Visited Dublin and fell in love with Ireland. Looking for a buy to let. Which areas to choose

newbieDublin

Hello everyone.

I am not a regular investor. And not Irish either. I am French. Single mum. And it's my first attempt to invest. I was thinking about buying a 3 bed and renting it out to students or young professionals or a family. Which areas in Dublin would you advise? Thank you very much for your advice. And have a great day in Ireland!

Caranica

Don't do it. Way too risky for someone as a first time investor. Ireland is not small landlord friendly, take it from someone who got out as soon as they could

csirl

In Ireland it is almost impossible to evict someone even if they pay no rent and damage the property. You dont invest in Ireland if you are dependent on the rental income.

Oscar_Madison

Foxrock is a nice area- also Dalkey

SupaCat95

Same as all of the above and stronger!!!! Land lords are fleeing the market. There is no profit margin after you pay 50% tax on rent.

Also find out about the proposed "Right to Accomodation Act". Particularily paragraph 3, "the need to delimit private ownership". Ireland is a bad place to invest on that scale.

vandriver

'There is no profit margin after you pay 50% tax on rent.'

Would a French investor pay 50% with no other Irish income?

whitelaurel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251414#Comment_122251414

are landlords fleeing the market? Seems to be conflicting articles out there.

POBox19

This may be your first attempt to invest, but it could be your last if you want to be a long-distance landlord of property in Dublin.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251548#Comment_122251548

Small independent landlords are.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251548#Comment_122251548

That is for vulture funds REITS and equity capital. Small landlords 1-10 lets are running out of the market. Anyone who bought in the latterdays of the Celtic tiger, survived 2008 crash is worn out. Right now the property market is at an all time high. This is exactly the wrong time to invest.

"If you cannot see the top of the market, you are in the bubble"

Plus there is a distance factor. Its all good on paper. What do you do when it goes wrong? When a pipe bursts mildew on walls and the tenants decide not to pay. God help you if you are involved with the RTB. To rent a property you need to sit on it.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251514#Comment_122251514

The tenant has to hold back 20% as they are non resident. They have to pay tax on 50% of the gross rental as French income tax, at the appropriate rate for their income, minus the 20% withheld in Ireland. As the OP looks to be able to afford to buy a +€400k house they are most likely paying tax at ~41%.

tohaltuwi

I have just got out of being a single property landlord and I had the same great tenants for 18 years. I sold it to them in the end. I was lucky with my tenants in that they cared for the property as if it were their own, and now it is their own. But there’s nightmare stories out there.

As regards nice places, the properties in these are usually astronomically expensive to buy. In Dublin, the top tier locations are mostly near the sea if you look at a map of Dublin Bay. As a very tough rule of thumb the further you go west the cheaper are the prices, and the original social housing starts to predominate. But there are many exceptions to this guideline.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251514#Comment_122251514

"There is no profit margin left after you pay 50% on your profit margin"

….. somehow

JVince

Everyone is assuming that all small landlords are on high rate tax. That makes up a small number of landlords.

I have two investment properties. Both are in pension fund. I pay zero tax on rent and if I sell it I pay zero CGT either. Other I now have the same set-up.

One person I know took early retirement and has 3 properties. He pays about 27% tax on the rent over about 35k (jointly assessed) as its his primary income.

Where there is no value and I would concur with others, is if you have a regular income and paying tax at the higher rate. Then is makes no sense whatsoever.

But in a pension set-up, it can be very profitable

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058355636/visited-dublin-and-fell-in-love-with-ireland-looking-for-a-buy-to-let-which-areas-to-choose

Few questions you need to ask yourself before you go any further based on what you're saying:

1. If you are not a regular investor, why invest in a property in a foreign country? Loving a country you had a holiday in is one thing, investing in a buy to let is another. Are you familiar with Irish rental culture? Are you familiar with the laws here? Are you familiar with the tax system? Are you familiar with the property market here? Do you know a plumber/electrician etc here? Are you aware of your obligations in law to your tenants here? Ireland is an extremely tenant friendly country, we have a history of colonial oppression here and that is reflected in our laws around eviction.
2. Why rent to students? Do you know what 3rd level education institutions there are here and where they are based? Are you happy to only have income 9 months of the year when the colleges are in semester? Are you happy you can screen your tenants before you let to them? Do you have anyone here who can do that for you? Similar questions for young professionals or a family. All vastly different prospects.
3. In terms of which areas to advise, are you aware Dublin is a big city with a population of over a million spread over a large and diverse area? For example, the cheapest three bed in Dublin advertised at the moment is for €198k (in an area you wouldn't expect to attract any students or young professionals) and the most expensive 3 bed is €2.35 million Euro. That's quite a diverse range of pricing. Dublin is one of the most expensive cities in the world to buy property and live in.

There is a lot of questions you need to answer first, you really need to narrow down your options and do your research on a number of things before you can ask the question of which areas in Dublin would people advise. And then after all that you can ask yourself if it's a good idea financially. Ireland is certainly not an invest and forget and watch the money flow in place for a single buy to let absentee landlord.

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Donald Trump

I would doubt the OP is genuine. Too many superfluous details.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058355636/visited-dublin-and-fell-in-love-with-ireland-looking-for-a-buy-to-let-which-areas-to-choose

Malahide, Clontarf and Donnybrook. Howth is also very nice.

tohaltuwi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253505#Comment_122253505

+1

This is very good advice for OP.

If this is all age wine query, re letting from abroad you can employ the services of an agency, in fact you would have to do that, they take 10% of the letting money.

afkasurfjunkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253546#Comment_122253546

visited Dublin and fell in love with Ireland?
well that doesn’t make sense for a start.

nachouser

Darndale.

PopePalpatine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252147#Comment_122252147

Why should a tenant be punished because their landlord didn't think to include escape of water in the policy of their biggest investment?

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265340#Comment_122265340

That is not the question. The question is will she get a safe return on her investment. I would rather invest elsewhere. This has nothing to do with the tenant.

Spanish Eyes

Why not invest in a few properties in France instead?

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256477#Comment_122256477

Dublin is very popular with French people. They tend to live in nice parts of the city & suburbs close to beaches and parks, go to nice restaurants and bars, visit museums & galleries, get involved in sport etc… so their experience of the city is probably more positive than yours.

3DataModem

This isn't advice on location, but some of my own views on the risks on being a landlord in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053262#Comment_122053262

muzakfan

So, you "fell in love" with Ireland and the best way you can think of expressing that is by profiting from it's housing crisis.

Always thought the French had funny ideas about love but this takes the cake.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268374#Comment_122268374

Working, investing, business, trading, capitalism is encouraged in the capital. The state favours private initiative in industry and commerce.

muzakfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268494#Comment_122268494

Indeed, does it still ring a bit hollow however that someone expresses they fell in love with Ireland, but their first thought is how to make money from it's people by buying assets and renting them back.

Very Americain, no Pierre?

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268542#Comment_122268542

Perfectly acceptable. Creating revenue, business and employement, best of luck to the OP, hope it goes well.

muzakfan

Employment? As a small scale residential landlord in absentia? I think the country might just stay afloat with the management fees and small bit of maintenance work quite frankly.

Let me guess, you're a landlord. Only someone "in the game" could see it as anything other than the parasitic economic endeavour it is.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268592#Comment_122268592

Absolutely Employment. Plumbers, electricians, cleaners, builders, plasterers, accountants, management companies… the list goes on.

muzakfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268697#Comment_122268697

That's utilising existing services and trades for once off jobs. No new employment has been created. The level of self aggrandisement from the rentier class is something else. 😂

herbalplants

You do realise that the original poster hasn't responded once to this thread and obviously a troll, getting people arguing between each other.

Where is the moderator when you truly need one!

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269527#Comment_122269527

Employment is employment.

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266027#Comment_122266027

1 Despite being French I will have to pay almost 8% taxes upfront when buying.

2 I'd rather diversify. Laws and climate are changing everywhere.

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256477#Comment_122256477

Why? We have enjoyed talking to people, Irish sense of humour and just the feeling. I do understand Dublin is not the whole Ireland, same as Paris in not France. Nevertheless, some countries you like straight ahead, and some countries are just not yours.

newbieDublin

Quite similar to France. We have very similar laws for that matter

herbalplants

You can buy beautiful homes in France for a fraction of the price of a tired home in Ireland. So why would you want to buy here? Or do you think you can make a bigger profit?

newbieDublin

1 Yes, I did some research regarding the tax system and the Irish rental culture. No, I do not know the market in Dublin. Hence the question.

2 Renting to students as I am familiar with it. We live in a 3 bedroom apartment (I still have 10 years of mortgage to pay it off). and I rent one room out every school year (10 months a year) to a female student. That helps me to pay the mortgage. Young professionals are supposedly also looking for a place to rent

3 I am not looking at anything even close to 2.35 mln or 1 mln eur.

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253378#Comment_122253378

Could you please explain about the pension fund?

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253546#Comment_122253546

What do you mean by superfluous? I tried to explain the situation as I think it is important to understand who you're talking to. Kind of "making acquaintance"

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273931#Comment_122273931

I meant the rental laws. It is also very difficult to evict someone even if he doesn't pay or damage the property. I knew it as a tenant first (as you need lots of papers, warranty, etc. Landlords are afraid to rent out exactly because of these laws).

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273972#Comment_122273972

You can't. The grass is always greener elsewhere, right? Beautiful homes in beautiful places are also very expensive in France. But the stamp duty + legal fees when you buy are way higher (7-8% of the price)

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251371#Comment_122251371

Hi there. Thank you very much. I looked up both these areas. But I am afraid they are far beyond my reach

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268336#Comment_122268336

Thank you very much. This is very thorough

1 This is exactly what I'm trying to get.

2 Do you happen to have a few names?

3 A very similar situation in France. Similar laws. Lots of scary stories.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122274386#Comment_122274386

awe that’s a shame- guess I won’t be seeing you around The Gables restaurant for cocktails anytime soon so - cherrie pip.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058355636/visited-dublin-and-fell-in-love-with-ireland-looking-for-a-buy-to-let-which-areas-to-choose

This would be a very risky first investment. I'm not sure if this sayings works in French, but you would have 'all your eggs in one basket' - the Dublin residential property market. If you're borrowing for part of the investment, this would increase the risk to your own funds, as you'll still owe the bank even if the property drops in value. If you need access to some of your funds, you can't sell a quarter of a house.

I'd suggest some kind of diversified stock market investment fund, where you won't be risking a huge decrease in value. For tax reasons, you'd probably be better with a French fund.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122274431#Comment_122274431

I won't share any names I use here here as it is probably against charter.

But for example if you look at someone like the Landsdowne Partnership, they handle a lot of high-end places in and close to the city (seven currently on offer, at time of writing). They turn down business that is outside the city / too far for them to manage. I dealt with them a long time ago and found them very professional, the tenants liked dealing with them. They are not part of a big conglomerate agent so give better service IMO.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256477#Comment_122256477

If they spent their time along the coast, its very easy to have a great impression of the city.

newbieDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279732#Comment_122279732

Thank you ever so much. Smaller businesses are usually much nicer to deal with.