Low turnout at polling stations.

Just been reading how the turnout of eligible voters for the elections on Friday did not exceed 50%, and a thought crossed my mind. What is the minimum turn-out in Ireland to make an election result legal? Or do we even have such a law?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058355263/low-turnout-at-polling-stations

No such law and rightly so.

Why rightly so? While it is easy to say that it's everybody's choice whether they vote or not, some people got no choice. For instance anyone in hospital. I also heard yesterday that one of the local polling stations was closed when people went to vote at 9pm after getting home from work

I just find it strange that an election can be legal when half the eligible population did not vote, whether willingly or unwillingly

Quantum Erasure

About the same or better than the last local elections,

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122238493#Comment_122238493

There's always going to be people who can't cast their vote for one reason or another. Unexpected admission to hospital, illness at home, being away from home for work, study or leisure, car breaks down on the way to the polling station at 21:55, sudden water leak in the attic that you have to deal with and can't leave the house. The list of possibilities goes on and on.

You have a right to vote, not an obligation to vote. Your right to vote is accommodated as reasonably as possible - but like any right, there have to be practical limits to how far those accommodations go. For instance, there are accommodations available for people who are homebound due to illness or disability, and people who are long-term in hospital or nursing homes to vote remotely. But not every situation can be accounted for, especially last minute ones.

Anyway, this has nothing do do with your original query about voting quorum. In the absence of compulsory voting, it would mean that elections would have to be re-run if a certain percentage turnout was not achieved. And that would mean that the electorate would not be represented in the meantime. You'd effectively be punishing the electorate (including the people who did turn out to vote), for the actions of the people who didn't vote. And what would happen if the second poll didn't meet the quorum either? A third poll? Then a fourth? Chance are that people will in fact be less inclined to vote as fatigue sets in with constant re-running of the election. This is not to mention the extra expense of re-running polls merely based on turnout.

So implementing a quorum would be utterly impractical. One possible solution to your concern would be compulsory voting. And this is done in some countries, with fines for people who refuse to vote without valid cause. Australia and Brazil are two examples. The Netherlands had it until 1993. But globally, it's not a common feature of democracy. There's arguments for it and against it. Personally, I think that the non-participation in the democratic process is itself a democratic right.

Regarding the polling station that you claim closed before 9pm - I'd be interested to hear where that was. I haven't seen any mention of it, and it would be a highly unusual occurrence, given that legally they have to stay open until 10pm.

prunudo

There's a lot of people on holiday this time of year as it coincides with the start of the secondary school holidays.

I do wonder is there merit in having a postal vote or a ballot box somewhere that is left open in a secure location, for say a week, for people who won't be around on polling day.

tohaltuwi

The state can only encourage but not force people to vote. If one is cynical about the choice, it’s up to individuals to pick, in their opinion, the least worst options, because somebody else is going to decide. If people leave the choice to a relative handful of electors, that is on them. Goodness knows people have been very vocal in recent times, so it’s on as many as represent the quieter sector of the citizenry to put their stamp on the shape of our politics. There’s a moral duty to do your best to vote and maintain democracy IMO, democracy was hard won and can be lost in a heartbeat.

Pauliedragon

I can't see it improving. My folks (mid 70s) know plenty of people who are hardcore FFG. Pretty much everyone of them are alligned to a party and would never give up the chance to have their say. My own circle (early to late 40's) not one I can think of are alligned to any party and see voting as a chore and as such if they're day is any way busy voting is the first thing that gets sacrificed.

tohaltuwi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122240953#Comment_122240953

I remember when I turned 18 my father (born 1922), who was more usually a Labour voter, literally pushed me out the door to go to polling station, reminding me of the importance to vote, having explained the PR system. He told me to vote according to my own conscience, not be guided by his own political ideals, ie some disdain for FF.

Later on in life, when my mother was elderly and I had to help her get to polling station and because of Rheumatoid Arthritis had difficulty holding the pencil steadily, I had to fill in voting form. I would ask her what her preferences were, but she would reply “you are still young it’s what might affect your future, that’s how I want to vote”.

Clo-Clo

If people don't want to vote, they don't want to vote. Don't see why it makes any difference to the people that do go out and vote.

hotmail.com

If the Europeans were held on their own I think the turnout would barely get to 40%.

People don't care about the European Union.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241265#Comment_122241265

And yet, they far more important than people give them credit for.

spaceHopper

My mother is classed as house bound, she's 80 has chronic Parkinson's and she still managed to get down to vote.

Lots of people in their 20 and 30's bitch moan and whine about how bad this country. I voted late on Friday, everybody around me was in their 40's.

If you want change you have to vote, otherwise the established politicians have no need to listen to younger people's voices. They give zero fúcks about them because they don't vote.

Maybe we should bring out voting over two days and make it compulsory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241265#Comment_122241265

You have a history of very poor predictions. Don't let that stop you making more poorly thought out predictions.

beertons

My parents haven't voted in years, they're always on holidays.

endacl

There are really only 3 duties placed upon the citizenry by the state. To abide by its laws, to pay through taxation for its upkeep, and to participate through elections in deciding how its run.
If you ignore or run contrary to the first two, the state will come down on you like a ton of bricks. The third, not so much…

Allinall

I’m all for low turnouts.

It makes my vote all the more influential.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241378#Comment_122241378

This is nonsense. There's absolutely no duty to vote in Ireland, and that's why the state don't "come down on you like a ton of bricks" for not voting. To compare it to not abiding by the law or not paying taxes is meaningless, because they do have legal repercussions.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122238493#Comment_122238493

Its been stated already but there are always a number of people who cannot vote for one reason or another. But if you think that 50 percent of the eligible voters were in hospital or the polling station was closed for them?

L1011

The registers are a mess with duplicate registrations for people who have moved and so on - the actual turnout figure is higher than reported due to all those duplicates.

They do usually remove those that have died from it, but they are very poor at tracking people who have moved, particularly across council boundaries.

Tenzor07

Voter turnout was around the 49% last time I checked.

For the last G.E it was around 62% nationally.

The last referendum on care in the home was over 70% I think.

Voter apathy is very high in Ireland, probably down to the fact that we don't have much choice.. FF FG are basically two sides of a coin. Greens/Labour/Soc dem. will support a FFFG led Govt. SF don't offer as much positive change as people want.

dulpit

I wonder how accurate the polling registers are too. My mother used have a job with the Cork County Council to go door to door to check the register and arrange for errors to be resolved. I don't think this was done on a wider basis though.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122240693#Comment_122240693

Absolutely not, because such an arrangement could NOT be done securely.

I do agree that the expansion of postal voting should take place. It is uncommonly restrictive in Ireland. But I don't think it would make a massive difference to turnout for second-order elections.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241436#Comment_122241436

Turnout in the Care Referendum was 44.36% (https://www.thejournal.ie/care-referendum-result-ireland-2024-6318357-Mar2024/)

mrpdap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241420#Comment_122241420

not to mention those who have emigrated but are still registered to vote w

breezy1985

Seems to be very common on Boards now for every election to have posters (usually new ones) "innocently" try to de-legitimate the election.

Genghis

Most people are not aware, but you can actually register for a postal vote. I would say I am more politically aware than most and I only learned of this in some passing procedural comment from a count centre yesterday (i.e. the staff began by opening the postal votes).

Here is more information. Perhaps someone in one of these groups (say a member of the Gardai, or long term illness) would be more aware of the option, but its certainly not an option I heard being promoted from any Commisúin, media, state or political party message where registration in the run up to an election was being advocated.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/registering-to-vote/

From the above link:
Most voters have to vote in person at an official voting centre. However, you may be eligible for a postal vote if you are:

• An Irish diplomat posted abroad, or their spouse or civil partner who is living abroad with them
• A whole-time member of the Defence Forces

You may also be eligible for a postal vote if you cannot go to a polling station because:

• You have an illness or disability
• You are studying full time at an educational institution in Ireland, which is away from the home address where you are registered
• You cannot vote at your local polling station because of your occupation, service or employment
• You are unable to vote at your polling station because you are in prison as a result of an order of a court
• You are a member of the Garda Síochána
• You are registered as an anonymous elector, or you are part of the household of an anonymous elector

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241265#Comment_122241265

I'm not sure where you got your information on people not caring about the EU given that the vast majority of Irish people see our membership of the EU as being important for the country. (Maybe you are just expressing your own bias?)
This importance has become even more evident since the UK made the [foolish] decision to leave and how the various attempts by some towards encouraging an Irexit have been nothing more than a laughing point.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241461#Comment_122241461

Even worse than I thought so.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122240693#Comment_122240693

And how would this be secured? Where would the ballot papers come from? Who would check the identity of the voters and if they are indeed entitled to vote?

We have a system where people can apply for a special or postal vote in certain circumstances.

You can be pretty confident that the huge majority of people who wanted to vote did so last Friday. There might be a very small percentage of people who were unable to vote for some reason, last minute illness, hospitalisation etc

Of the 50% who didn't vote very very few of them were because they didn't have access to their polling station.

ELM327

No, everyone has an opportunity to vote. If they decide not to vote, that's on them.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241420#Comment_122241420

Who is "they"? It's up to the individual voter to ensure they are on the correct register and/or removed from a previous register.

"They" cannot be expected to track people moving house, county, country.

The registers do have a lot of names on it that could be removed. But the people, or family need to be the ones to request the changes or removal.

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241302#Comment_122241302

instead of compulsory voting, just get on with it and let people have postal ballots

The turnout in Germany was 65% nationally and a lot of that is due to the fact that people can get a postal ballot for no reason. So, if they are off visiting their parents or hiking in the mountains or whatever (and being germans they'd have that planned months in advance) they can get a postal ballot.

Theres some worries that it is open to fraud, but in essence someone would need to steal your post to get your election notification letter and after applying for a postal vote, steal your post again to get your ballot. Is a party or entity REALLY going to do that in an organised way ?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241558#Comment_122241558

Councils used to call door to door to do it; was the rate collectors job then continued at lower frequency after rates were abolished.

Also, you used to be removed after a period of non-renewal.

Neither happens now, so the register is full of irrelevancy.

purplefields

People have no real power; the system is rigged.

If Ireland has proper democracy, then we would not have the same people in power since the foundation of the State - FFG. Consider all the times there should have been a change in Government, yet we still have FFG. This is not democracy in action.

Compare Ireland to the extreme case of North Korea.

In North Korea, you know you have no choice who the next Government is going to be. If you speak out you'll probably end up in some horrible prison camp.

In Ireland, you think you have a choice. It's a much better way to keep the dissenting voices at bay. If you complain, you'll just be ignored.

Some people see it for what it is.

CuriousCucumber

When I was in my 20s, I never voted in the local elections. My poling card was still linked to my parents address, and I lived on the otherside of the country. I had no interest in travelling to vote, and since I was renting, and moving home every few years, I had no interest in moving my voting address.

It's really only since I became a home owner, that I started to care about the local elections. Only now, am I impacted by what a lot of councilors are trying to do

I imagine its still a similar situation for lots of college students, and young workers.

General elections will have a higher turn out.

I thought I read before, that in any democratic country, a turnout of close to 70% is considered amazing. This is not an Ireland only phenomenon

CuriousCucumber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241610#Comment_122241610

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sammy2012

People would rather give out on social media than actually get up and go vote. There are so many here that just can't be bothered to vote and don't seem to realise that elections are won at the ballot box and not on twitter.

Also in my opinion a lot of people in Ireland are fairly comfortable and are happy with FFG. I'm not aligned to any party but I will not vote for a party who wants people who work and are on fairly modest wages to pay more taxes to help those who pay very little.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241610#Comment_122241610

Ah cop yourself on 🙄

Jakey Rolling

An issue with postal and electronic voting is that is open to coercion i.e. you don't know if someone is standing over the voter telling them how to vote. It also allows the possibility of vote selling by taking a photo of how you have voted - in principle this should be less possible at the ballot box.

Imagine if all elections were done entirely with remote voting - there would be endless arguments over ballot tampering, vote selling and coercion.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241602#Comment_122241602

Resources get directed elsewhere. I'd say it was a huge waste of time and money to have someone going door to door.

No doubt there are names on the register that don't need to be there. But it's not something that can be automated. It needs active input from the voter themselves. Automatically adding people, or automatically removing people would cause uproar and cries of conspiracy!

Lewis_Benson

I didnt vote because, who do you vote for?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241610#Comment_122241610

So some people don't vote because there aren't enough options?

Why aren't there enough options, in the minds of these people I wonder?

We still have FF/FG because they are the largest parties in the state still - why - because no other group has managed to get a number of people together in a coherent fashion over a long enough period of time to challenge that - why? Maybe the people who vote get what they vote for.

Perhaps if the silent majority had gotten out and voted these things might change over time but what tends to happen is that FF/FG get a kicking every now and again over specific policies, then end up having to change their policies/prioritise specific areas based on what the electorate has wanted ahead of other parties being able to organise themselves fast enough.

I think that's a good thing with democracy.

There's plenty choice out there, but not necessarily parties/individuals that are organised well enough to really imact the status quo.

People who don't vote for the sake of not voting really need to take a long hard look at themselves.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241378#Comment_122241378

Abstaining from a vote is just as valid a choice as picking a candidate.

It is functionally no different to having compulsory voting with an option on the ballot for "None of the above".

magicbastarder

they should introduce that option, without making voting compulsory.

allow people to actively state they are not voting; as it currently stands they have no way to track that sentiment. if you don't vote, no-one knows why. if you do and spoil your vote, it's not tracked and is essentially untrackable.

thebronze14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241420#Comment_122241420

This is often overlooked. For an election a few years ago I was sent polling cards to two seperate locations for example. Also my wife and my parents never got polling cards this time. They went down anyway and cast their votes. I wonder if some people in the same situation didn't bother

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241823#Comment_122241823

It's not.

Some effort is required to vote - even if it is to spoil it with your own "none of the above" tick box.

Compulsory voting requires some effort.

Not voting doesn't require any effort whatsoever.

Jakey Rolling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241420#Comment_122241420

They should add a unique personal identifier to the registry, ie your PPSN. Then if you register in a new district the registrar can cross-check with other registrars' databases to ensure there's no duplication. Easy. Several members of our family still have votes at "home" as well as their current address, no onus to let the registrar know you've moved or emigrated.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241918#Comment_122241918

If you register online now, they do - but there's millions of existing registrations without.

magicbastarder

simple, there should be a single register.

as mentioned elsewhere, someone reregistered my wife at an address she's not lived at in two decades (her parents house), using an address format the family have never used. a single register would allow instant cross-checks to prevent that happening.

purplefields

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122241777#Comment_122241777

I always spoil my vote.

I have never missed an election, and will always spoil my vote in the absence of a 'none of the above' option.

If you too would like to do that, it is easy to do. Just write 'spoil' or a message of your choice across your ballot paper.

Spoiled votes are counted. Without them, we'll never get actual real change.