Have you been able to board a flight to Dublin without ID?

tohaltuwi

A hot topic now is the fining of airlines who allow people to board flights to Dublin without at least a form of ID. Listening to it again this morning on Morning Ireland. I have never boarded a flight to Dublin without been asked for ID. In fact recently I had to rebook onto an Aer Lingus flight from Glasgow as I had lost my passport and had to forego a booked flight on Ryanair as they require passport even from UK. I showed my Driving License to board the Aer Lingus flight.

Has anybody actually managed to check-in and board a flight to Dublin without any form of identity documentation?

NIMAN

WE all know the answer to this one, but for some reason the media are ignoring the obvious.

It's harsh on the airlines too. People are destroying their ids AFTER they board, yet they are going to get fined for this. How are they going to stop people destroying their id?

EmmetSpiceland

Fine the airlines and the pilots, like they do the hauliers, and the practice would soon die out.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221407#Comment_122221407

and how exactly would that happen?

geographica

could they have hand held passport scanners at the door of the plane on boarding and then the data is forwarded to a representative in advance of arrival who scans you off the plane as you deplane

No docs on getting off the plane then you get held/returned

no “normal” passenger loses their docs while on board the aircraft

or something like that 🤷🏼‍♂️

geographica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221407#Comment_122221407

The pilots? Wha

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221407#Comment_122221407

How could the pilot possibly stop it happening?

Should the cabin crew be fined as well?

yagan

Never been able to board without an ID coming from Britain to Ireland, but there were a few times in Dublin that Garda/immigration checked IDs before people were allowed leave the plane.

tohaltuwi

I’ve never had to show ID before leaving the plane, at any time, in any country, but I’d say this will increasingly happen.

As to fining pilots ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why not fine everybody then, the check-in staff, cabin crew, cleaners who failed to find disposed of passports.

What are the pilots supposed to do? Stand at the door double-checking pax? Abandon duties like pre-flight safety checks, inputting data in Flight Management System, gathering ATC info….?

SteM

So is the issue that people are boarding flights with ID, destroying their ID after landing and then presenting themselves at passport control with no ID or documentation? I'm assuming airlines can't be forced to return these people to their airport of origin? Or is it the case that passport control don't know which flight they arrived on and the passenger refuses to say?

Calahonda52

its this

the issue that people are boarding flights with ID, destroying their ID before landing and then presenting themselves at passport control with no ID or documentation.

Ryanair had 40 on recent flight from Italy

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221648#Comment_122221648

I think the rational for not allowing disembarkation until IDs are verified is that remnants of IDs can be retrieved from the waste containers for those who attempted to become undocumented.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221648#Comment_122221648

So could airlines be asked to take ID on boarding and hand them back during disembarkation? Would that make any sort of difference to the problem?

tabby aspreme

The document's are probably flushed down the toilet, so no chance of retrieving, and I think there was a case of the documents being given back to the people trafficker before passport control.

shimadzu

Surely in this day and age the airlines could provide electronic copies of the passports they scan while boarding to emigration at the other end. If somebody arrives without documentation emigration could review the electronic copies of the passports and put the person back on a plane if they arrived from another European country or send them back to the country of origin if they have been found to be traveling on false documents.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221407#Comment_122221407

😂 😂 😂

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221662#Comment_122221662

I am guessing that many people probably travel on fake passports or someone else's passport. You might have a group of 5 or 6 and a handler who simply collects up the passports they used and exits the airport first with them all in their pocket before the individuals present themselves. The system proposed above will do nothing to prevent that.

Leg End Reject

You can't book a flight without a passport number so I don't understand how this happens.

Surely a system could be put in place to scan passports at the outbound airport, have that linked to the flight, and then another check at the destination airport. No passport = sent back on return flight.

It would be cheaper than processing and accommodating undocumented arrivals.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221672#Comment_122221672

Could you imagine the chaos of that? Every passenger from every flight having to retrieve their ID at Passport control. No doubt it would solve the problem, but aside from teh inconvenience it may be something that would be difficult to - legally - implement, what with passports being the property of governments, etc.

Is there no way for immigration to request the digital file for a person who has 'mislaid' their ID from the departing airport - e.g. retrieve the persons photo and the scan of their passport taken at entry to the the departing airport. Am sure there is some GDPR type obstacle to overcome but it would at least establish the identity and documentation at the time of the passengers departure even if said documentation is not present on arrival.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221708#Comment_122221708

The issue is that there are exceptions to the rule where you must have your own valid passport.

The problem is that one of these exceptions is that you are a valid asylum seeker. Why would a valid asylum seeker be allowed to travel on fake or no documents? Well think about who a valid asylum seeker might be - it could be someone trying to escape some regime that is trying to imprison or kill them. Under such circumstances then the person might have to flee that country in disguise or under a false identity. That is the theory.

So you now have the issue where scammers and chancers can present with no valid ID and claim to be genuine. Until you can ascertain that they are not genuine, you cannot send them back. Because there is a tiny tiny chance that one of them might be genuine. And, ironically, the person at immigration has nothing to prove that they are or aren't who they claim to be.

What needs to be done is that more need to be charged and prosecuted for doing so illegally. There was some movement towards doing that a while back. That should be increased, even if it costs the State money to imprison them etc.

(Before anyone goes off on a rant against this post, please read it properly.)

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221648#Comment_122221648

Can you provide a link about this flight of 40 with no id? Can't find anything online anywhere. Really doubt these stories.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221431#Comment_122221431

Airlines are already fined when people arrive at their destination without appropriate documents. An exception is made for asylum seekers / refugees. The only thing required is to lift that exception.

delboythedub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221441#Comment_122221441

pilot could use his intercom to advise All passengers 30 minuted before landing that Cabin crew will be walking down the isle and visually check that all passengers have a passport in their hands

erlichbachman

Its voting time folks, appeasing for votes, this is the fundamental flaw a democratic election process, so round and round we continue to go.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221871#Comment_122221871

too late- I threw it down the toilet towards the start of the flight - probably need to introduce a photo system when boarding with the resultant photos sent to the receiving country - but such a process won’t be introduced over night - but if airlines can in the meantime prove they had sight of the passport on boarding then they should avoid the fine - but really we’re here because of the mess the government has made of housing in this country after years of neglect - it’s not the airlines fault - the government are just trying to outsource the problem and responsibility

cgcsb

The result will be airlines cancelling flights from 'trouble spots'.

Unless they collect passports from passengers coming from trouble spots and redistribute them in the airport in Ireland at the immigration desk. They could streamline this process by only collecting passports of trouble countries, e.g. an Italian national on a flight from Italy would proceed as normal, an Afgahn national on a flight from Italy would have to hand over the passport and retrieve it immigration.

building a proper prison as was planned in the celtic tiger era would help, not just for detaining people entering the state illegally but dealing with out domestic crime issue.

delboythedub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221902#Comment_122221902

Then passenger does not get off the plane or held in custody and returned to original airport. Could be worth while getting Bruce to check every passengers luggage etc. to try and locate the missing passport

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221902#Comment_122221902

Then you get flung out of the plane. 😈

yagan

I guess in the long term with the new EU travel authorisation happening soon airlines would be able to scan IDs at boarding, those with non-EU passports would have to have their pre clearance so at least the pressure would be off the airlines and back on the member states to make pan bloc ID checks easy.

alias no.9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221902#Comment_122221902

No need to go to such extremes, previous articles in the broadsheets mentioned that there are no searches of a person's clothing or bags when presenting as undocumented, you can happily travel with your own passport and keep it safely in your pocket while you present as undocumented.

Strumms

you can get iris recognition scanners now that are handheld. Only slightly bigger then a mobile phone.

An iris is like a fingerprint, no two in the world are identical.

Unlike a fingerprint you can’t manipulate or change your iris. By burning or scraping… well you can but you’ll blind yourself…

Link passports to iris scan, anything doesn’t match up, turn them around and bye bye. 👋👉🏻

Always have had relevant docs myself so never an issue.

tohaltuwi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221672#Comment_122221672

That would actually make sense. Put the passports in a secure bag in the cockpit.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221726#Comment_122221726

Everyone on the thread has said documentation is destroyed on the plane, I just wondered what would happen if people were denied access to their documentation on the plane. I didn't say get them back at passport control, I said when they disembarked the airplane which wouldn't be quite as chaotic.

Ryanair could even charge an upgrade where you pay to get your passport back first if they wanted, MOL would love it. :)

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222767#Comment_122222767

Wouldn't people just deny it's their passport. And then accuse the airline of losing their passport?

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222791#Comment_122222791

Maybe but passports have photographs on them, how can someone deny it's their passport?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222943#Comment_122222943

"That's not me. Are you saying all us foreigners look the same to you?"

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223069#Comment_122223069

Anyone disputing a passport can be brought for interview or just sent back on the next flight.

There's no need to entertain this nonsense, this encourages people to play the system.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223069#Comment_122223069

"What seat are you assigned to?"

"Seat 7J"

"This is the passport that was handed up from seat 7J, it must be yours. If not you can discuss it with the immigration officials that are on the way to pick you up".

It's nothing that can't be accounted for.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222767#Comment_122222767

I get where you are coming from. I think there was evidence of documentation going missing after the plane disembarked, but before passport control (i.e. in the airport toilets / bins). This would certainly become the case if you got your documentation back on landing, but still had to make your way to the border control.

Hence I think ultimately for your idea to achieve its outcome, it would have to be collect your documentation at the same place it will be checked (i.e. border / passport control).

Hopefully we would see that it does not make sense, and find another solution. It can never be an advantage to you to lose your documentation.

beachhead

Take all passports on boarding.No pp then bye bye.Also,any non EU pps pay 4 times the price or more.

bucketybuck

You lot are nuts if you think people are just going to give their passports to random airline staff and trust that they will get them back later. Can you not see the implications of that?

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223931#Comment_122223931

Maybe the staff are ex cons or will parachute mid flight.

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223931#Comment_122223931

No way I'm handing my passport over to airline staff for an entire flight. How much vetting is done with these staff? Airlines are losing stuff all the time. Not a chance.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223931#Comment_122223931

This "solution" also completely misses the point that there's ample opportunity for people to destroy their documents between getting off the plane and arriving at immigration/passport control.

tohaltuwi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223956#Comment_122223956

You often have to hand them over to hotel staff overnight, especially on organised tours.

tohaltuwi

the passports would have to be stored in a secure container in the cockpit with the pilots who are usually vetted individuals.

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226999#Comment_122226999

Wouldn't do that either. I've worked in hotels for years. Nobody there is vetted either and there's plenty of sketchy people there too especially management who I assume would have access to the safe. Only 2 years ago a manager in a place I worked emptied the safe and tried to leg it to the airport. Maybe I'm odd.

faceman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223887#Comment_122223887

Not a hope am I, as an Irish and EU citizen giving any private company my passport to hold on to. This is a **** terrible idea.

Ryanair already have this sussed. Mandatory manual visa check of non EU citizens on check in and all travellers must have a passport to board. Best of luck to the Irish government fining Ryanair, their arse is well covered.

Forget airlines. It's immigrations job to vet travellers. If someone arrives on a Ryanair flight with no documentation, they clearly they destroyed their paperwork. Ryanair have a record of every traveller. Other airlines need to do the same with their procedures.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221407#Comment_122221407

Try and understand the topic and the differences….

NIMAN

People seem to be all for complicated and convoluted ideas around passports, that staff around airports and on planes simply wouldn't have the time to do.

Aren't most planes turned around in 30min? Yet we want all passports to be checked, collected, stored, brought out at the end of the flight and individually handed out to 170 people. Ain't going to happen.

There's an easier way. Every system is automated these days, and with AI round the corner , passport control and airport boarding etc should be so automated. Every person who boards a plane should have their passport scanned. It should be stored forever against that flight, it should then be accessible at the destination immigration control. They should have the names and photos of Every single person on the flight that's just arrived. To allow someone to destroy a passport then have no clue who they are when they disembark simply isn't good enough in this day and age of data collection. It shouldn't be so easy to become anonymous.

Again if there's a will, there definitely is a way.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222633#Comment_122222633

It would make no difference since they could destroy their passport at any time and present themselves for asylum afterwards. This sounds very much like a lot of click bait nonsense from the media than an actual serious problem.