Donald Trump the Megathread part II - threadbans and mod warnings in OP

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186746#Comment_122186746

It's a very good question.

What you say seems true, that it demonstrates the abject failure of the incumbent administration. The electorate largely feel that the administration is not taking them in the right direction, long-term.

But even if Trump is all of those things, it's actually irrelevant to how he governs — that's to say, his long-term policy agenda. For instance, if the country feel that migration needs to be controlled and Trump is the man to deliver on that — however extreme some consider his policy platform — then they will vote for that policy.

Trump is simply the figurehead for the policy they want, and his own personal failings are irrelevant if the country gets what they want.

In 25-years looking back, the US can say that migration was finally managed the way the population want it managed (as well as his other policies). They won't start talking about these trials.

Winston Churchill is alleged to have been a horrible racist, but he was nonetheless the right person to lead the way in WWII. Again, the policy trumps — for want of a better word — any personal moral failings of the country's leader. Imagine the opposite; that a weak leader who was morally perfect led WWII and lost it?

The same applies to Trump and his policy agenda. People are willing to judge Trump on his political policies in a political election, and not let moral questions get in the way of that much more important goal.

looksee

The fact that a good proportion - up to 50% apparently, though I doubt it will prove to be that - of the American people support Trump is a reflection of the horrible state of the Republican voters of America. It is caused by poor education, lack of critical thinking, worship of the flag, superficial religion, utter selfishness and bone deep stupidity.

Trump is sufficiently willing to lie about absolutely anything and everything to convince his followers about what they want to hear. It is beyond comprehension to most normal people who would not understand the attraction of a cult, but something about his warped and corrupt personality appeals to his followers. In enabling the cult of Trump, the country is in danger of reaping what it has sown.

Stanley 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180852#Comment_122180852

E. Jean Carroll has stated she would like to use his money to get back at him.

Financing this movie to be distributed and keeping off Trump's lawyers should bring her some satisfaction.

Donald will be flaking with rage.

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

You have been fact checked so many, many times and yet you still regurgitate the same abject lies.

Why is that?

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186758#Comment_122186758

Something that's puzzled me in all of this is the RNC's (and members thereof) apparent absolute belief in, and devotion to, Trump's immortality. Almost by definition, a Republican-style party (like the Tories in GB) is filled with selfish, backstabbing narcissists who will say or do anything to rise to power, and yet the whole rancid lot of them have rowed in behind the One True Leader because … well, because "Biden" it seems, and nothing else. None of them seem to be positioning themselves to be the Obvious Choice when - not if - Trump keels over and doesn't rise again on the the third day.

For one brief moment, I thought Nikki Haley might have stood up to Trump and provided the non-Trumpian Republicans with a valid alternative candidate. She could have put herself in a really good position, especially with women voters - like a few months ago when he was being snarky about her "very nice dress". If only she'd fired back "are you man enough to wear a dress, Donald?" Instead, here we are with her saying she'll vote for Trump, and him telling us that he's not afraid to wear trousers …

While I would enjoy seeing Trump convicted and jailed for one (or more) of his crimes, I think the more dramatic upset to the Presidential race would be if he upped and died some time between now and September, leaving the GOP without any clear successor.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

But how does that square with Trumps abject failure to deliver on any of the things he promised the last time out?

He has never "delivered" in his entire life. He delivers a great Sales pitch and then fails miserably to deliver on it.

As long as he lines his own pockets he's happy.

He did nothing to"fix" immigration in his 4 years in office, he didn't fix healthcare, he didn't fix Infrastructure, he didn't bring back manufacturing jobs. He didn't do a single thing he said he would do.

All he did was give himself and his cronies a hefty tax cut.

In your example, Churchill was indeed a horrible prick but he was what was needed to make the hard decisions during a world war. He was focused and determined and did exactly what he said he would do.

Trump is not very bright but he is very lazy and he will do absolutely nothing to help anyone other than himself.

In power he would make nothing better but would allow everything to become worse.

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187141#Comment_122187141

What matters is what US voters believe.

US voters have consistently polled that they feel economically better off under the previous administration as opposed to the incumbent.

That's what they will act upon, not on trial after trial after trial.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187327#Comment_122187327

Pretty much this unfortunately.

We may not like it, but it does seem like people have warmed to Trumps time in office while Biden in contrast is going nowhere approval wise.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/15/politics/trump-presidency-memories-biden-analysis/index.html

During Donald Trump’s four years in the White House, he was famously the only president whose job approval rating never reached 50% in Gallup Organization polls since the firm began systematically tracking that measure in the 1940s.

But now more positive retrospective assessments of Trump’s record in office are setting off warning flares for Democrats — especially as President Joe Biden’s own approval ratings remain stuck at historically low levels. In a CNN poll from April, 55% of Americans said they considered Trump’s presidency a success — a big jump from the 41% who viewed his presidency so positively when he left office in January 2021, according to a CNN survey from the time.

If Biden is to win a second term, “the fact that Trump is getting this level of credit cannot stand,” said Democratic pollster Jay Campbell, who conducts surveys on the economy with a Republican partner for CNBC.

It’s not unusual for approval ratings of presidents to rise out of office. The difference is that none of Trump’s defeated predecessors sought to return to the White House four years later. The public’s shifting ratings of those former presidents was of interest mostly to historians; this year, these reassessments will help decide control of the White House.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

Putting a rape, an insurrection and lots of fraud to the side is a reflection on the individuals who are okay with that. The insurrection alone would put most countries off letting him back in office and it's very much relevant to the role. Then things like rape, that's more going in the direction of saying "I know Harvey Weinstein engaged in sexual violence but he's still good president material, look at his success with Miramax".

And the reality is Trump achieved very little in office. And this is what works against him, most people haven't forgotten how he handled the pandemic. They know how he made the role about himself. So I find it incredibly unlikely that he's gone gain voters that he didn't have in 2016.

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187327#Comment_122187327

How on earth do you square

"In 25-years looking back, the US can say that migration was finally managed the way the population want it managed (as well as his other policies)"

To

"What matters is what US voters believe"

As I am sure you agree he governed for 4 years and didnt achieve almost anything so what makes you think he will deliver this time, much less give you the ability to state it as fact that it will happen.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188171#Comment_122188171

The reality is, an awful lot of people are finding day to day life completely unaffordable and are having to make significant cutbacks. Rightly or wrongly, people tend to blame the current president for stuff like that.

Gaslighting voters by insisting the economy is actually great and they're delusional isn't helping

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188171#Comment_122188171

And the reality is Trump achieved very little in office

That is subject to bias and personal interpretation. Many Americans believe his presidency was a success.

As the above poster quoted:

In a CNN poll from April, 55% of Americans said they considered Trump’s presidency a success.

So it's definitely likely that he will "gain voters that he didn't have in 2016".

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188191#Comment_122188191

You ignored my question here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180643#Comment_122180643

Care to address it?

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188243#Comment_122188243

Polls are more often than not a reliable indicator.

When 55% of Americans say that they believe Trump's presidency was a success, we're not talking a small number here — even if the poll were slightly inaccurate. If you were to believe the tone of this thread, you'd believe that 10% would conclude his presidency was a success.

So whether the actual number is 49% or 58%; we can at the very least conclude that a large percentage, around or more than half, believe his presidency was a success.

It's also consistent with more than 90% of the latest polls that put Trump ahead:

Is there a possibility these polls are wrong?

For sure, there always is. But given Trump was supposed to lose in 2016 based on polls when he was in fact way ahead of Clinton; the fact that Trump is ahead at this stage should worry Democrats.

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188180#Comment_122188180

Moreover, he specifically, tanked an immigration bill which had bi-partisan support.

Therefore, he made the issue *worse*.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188256#Comment_122188256

You took one sample, the 2016 election, and based your hypothesis off that. What about the 2018 mid terms (where trump lost the house), the 2020 election (where Trump lost again), the 2022 midterms (where the Republicans underperformed when predicted to wipe the house), and the primaries for the Republican nomination

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188291#Comment_122188291

All current data suggests the polling is consistent with one another i.e. people claiming that Trump's presidency was a success versus his consistent poll ratings today.

As there is no inconsistency, I see no reason to cast doubt on the polls. With all polling there is the possibility that it may be inaccurate, but I'm willing to hedge my bets and assume that the polls are reasonably accurate indicators.

Conversely, if the polls showed a low approval rate with consistently low presidential polling, then I don't believe we would see anywhere near the same level of scepticism. If anything, the polls would be taken as golden and used to batter Trump.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188303#Comment_122188303

Im not talking about approval rating. I'm talking about predicted results versus actual results, which again you've ignored

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188303#Comment_122188303

You agree with the polls, because they align with your beliefs.

As has been stated. Polls were wrong when it came to Brexit, then they were wrong in '16, '18, '20 '22. (I still have a chuckle at the Red Wave)

Why would you think they're going to be right this time? It's a lot of faith to put in a system that has shown itself to be very flawed.

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188515#Comment_122188515

You disagree with the polls, because they misalign with your beliefs.

And yes, the polls could be wrong.

It's entirely possible that support for Trump is even higher than those polls already suggest.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188537#Comment_122188537

This is a classic case of you ignoring the content of the post. Polling has huge accuracy issues in recent years hence pointing to expected GOP landslides which never actually happened or brexit or the 2016 election.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188537#Comment_122188537

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188191#Comment_122188191

How about the historians who have rated him the worst president in history in terms of achievements?

Also, could you answer with yes or no whether you believe Tiny raped E Jean Carroll? Your last answer was (deliberately?) vague to the point of being incomprehensible. A word salad or no answer will be treated as a no.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/20/presidents-ranking-trump-biden-list

TheIrishGrover

Ah, why bother. Not getting dragged in again :D

Edit: Deleted my comment

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189137#Comment_122189137

True colours showing as per usual. Saying you're agnostic and then being hugely judgemental of the victim. Fyi, she first spoke of it back in the early 2000s but didn't name him.

LambshankRedemption

A jury of 12 adults found the defendant guilty, but thats not enough for concerned_tenant. There must be an ulterior motive. A one armed man perhaps?

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189137#Comment_122189137

So I'll take that as a no. To me, who believes that a 9 person jury who heard the evidence and came back with a guilty verdict IN UNDER 3 HOURS almost certainly (i mean like 99.99% certain) got it right, that makes you delusional. But that's me accepting you at your word. There's also the possibility that you think historical rapes should be left in the past, or that it was just boys being boys or maybe just that she was asking for it going into the dressing room with him. Only you know. I'll accept your answer that you are just part of the cult.

Billy Mays

I 100% definitely remember Eskimo Tenant stating under his last username, and I quote, "I believe E Jean Carroll".

Strange that he's now "agnostic to the claim"

Quin_Dub

If memory serves we were told previously that Trump deserved the "benefit of the doubt" because juries sometimes get it wrong so a conclusive guilty verdict didn't actually mean that he was absolutely positively definitely guilty so we should just give him a pass because we just can't be certain.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189282#Comment_122189282

Guaranteed if Biden or a senior Democrat found guilty our resident 'centrists' would never deploy such an excuse ... proof it is a bad faith argument.