FF/FGs "celebrity" election candidates.

Peter Flynt

This has been picked up on by the journalist Gavin Reilly on Virgin Media TV.

Cynthia Ni Mhurchú (FF) - a Eurovision song contest presenter.

Nina Carberry (FG) - A former jockey

Maria Walsh (FG) - A Rose of Tralee winner

Mairead McGuinness (FG) - former RTE presenter.

You could even add in former GAA president Sean Kelly (FG)……

Are FF/FG choosing candidates based on celebrity factor in order just to win seats at the expense of talented, hardworking members of their parties who have given years of service canvassing for votes, knocking on doors etc….?

Are FF/FG concenrned with the quality of candidate they're presenting to the electorate or is it just about "winning" using the celebrity billy barry factor?

sydthebeat

Are you claiming these candidates are less hard working and talented* ?

*What exactly requires to a "talented" politician is very much up for debate.

For example you refer to Cynthia Ni Mhurchú as a Eurovision song presenter when in fact she is a legal barrister for the last 26 years

Augme

It's about winning, that's what elections are always about. Party faithful and their members know that. In a EU election, given the size of the areas, name recognition is absolutely huge. In reality, very few TDs would pick European over being a TD either unless a well known TD is willing to run a parties options could be limited.

If the electorate aren't concerned about the quality of candidate, why should a political party be?

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257863#Comment_122257863

The onus is always on the political party to present the best political candidate to the electorate. Politics should not be the preserve of a class of people who, quite frankly, have done little for the parties they represent or communities they aspire to represent.

FF were also up to this when they sought out the guy who intervened in the Parnell Square stabbings, Caio Benicio - they were literally looking to gain political capital on the back of an awful incident.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257882#Comment_122257882

The onus is on the electorate to choose who they think is best for the job.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258011#Comment_122258011

The electorate are a fickle bunch who can be exploited in many ways, celebrity candidates unfortunately is one of them. And it's not just Ireland either, Donald Trump is one of the highest profile examples, and look what a mess that turned out to be.

The parties should do better, those who put celebrity and status over competence when choosing candidates show their contempt for the office and the electorate.

gipi

Mairead McGuinness didn't go up for election as an MEP this time around. She served 2 terms (I think) as an MEP.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258011#Comment_122258011

It actually isn't. Political parties across Europe seek the best candidates. Notoriously in their best days (not these days) the Conservative Party in the UK would have a shortlist of 500+ candidates for each parliamentary seat with a rigourous interviewing procedure then occurring in each constituency. That's basically the case for mainstream political parties (usually those of government) in most EU countries (esp Germany) also.

In the end the electorate choose what is presented before them for they have no control over who is presented before them. Most/few know the years of donkey work some aspiring candidates do and end up picking "de one off the telly" who joined the party a few months ago.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258026#Comment_122258026

those who put celebrity and status over competence when choosing candidates show their contempt for the office

I agree. Unfortunately those people are the voters who are the ultimate decision makers.

I find it tedious in the extreme how people are so willing to abdicate any responsibility for the state of politics. Politicians do what they do because that is what we have told them we want them to do via our actions.

Brussels Sprout

The run these candidates for two reasons:

1. Instant name recognition in massive geographical constituencies.
2. They win.

On point #1, a popular local TD on one side of a constituency that spans half the country might be unknown on the other side of it. Notice how all those celebrity candidates weren't run in the Dublin constituency.

I'd add Liadh Ni Riada to the list as well. SF ran her in 2014 in Ireland South. It was her first ever election for anything and she was best known for who her father was.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258026#Comment_122258026

They also show contempt for members of their own party when someone is parachuted in with no political experience and they only thing they've got going for them is that they were on a dance show on RTE a few years back.

FF/FG have a responsibility to put serious candidates in front of the electorate. it is also noteworthy that this choosing-the-celebrity culture occurs mainly for European elections and tends to happen less for Dáil elections.

flazio

Wasn't the Ukrainian president a big actor before he took office?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258092#Comment_122258092

Comedian, actor, film and TV producer.

Roland Regan was also an actor.

Qaanaaq

Well Trump is the ultimate Celeb politician

Field east

putting. N Carberry up was a very novel choice that worked out for FG. So it must have done its homework. The only thing that she , APPARENTLY’ has going for her is her skill as a jockey and also ‘dancing with the stars’. She was quite a successful rider IN A MANS ‘ WORLD. She had to negotiate that field - both on and off it. She also had to ‘deal with ‘other jockeys’ at various levels and on various issues along with dealing with stable yards, owners and trainers’,. She also had to manage her financial affairs, negotiating income payments, investing savings, etc. and because of the business she was in she had to be well organised re scheduling planes, transport , rides, accommodation, eating regime, etc,etc.

Overall’ she had to be VERY DISCIPLINED in order to get to where she got.

A lot of the above experiences are VERY transferable to her current position - dealing with MEN, negotiating, constantly travelling, ability to fully engage in issue at hand, very disciplined.

So , I would definately write her off at this point in time. I would give her 4 years + to show her METAL. The bar is low anyway when you consider some of the MEPs’ we have elected back the years

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258109#Comment_122258109

Of course you mean Ronald Regan

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258148#Comment_122258148

Same as Farage. Although it's interesting that none of our celeb politicians come from parties of the left.

Sam Russell

Mullooly is a celeb, but on his own ticket.

Just because a candidate is well known does not necessarily detract from their abilities. A good politician can read the room, and has the ability (?) to blow through the small stuff - at least they should be able to avoid the BS. A person who interacts with many many people from all walks of life may well hone those abilities. Nina Carberry should at least have a quantity of horse sense.

However, there are few politicians anywhere worldwide who are paragons - most just look in the mirror to justify their views and actions.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258189#Comment_122258189

Serious question about Carberry. A lot of jockeys leave school before their leaving cert. To go work in yards and to train to become jockeys.

Did Nina Carberry finish school. As in did she do her leaving cert. No disrespect to her if she didn't. But I did get visited by canvassers who claimed she didn't.

easygoing39

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258646#Comment_122258646

I dont know what passing youre Leaving Cert has to do with anything.I know lads in management who left school at 15 yrs old and earn a 6 figure salary.I would say that the fact that she's been very successful in her 1st job,plus the points made by Field East above gave the public the confidence to vote her in.

Sam Russell

Nina Carberry was a lady in a man's sport - that takes guts. Mind you, being a jockey takes guts as well.

You need to have guts to be a politician.

gipi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258399#Comment_122258399

Of course you mean Ronald Reagan ....☺️

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258763#Comment_122258763

I think there are more requirements to be a good politician than "having guts"

Tommy Robinson had guts to go out and be openly racist and have your family and friends and everyone else connected to you now associated with a despicable human being. Having guts does not mean you are any good at any thing, just that you stuck out and did something different.

Being a female jockey does not automatically mean you have the skills to be a good policitian, a negotiator for Ireland at the European stage, someone able to weave through the massive bureaucracy that is EU parliament.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258801#Comment_122258801

There's not much point being the best "good politician" on the planet if you're unable to get Johnny Sixpack and Julie Poutylips to vote for you!

First you get elected, then your voters have an opportunity to see whether or not you deliver; and then - and only then - can the electorate decide whether or not you're worth re-electing.

But, taking it even further, when Joe Higgins got elected to Europe his nominated replacement was Smirker Murphy who very few people had ever heard of, and yet he became an unelected MEP when Joe won a Dáil seat. I had voted for Joe but was distinctly unimpressed when his unknown teaboy became an MEP. (That's why I didn't risk voting for Mick McNamara last Friday as his nominated substitute is Mattie McGrath's daughter.)

astrofool

The left tend to turn their politicians into minor celebrities, the centre is a bit of both and the right seems to be "weird hair" celebrities/politicians.

flazio

I thought the Left loved Assange? (That's who's in the first picture isn't it?)

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258646#Comment_122258646

Larry Goodman , Pierce Doherty , Simon Harris , et al come to mind

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260337#Comment_122260337

What is your point? Simon Harris finished school. I am pretty sure Doherty did as well. I have no clue what have added Larry Goodmans name to the list. Do you think Goodman was a public servant or benifical to Irish society?

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260325#Comment_122260325

Assange like Snowden is probably more of a libetarian figure then a left figure. A large cohort of the left hate Assange.

EDIT: I am also pretty sure that is not Assange in the photo.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258027#Comment_122258027

Is it back to Ear to the Ground

Field east

he is the ‘spitting image ‘of that ultra right leader in the Netherlands - could be even his twin!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258763#Comment_122258763

You realise there are also lots of people who have eh "guts" and an education. As timmyntc pointed out it takes a lot more then "guts" to be a politican. Guts is the sort of ill defined term that I have noticed people whos policies are "common sense" like to throw about.

If you think Carberry is a great representive and not just a big name parachuted in. Make a proper case for it. Post examples of her working and representing her community. Give examples she has used her "guts" to stand up to the racing industry or acted against her own best intrests for the sake of her constituents.

Right now all I have getting off her are rural Maria Walsh vibes. With horses instead of tamagotchis.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258646#Comment_122258646

What party were these canvassers from?

This thread is just more sour grapes from SF supporters. If the candidates weren't strong enough to be elected then they wouldn't have been elected, claiming they were only elected because of celebrity is another Mary Lou like swipe at the electorate for being thick.

If the SF candidates didn't get elected then that's solely their issue, they selected candidates in MNW based on 'the cause' and got their answer that people in the South don't care about that.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260376#Comment_122260376

Well, she was a parachutist, and a celebrity, and probably selected for name recognition. I am not defending that, but she is obviously a fighter. However, we will see if she does actually perform as an MEP.

Other candidates are selected for name recognition, such as Biffo's brother, Mullooly, Billy Kelleher, plus a few others.

You need name recognition in such a huge geographical area. There should have used four constituencies - 3, 3, 4, and 4. THat would have cut a chunk off the length of the balance sheet, and made the loonies think twice at trying to get elected in a three seater.

Notmything

Would you be making the same complaint/whine if they ran as independents and not as members of a party?

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260590#Comment_122260590

Does it matter which party they were from? Lets actually answer the question I asked and forget about the Whataboutism.

They were FF. I have no love for SF or sour grapes. I would just prefer that qualified candiates are sent to Europe and not someone who has a bit of a profile. Running candiates because they are a sports person or on TV. Is a slippery slope I would rather no go down.

Instead of talking about Mary Lou and SF, or FF. Tell me what has Carberry done for community before being selected. She active in her community. Has she helped out with community groups in the past (excluding those related to horse racing). None of her canvassers came to my door. Sell her to me. Explain why she was an amazing candiate. Why she will be a fantastic MEP.

She is elected now, and is representing me in Europe. I really want her to be a success. Tell me why she will be. Tell me how she is genuinly invested in representing me in Europe and she isn't just there for kicks. Or the lack of anything better to do.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261224#Comment_122261224

If she ran an Independent, I would still be asking the same questions. More so, if she ran as an independant. I would have written her whole campain as some sort of ego thing.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261140#Comment_122261140

She is in there now. I really hope she will be an amazing MEP.

I do agree about the constituancy. It is far to large. Dublin should be extended up the east coast. Then the rest of the constituancy sub divided. Very hard for anyone to mount a succesfull campain without a party behind you. I admine how Ming is able to do it.

Sam Russell

Perhaps we should limit candidates for MEP to former or current TDs or Senators.

Perhaps include those who stood as TDs who got at least 50% of a quota, and perhaps LA councillors. (But not too sure that last one would be a good idea.) Doing so would eliminate the loons and wingnuts that get eliminated in quick order.

Not sure if restricting candidates would be a good idea, but worth thinking about. Is it democratic, or anti-democratic?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261838#Comment_122261838

Why? It's definitely anti-democratic and I'm not sure what problem it is solving. You could potentially somewhat increase the barrier to being listed on the ballot (more signatures or something) but it is a fundamentally different role from a TD.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261470#Comment_122261470

I think this is as much, if not moreso, a question for the 70k+ people who voted for her though

breezy1985

We live in a country where some vote for people because their father had the job before them so celebrity candidates are not that controversial in comparison.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058355854/ff-fgs-celebrity-election-candidates

Do you have any actual experience of local party (cumann) work, any experience of selecting a candidate, anything at all beyond repeating what a reporter said to backup your post????

And while you are at it you could explain why you think celeberaties should not be entitled to stand for election like everyone else….

Or is this more likely one of the usual excuses rolled out when your preferred candidates did not make the grade….

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261473#Comment_122261473

What about everyone else who runs for office with no previous experience. Are they all on ego trips?

I hope she's a success. And fair play to anyone who decides to step up whether a "celebrity" or not.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262292#Comment_122262292

Is it, according to some posters here she is more then capable for the office. I am asking them, aside from having "guts" and name recognition what she is bringing to the table. Do you know?

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262374#Comment_122262374

Honestly. Yeah, most of them are.

If you have no experience working in your community. As a community activist or in some other capacity. Why else are you running. It is a lot easier to directly help your comminity as local organiser. Then in the Dail.

I give Sean Gallagher as an example. Some might argue that RTE scuppered his chances in 2011, and that he should of won. He ran again in 2018, what did he doing between elections in terms of helping the community or making things better for society. I would argue nothing. The whole thing was an ill guided ego trip.

Same with Peter Casey and Dana. Ego trips.

There is a lot of Whataboutism in this thread. No one has attempted to make any sort of good faith argument for Carberry as a cansiate and did she actually finish school?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262403#Comment_122262403

Clearly you just have something against her for whatever reason, slyly introducing the suggestion that she didn't do her LC before upping the ante.

As suggested, have your truck with the electorate who actually voted her in rather than engaging in a personal tirade which reflects more on you than her.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262430#Comment_122262430

So now instead of Whataboutism. You are throwing an ad hominem attack and the Bandwagon Fallacy at me. Do you have a list of logical falicies that you are working through?

Are you going go tell me next that you are "just asking" questions and that I should go and do my own research?

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262416#Comment_122262416

Genuinely, does it matter if she didn't sit her leaving cert or whatever?

It hasn't held her back in her career seemingly.

gormdubhgorm

If those "celebrity" politicians align with party polices/culture and are capable individuals I do not see an issue with it. Because if they do not do the work/make mistakes they will be found out.

I remember in the 2007 GE Former Dublin Gaelic Football Keeper John O'Leary ran for FF, along with Graham Geraghty FG also a former Gaelic Footballer, from Meath.

he two lads both had a debate on a political programme they were very nervous and both were inept in front of the cameras. Clueless on policy etc. Not surprisingly both former GAA stars did not get elected.

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263062#Comment_122263062

TBH her career is pretty much just piloting a horse. No shade on that. But being good at that does not translate to being a good politican.

It does matter.

• If she did complete her leaving cert.. It means the FF canvassers were lying and both FF, the FF candiate and Ms Carberry need to be made aware of it.
• If she didn't complete her leaving cert. I would question if she is really the best candiate that FG could put forward. A lot of valuable things are taught at leaving cert level. The two most relevant would be critical thinking skills and a second language. Both are invaulable for a MEP. I am not suggesting that they are a requirement. But not having a leaving cert would suggest to me that there are better candiates.

By the way you are using the "special pleading" fallacie.