Pit v bales

morphy87

I usually do pit but with the way the weather is I’m considering bales, has anyone swapped over to bales and if so are you happy or has anyone gone bales to pit are you happy with your decision?

Water John

A lot depends on the size of operation. Yes, small operation, moved to bales years ago, suits me. Generally, bales can be very good quality. I tend to go for a dry bale, well wilted. I see one of the regular contributors to the Farming Independent has switched totally to bales. Others find bales a lot of work.

CramCycle

Never used a pit but would be a small operation by modern standards. Never really found it a big job but again, small operation. My father can take care of bales on his own even in old age. Never gave it any thought. What are the perceived downsides?

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058353063/pit-v-bales

It will work out a bit more expensive I find as the plastic is the killer. Unless you do some of the work yourself ie. Mow or tedder or draw. I rather spending a few hours covering the pit than a day drawing bales, but that's me.

I have outside pieces so to get it drawn home is a nice bonus with the pit. Plus the self-propelled harvester chops up the docks.

The bales allows more flexibility as you can bale any field as soon as its fit. To be honest you just have to try for a year and see which you prefer

Count Mondego

Only cut around 30 acres but always pit, might have 30-40 bales second cut or after grass. With put, in three hours it's all drawn in, a few hours covering with plastic and tyres and you're done. I've been alot longer bringing in 3 AC of bales. I find bales are never chopped, even though I pay for it. Feeding out from the pit is a joy compared to the pain in the hole that is taking off wrap and net from each bale. Forking out silage in the shed is a doddle with precision chopped silage compared to an uncropped bale, it would pull the shoulders out of you at times. I also find that you could throw a mountain of bale silage in front of cattle and it will be gone in two hours, whereas a few forks of pit silage will be there in the evening.

It's way cheaper too, bales would add 50% onto the cost, and you have to bring all the cu^ts in too.

Water John

There is a lot said for mowing your own. You can mow at the correct time, with the sugar high and a 24/48 dry window. This could be either bales or pit, but more likely for bales. It also depends on the time you have available. You can be very flexible, picking off paddocks and match into the grass growth curve of each year.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179614#Comment_122179614

what’s the best/optimum time of the day to mow if you were doing it yourself?

Donald Trump

We have done all bales here for the past 20+ years. Have an old pit, although it wouldn't be nearly big enough now. We always keep saying we have to get back to using the pit for cost reasons. Only reason we go with bales is we have all the gear to do it ourselves. We'd be doing 1600-2000 per year. Generally in the middle of that range. At the higher end of the range last year due to the longer winter and probably the same again this year.

Pit would usually be more economical. Although for a lighter cut the bales might work out as well. Pit is better as a buffer if you have the space.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179578#Comment_122179578

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179573#Comment_122179573

would you have much waste with the pit? I had some last year, I usually use cling film and a hermitix cover but I didn’t use the hermitix cover last year and I had waste

Do ye use a time grab or shear grab?

The only reason I’m considering bales this year is because of ground conditions, I make 50 to 60 bale’s every year, there great no waste but expensive

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179722#Comment_122179722

When the sun has been shining on it for bit. So not too early in the day and not too late.

Anto_Meath

I started doing all bales about 3 years ago, its nearly more haylage I ve made & what I find good is on Saturday I ll but in 3 bales at each pen and then usually on Tuesday I ll have to push it in with the loader and then on Thursdays but in a bale at each pen again. I wasn't getting pit silage to stay that fresh for that long before, after 2 /3 days they would go off it looking for fresh stuff but that doesn’t seem to happen with the bale silage.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179858#Comment_122179858

that’s another benefit it cuts down on the work especially when you’re working

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179829#Comment_122179829

I use a bit of salt, (the 20kg bags) under the plastic, the cows fight for the top grab of silage. I just use black plastic, but I usually throw any old covering on top, so there could be 4 layers in some parts. I seal it well and it usually works out perfect. Of course in the spring when I'm not taking it continuously it will heat a bit.

Sher can't you try bales if you like and see, or go half and half

mr.stonewall

I find that there is a critical mass of stock numbers for the change. Do both put and bales here. But prefer out for ease of feeding out and cheaper for the main bulk of fodder.

I always delighted to see the back broken out of feeding bales and the pit opened. When you are part time and feeding out 7-10 bales you would be sick of them

Its hard to beat pit on cost and having you fodder in the yard. Plastic is a fraction of the cost, even a very small cost if you manage you covers, you are only purchasing and disposing of a single sheet

I see bales as a necessary evil for the shoulders of housing and managing grass when growth rates are high.

Cavanjack

A few bales are alright for the autumn and spring here but after that no way. Throw 90 acres into a pit every year. The thoughts of feeding that in bales is enough to put me off. They do suit some men though so not completely knocking them.

Dunedin

Part time here. 350-400 bales a year. changed to bales ten years ago. Wouldn’t go back.

Re cost. €14 to mow and bale. €4 plastic and €2 to ted and €1 to draw in so circa €21 a bale at 8 bales to acre is €168 an acre. Would pit be €140 an acre??? And sheet of plastic and feed 6-7 lads with the dinner (my baler lad never wants to come in for dinner!!)

I mow, ted and draw in myself but the cost above is contractor only.

50HX

Formerly pit, drop on numbers so now bales

Mow,Ted & draw(mostly) myself.

Find them no bother as I can take out fields at the correct stage & as long as you are not doing 300 hundred at a time it's grand.

Wouldn't agree with precision silage lasting longer than bales

Better wilt & opportunity to make haulage for me

funkey_monkey

Do many here have there own baler/wrapper? The older balers would now be at the price where they would make sense for someone mechanically minded to look after them doing a few hundred.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180000#Comment_122180000

what’s the salt you use? Would it be similar to silasave?

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180194#Comment_122180194

I bale my own with a 1995 Claas 46. It's a simple baler with no chopper, bought around 2000. Not the quickest machine in the world but I cut fields/paddocks when they suit me. Replaced 1 tyre, 2 rollers, 2 chains and plenty of bearings and tines over the years. Bought a 1997 wrapper at the same time, hasn't needed much except a few welds, a set of belts and joystick cables.

Wouldn't mind upgrading but would probably need a bigger tractor for most more modern balers.

tripperman

Yeah have my own baler, but not the most mechanical gifted myself so bring it to my local dealership for repairs or service, but see others doing the repairs themselves no problem,

Have the baler from 2008, do about 1700 bales a year, few breakdowns nothing major, saves depending on a contractor and getting let down in mixed weather which we used to get often before buying our own,

Would be 25 years from we done pit silage, but thinking of doing first cut in pit again as help to draw in bales is hard got and the time it takes to get it done aswell is a factor with other jobs to get done around the farm been held up for two weeks.

davidk1394

Did all bales up to last year, then it was the first time there was a pit of silage in the place since 1998. Still baled around 600 bales for myself. We have all our own equipment, so I mowed and raked and helped haul it in.

Water John

Mow in the afternoon if possible, great start. If I was a larger operator I think I would be pitting the main crop and baling the rest.

K.G.

I don't like bales from a labour plastic and general messing with them but there's no doubt they also have advantages of flexibility.my view the making and braking of bales is your baler.if bales are not packed the bale count goes bananas and makes it costly .on the other hand precision chop outfits have become cumbersome and pit silage tends to dictate how the farm is run.pit silage isn't cheap either but if you mow and move yourself bales are not that much more expensive.the 2 bale high thing means it's hard to have all the bales in or near the yard with many now leaving some near the fields and moving during the winter

Freejin

Nobody has mentioned the disadvantage of bales in relation to trying to agitate and spread slurry, for that reason alone I'll be staying with pit

50HX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183410#Comment_122183410

Never an issue agitating feeding bales v pit

Barrier design & enough water would be the 2 factor I would imagine

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183618#Comment_122183618

Yes, barrier design has made a big difference for me. It needs to be diagonal bars to stop animals pulling their heads back in.

GrasstoMilk

gone back to all bales this year

Wasn’t the intention at the start of the year but none of it is ready together, 20 acres at a time isn’t a big ordeal and the draw isn’t far. Have our own mower, baler, Tedder and stackers. Just need to get someone to rake Won’t have the contractor bill for pitting 120 acres coming at me in either which will be a nice bonus

I don’t mind bales, you’d open a fleece of bales in 30 minutes with a bale shear, never had any bother with slurry either. A lot of that is making sure no netting or plastic gets into the slats

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183740#Comment_122183740

Just for being nosey. When you are at the bales, mowing, baling, tedder and stacking. Do you have help, or by yourself

https://www.donedeal.ie/balers-for-sale/new-holland-baler/36955970

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183847#Comment_122183847

if I can get help I’ll take it, usually be the BIL. Or else a milker /wife milks and we stay going at the bales

Mostly it’s just me and dad. I’ll bale till milking time and dad will draw and stack. He’ll bale aswell but if anything goes wrong with the fusion he mightn’t be able to sort it on his own, depending on what’s gone wrong

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183740#Comment_122183740

Wagon wasnt able to travel 2 and a half acres of ground last night to wet , had to get it baled this morning, 30 of the bastards and grass was dry, instead of 130 euro of a bill for that bit of ground, have 420 euro of a bill now and that dosent include the two hours lost drawing and stacking them….

Id at least try and get 50 acres into a pit for your own sanity

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183941#Comment_122183941

pit silage for €50 an acre???

funkey_monkey

What is a round bale like nutritionally in comparison to pit silage, all things being equal? Would it be similar stuff, or is one superior to the other if you analysed them?

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184071#Comment_122184071

No difference at all in the nutritional value, that entirely depends on the sward being cut. Went to pit from bales a few years ago, would not go back di]ue to labour in winter

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183941#Comment_122183941

too late, 200 bales stacked in the pit.

I might regret it but I have the machines, if I don’t use them my silage is actually costing me more again than just paying for the contractor

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183987#Comment_122183987

Thats for raking and wagon, mow and put up ourselves, wagon charged by the load not the acre, 140 acres in the pit here so far, and 60 wagon loads brought in, its working out to be great value this year, main first cut was tedded out too so added a bit of extra cost but cut down on load count

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183987#Comment_122183987

he is special, 2.5×170=425 I would pay for self propelled last year. If I asked my contractor can I pay by the trailer load, he might not be pleased

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184162#Comment_122184162

Once you can get it in dry and keep bale count down will be half the battle, growth rates are crazy at the minute, youll end up with 12-15 bales an acre if you have to go at wet grass/broken weather scenario

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184287#Comment_122184287

Roughly how hours was he at it.we re cutting lighter stuff this year but it still takes up to 40 minutes a load but we are drawing a mile and we don't push the gear hard

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184287#Comment_122184287

I’ve the full bank of knives up in the baler aswell, even the very outside ones. You get a very well chopped bale when they’re all in and a bit more in the bale too

Most contractors I know inc my BIL only have a half set in

Dunedin

the couple of bigger things with bales is:

More weather dependent than pit. With bales, you nearly need 3 good dry days- one the day before you mow, the day you mow and the day you bale. Could get away with one good day for pit with mowing and picking on the one day. Wet bales are a disaster never mind extra cost.

Second is number of bales per acre. I hear lads talking about up to 15 bales per acre. Either they’re full of water or not packed or a bit of both. Most I ever had was 8-10 per acre and that’s first cut silage. Cut dry, wilt well and pack them well.

Who2

I moved over to all bales a few years ago and can’t see myself going back. Main reason being it’s very hard to close up a big enough area in one go to make a decent pit for the winter. I stagger the cuts to suit growth and stack accordingly as I need them. My best bales will usually be the last ones I need to coincide with the cows calving. I can batch the older rougher grass for earlier and lately I’ve tried getting hay for pre calving. I know it suits bigger operations but it just works well for me here.

It’s extremely handy to count out what you need, in say how many bales per day and then adjust accordingly. If your organised with the plastic and gather and store as you use it’s not a big hassle.

I also tended to get a bit of waste no matter how hard I tried and if I didn’t keep clearing the pit face constantly I’d waste too much.

Danny healy ray

is there many lads on bales only and able to pump the slurry with umbilical pipes be interesting to know

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185378#Comment_122185378

I am and no bother. But put in the slanted bars in the barriers.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185378#Comment_122185378

JuJusT dont leave to bale up aganist the feed barrier and they wont pull any in

visatorro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184549#Comment_122184549

just out of interest did you ever run half set and was there a difference in power/diesel usage ?

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189128#Comment_122189128

wouldn’t have had them all in it last year because I thought the bale would fall asunder going onto the wrapper but no issue

yeah probably is more diesel used, the tractor would fairly die down packing the last of the bale but she’s a 4 cyl, wouldn’t have the same tourqe as a 6 cyl

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184290#Comment_122184290

Mowed and put-up by ourselves, 120 acres of first cut the bill is 53.50 a acre incl vat for raking/wagon/80 acres tedded, used 600 litres of diseal total mowing/putting up….

Id rather not have to be at the above but cutting a cheque for 50k plus a year to a contractor for silage isnt something i can afford

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189832#Comment_122189832

It's great if you can do it. I was just saying that you can't compare the cost of bales to your system.

minerleague

All bales here - spread little fertilizer but pit was always so much /acre irrespective of crop or distance so worked out better in bales. Just wondering surely the technology exists in modern harvesters to measure the tonnage of crops and charge accordingly rather than a flat rate? would be open to doing pit again although yard is small now for modern gear

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190652#Comment_122190652

The new John Deeres have it for sure, harvest lab I think it's called..if you look at some of the grass en videos it's common in new Zealand I believe.