been run into the ground and the likes of dairygold/tirlin taking over the milk-pool

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249319#Comment_122249319

And I used to to be wondering how the lads up there had all the fine machines and second houses.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249632#Comment_122249632

My father supplied kerry for years and got patronage shares and whatever others.

I never got any shares. So at this stage It’s the previous generation that benefitted from kerry shares and most of them have been passed on to other family members through inheritance.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249805#Comment_122249805

Thus saving the farm been asset stripped when passed on, to keep other family members looking for their piece of the pie, nice little nest egg for older suppliers to help fund their retirement and not having to take it out of the farm…

Its the generation after yourself that will see little to no benefit id argue

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249783#Comment_122249783

It seems lost on them though strangley enough, they have a victim complex of been hard done by, when they our their fathers/mother etc have benefitted hugely down through the years from the plc/co-op

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249632#Comment_122249632

Dairygold havent a bob… Kerry will take over dairygold before dairygold takeover Kerry you can be sure of that… the shares thing is getting a bit tiresome… Kerry is 50 years old… a young farmer that was around when it started is now minimum in his/her mid 70's.. if they have family shares have probably been given to daughters or sons that didnt get land… i doubt if too many Kerry dairy farmers in their 20's 30's or even early 40's are rolling around in it from kerry shares

ftm2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249319#Comment_122249319

That screenshot you posted is fake news. The patronage share scheme didn’t start in 2007. That started in 2000, it was at a rate of 2 Co-op shares per 1,000 gallons of milk produced. Then when we bailed GV out and brought them in under our wing it was changed to 1 Co-op share per 1,000 gallons of milk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249632#Comment_122249632

Kerry Co Op has 13,000 shareholders and is only worth €1.5 billion. Meaning the average shareholder would only have €112,000 worth of shares. Lots of the milk supplier shareholders nowadays would have absolutely no shares so there’s no way that the average milk supplier would have €170,000 worth.

As regards the big boys only having up to €1m worth of shares? 😂😂 not a chance buddy. You’re way off. That’s more like the haircut they’d get on their shareholding if the JV went ahead 🤣

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122250546#Comment_122250546

Is this a full spin out proposal of all the coop share value if JV accepted by shareholders ftm

ftm2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122250643#Comment_122250643

It would be a full CGT spin out, some people are saying it would be 5.6 though and that would hopefully be more like it. Don’t think people would or should vote for 5.3. Also I’ve been told it would be optional but IMHO you’d have to be bananas to leave your shares in the co-op, best bet is take them out and pay the CGT. For anyone who would stay put the co-op would try carry on the cash for shares scheme apparently but that wouldn’t work with participation exemption tax laws etc

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249931#Comment_122249931

My father's shares have had no effect on our farming business over the years. He has now distributed all farming assets and is retired and all shares are still intact in his name.

I don't know what kind of asset stripping you're talking about.

The biggest effect Kerry shares had around here was anytime there was a bit of land for sale the auctioneer would be telling you there is a Kerry man interested. Some sold shares and their own land into forestry and relocated. Cute hoors in Kerry.

ftm2023

Ginger22 would you consider joining it? I think in my honest to God opinion that they’re going to get an embarrassingly small amount of support

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257935#Comment_122257935

Its nice to know that Kerry have one happy supplier.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258062#Comment_122258062

His father before him probably got a few shares. Makes up for it all I hear....

ftm2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258062#Comment_122258062

The producer group has been set up by former co-op board members to undermine the current co-op board. They’re lovely people but they’ve no modus operandi. They’ve literally no plan. I don’t think they’re remotely interested in supplying milk to any other co-op’s or anything. Whatever the answer is it’s not the producer group in my honest opinion.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259127#Comment_122259127

I'll go to one of the meetings but it seems like a big risk to leave the devil you know....

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259195#Comment_122259195

AFAIK the plc and CoOp board have hatched a plan to sell the milk processing. Suppliers will be asked to share up based on their milk supply. Dry share holders will be bought off with a capital gains share redemption scheme. CoOp will be obliged to supply ingredients to PLC. Do you think this is a good deal for suppliers.

ftm2023

It’s probably going to be an equally bad deal for all involved. Ideally the co-op should be liquidated. Shares shouldn’t be taken off anyone and used to buy milk processing. However just look at the people that get elected to the co-op board over the last 10 years or so. This could have ended an awful lot worse for all involved.

If you were a good farmer or good businessman you’d absolutely no chance of being elected on to the board and a very poor chance of even being elected on to the advisory committee. A guy milking a couple dozen cows beat a fella 3:1 at advisory level a few years near here and that just exemplifies the goings on of these election. The guy that lost would arguably be one of the best farmers in Ireland and as for the other fella the less said the better.

People took it upon themselves to elect these people to look after billions of euros of everyone money and as for the JV now it’s a case of you reap what you sow. The whole co-op should have been spun out after the 1996 spin out, once Kerry Co-Op’s shareholding in the PLC dropped below 50% in 1996 it had absolutely zero reason to continue to exist.

I know they by the way represented us on milk price but I don’t think anyone is buying that line anymore. I’d do a better job myself of representing milk suppliers than the whole board put together

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261813#Comment_122261813

If this joint venture proposal is to be voted for at a SGM...will all shareholders including Cs be eligible to vote or the As and Bs only…I'd think all shareholders in Kerry coop don't mind contributing to cost of milk processing facilities.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261887#Comment_122261887

Why would dry co op shareholders ever vote to contribute to processing facilities they will never vote in favour of that, why in a spin out would they give up shares so others can benefit from it?

cap.in.hand.

This vote looks like a chance to finally fully cash in for the dry shareholders for good out of the coop so a once off contribution from their shareholding is a fair exchange....it was the milk and milk processing facilities all along that contributed to share values.

ftm2023

Ya so basically what would happen is

A haircut on the shares from 6.14 to 5.6

You would then be able to take out your shares under CGT at a ratio of 5.6 - crucially it would be a once off optional event

The shares confiscated from shareholders with the “haircut” would be used to fund the JV

A big loan would have to be taken out and the JV would be paid for out of the milk

Personally as someone that bailed out in time before the share price crashed I’d be thinking shareholders should take this opportunity if the ratio is 5.6 or higher and go and invest their money elsewhere. S&P 500 would be as good a long term investment as any

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262035#Comment_122262035

I'm always impressed by the lads on here, saying " you were a fool not to buy and then your a fool not to sell". I never had money for investing, "thankfully". Always building or fixing or doing up land. So tell me, if you have money today the 15/6/24, what will you buy/invest in.

cute geoge

Every type of asset seems dear but surely property with a return of 4~5% is still atractive .At the end of the day shares are only a bit of paper as plenty have found out.

Sacrolyte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261813#Comment_122261813

just because a guy milks more cows doesn’t mean he would be a better representative at co op board level. Don’t insult the intelligence of voters either. Just because a guy might be a small farmer or doesn’t look after his ship at home doesn’t mean he’s not capable at board level.

ftm2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264107#Comment_122264107

So because someone can’t run their own tiny little business that you could probably get a 12 year old to run doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be left in charge of literally billions of euros of other people’s money? Hahaha good one pal, thank god my money is tangled up in that nonsense anymore anyway

K.G.

When did we all become such worthless cowards.i ve been thinking away about this thread and the milk price thread and how have we become so detached from ownership of our coops.you own your coop ,if it goes under its a reflection on you or me for that matter.when our local coop was set up men put up their farms as collateral for loans,in a neighbouring coop one man wrote personal checks for the first 3 months milk.they felt that it that important to get their milk processed and have control of it.compare that to the squabbling that's going on in Kerry at the moment and in the meantime milk production is being sold down the swanny to the point where I think the only way out will be to become wandering salesmen hawking their milk to however will take them.what set us apart from the beef industry was the coop model and it has been good to us but we seem to totally sight of the bigger picture.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268811#Comment_122268811

Looks like Kerry coop wants to get more involved in the milk business and not having dry shareholders only milk suppliers/shareholders which is the right approach to take especially for Kerry coop given the recent turmoil .

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248886#Comment_122248886

What exactly is going on? The plc management is doing a crap job, as seen in the share price performance, massively underperforming peers over 3 and 5 years, and now the co-op shareholders are being asked to take a further reduction on the value of their holding?

I was amazed the CEO and CFO got their new bonus structure approved - shareholders should be furious rather than rewarding failure

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275075#Comment_122275075

The plc share and coop share have different management so aren't connected... I suppose Kerry plc shares were overvalued …not too sure will they hit the the same highs ever again

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275250#Comment_122275250

They have dropped from 125 euros to 75 in less than three years. And are still dropping..
What caused this ? Surely they were and still are an extremely successful company . Does anyone on here have any knowledge of what has happened ?

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275806#Comment_122275806

And they are buying back their own shares and it's making no difference to share price plus no acquisitions seem in the pipeline...€75 looks excellent.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275907#Comment_122275907

Kerry spent 20 million in the last 5 days buying it own shares while paying the lowest milk price and telling their milk suppliers they should work better at reducing costs . Imo it is a complete farce management running the company into the ground

flyer_query

I hope this isn't a repeat of what we have seen over the years where single agenda posters join to shout from their soapboxes about their problem with Kerry and in the process post in a really arrogant and rude way against any other poster who dare counter their view. Sorry to say @ftm2023 but you look like one of these posters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057596027/major-problem-kerry-group-old-shares

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057734960/kerry-co-op-shares

The mod in the above thread summarized it very clearly

Mod:
Get a blog; this is a discussion forum and your posts for all intent and purpose read like blog posts. You don't want debate; you want people be join you in righteous outrage and seeing how you've already picked up multiple bans on this topic and I'm simply going to nip this one in the bud. Post on the topic in this category again and you'll face a category ban; this is your only warning and goes for anyone else who wish to try to blog on boards about the subject as well and I wish you the best in your fight (seriously I do but this is not the forum for it).

ftm2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312826#Comment_122312826

Hi @flyer_query … so I didn’t ask anyone to start this thread. I don’t even look at boards from one end of the week to the next. I’ll have you know I sold all my shares before they crashed. And don’t you worry. I couldn’t care less if you all eat one another so I won’t be trying to influence anyone’s opinion

As a matter of fact I’ve injected extremely little opinion into this thread. Just shared mostly facts that everyone would most likely be interested in. The smart guys got their money out of the co-op, invested it well and became so well off that they don’t need to worry above the price of milk. Guys that bought up millions worth of property.

The fact you’ve such a problem with me looks like you’ve a chip on your shoulder. Jealous of people who made it big out of the shares. I think people should vote for the JV, I’m on the side of the kerry co-op board with this so I’ve absolutely no idea what you’re talking about

cowman10

You’re Definitely the same lad! No question.

kerry cow

Ftm 2023

I too bailed out of the co op , thankfully ,

I agree 100% on your view of the poor selection of our co op board and it’s a reflection of the total mess we now find ourselves in , the wrong people have been elected for a long time , why , because the successful progressive farmers are not necessarily liked in kerry and they all know that and don’t bother putting themselves forward for election , that is the sad reality ,

These are the men and women who have driven on their business , and have foresight , I could name 10 big farmers names that should be in that board , and they are all in north kerry and I bet there are 20 more in limerick , and others in clare or west kerry , and none are on the board , ftm knows what I am saying ,

As for the jv , if the east limerick guys move or some of the bigger milk supplier , then the jv boat can’t float ,

why should a 100 cow man in kerry be paid 1500 less than a man in another coop for month of may as reported in media recently , they both get up and milk their cows , and we know that kerry plc is in profit ,

It’s time guys realise that the plc is a business and farmers need to wise up and fight for payment closer to the top of the league , and if kerry can’t deliver , then others will ,

Time of change is coming and like selling my co op shares , maybe it’s time to be smart and jump ship ,

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316359#Comment_122316359

Your kinda contradicting yourself in your post about all the successful progressive farmers in north Kerry/west kerry/Limerick/clare who are Kerry coop shareholders and Kerry plc suppliers all this time.…it obviously was no hindrance to them who was on the Kerry coop board all this time .

ftm2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316359#Comment_122316359

Best post I’ve ever seen on here KerryCow. Absolutely excellent. Read it out at the breakfast table this morning and we all agree here 100% with what you said.

Me or you would have a better chance of being voted in as the next president of America than we would have of being ever voted onto the co-op board. If either of us put our names forward we could probably count what votes we would get on both our hands.

<MOD SNIP>

I've removed content to stay within the poster's own metric of: fact, very little opinion.

Previous threads on this subject have contained too much rancour.

Posters who posted in them will not be surprised to learn that this thread will be closely monitored.

The way I personally feel about the producer group is that those farmers that want to leave Kerry would be better off just going to another co-op altogether when their contract with kerry expires. Personally I would not like the way how with the producer group you would not have security of tenure. Kerry’s milk price is a disaster, they should have offloaded the dairy business 10 years ago, whole thing is a massive mess and I doubt anyone else would ever want to buy it.

greysides

Mod: A 'whether' advisory has been put into the first post of thread. Please note.

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317019#Comment_122317019

I know I shouldn't.

But if you can only get a handful of votes, at a coop election, aint that saying that people don't like ye. I know if I ran here, I would get the two seats. But meetings are too boring.

Ye are moaning about a couple of cent a litre after getting a lottery win, a few years ago. 200000. 500000, figures thrown around. There are farmers in other coops that have milked cows 50 years and could not save anything like that.

<Modsnip>