Mark Selby - The Greatest Ever?

The Golden Miller

Who would people rate as a better player between Mark Selby and someone like John Higgins for example? We used to hear that John was the best match player in the world, often called granite. Could grind you down and had ice in his veins.

But do people think Selby has surpassed him as the number one match player, or would Higgins in his prime still be rated higher. They each have 4 world titles, but Higgins got into a habit of losing many in recent years, which has taken away from his aura a bit.

That still has little bearing on how he was in his prime. But I think Selby has surpassed him overall. I'd nearly go as far to say, at his best, Selby is the best player ever

Maybe not the most talented, but overall the best. I think he beats everyone more than they beat him, if all are at their prime, including Hendry and O'Sullivan.

The only one maybe beating him is Williams in his prime, his unorthodox style, pulling off mercurial shots no one else sees, to keep getting in first. But it's a low percentage game, and if he's not pulling it off Selby beats him.

I don't like Selby, and he has personal issues, in reality it has held him back winning more world titles in recent years. But when he's in the zone, he's probably the greatest there's ever been, his all round game and mentality, formidable and unplayable.

We talk about O'Sullivan, this guy beats him more often than not when they're both on it imo, particularly when the pressure is applied. I don't think he gets the recognition he deserves because people don't like him and find it hard to accept this. But I think it's the truth!

Flaneur OBrien

Mark Selby Vs O'Sullivan.

Played 34

Won 12

Drawn 1

Lost 21.

https://cuetracker.net/head-to-head/mark-selby/ronnie-osullivan

The defence rests!

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172230#Comment_122172230

Didn't think that was the hth, but I'd still have Selby doing him in major games when it matters. A fluke won O'Sullivan their last world championship game, he was out of ideas

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172238#Comment_122172238

Each to their own, but if I had to pick a player to play for me, in a bizarre life or death situation, I'd always go Ronnie.

The Golden Miller

Out of interest, would O'Sullivan have a losing hth against anyone I wonder, would you know off the top of your head?

I'd assume he has a winning hth against Hendry, particularly in games in later years, but I wonder what their hth was before Hendrys form fell off a cliff?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172252#Comment_122172252

Thats a very good question. Ken Doherty?

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172256#Comment_122172256

Definitely if you include all the games Doherty beat him as a teenager, when his father paid him to come around to play Ronnie ha

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058352824/mark-selby-the-greatest-ever

I saw Higgins play in the 90s. He’s been doing it longer than Selby. Better player in his prime than Shelby’s prime.
Ronnie way better than both of them. Obviously. On all aspects of the game. Light years ahead

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172256#Comment_122172256

Quoting myself, but no.

Played 28

Won 9

Lost 19

I remembered a good period where Doherty seemed to be beating him regularly.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172266#Comment_122172266

Obviously O'Sullivan is the better player in terms of playing the game, the best ever. But mentality and ability to play under pressure, also makes up the player you are.

I don't think O'Sullivan did anything close to what Hendry did under pressure in his prime for example. Apply the pressure on Hendry, corner him, and a different player came out. A clinical machine.

O'Sullivan a great front runner, he's that natural, but when players lived with him and turned up the heat, you could get at him. Not at Hendry, or indeed, Selby. That's where they excelled

Flaneur OBrien

Thanks @The Golden Miller for starting this.

https://cuetracker.net/players/ronnie-osullivan/opponents/all-time Amazing stats here. He's never had a losing hth against anyone. Higgins was the closest, with Ronnie winning 41 out of 79 games.

What an incredible talent. Snookers Jimi Hendrix.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172282#Comment_122172282

Hendry must of been close before his form deteriorated. I'd say later years skew it though

The Golden Miller

From what I can work out, Hendry O'Sullivans hth, was 20-19 in O'Sullivans favour by the end of 2003.

Finished 30-21 thereafter when Hendry regressed

Spiderpig92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172252#Comment_122172252

Think Elliot Slessor holds a 2-1 advantage in ranking events for what it is worth! Not overly relevant over 3 games but could class him as Ronnie's Mark Johnson Allen!

Spiderpig92

Think it is hard to make a case for Selby to be greatest ever but certainly one that seems to be underrated when it comes to making these lists. I'd have him at the lower end of the Top 5 but give him the edge over Higgins given he's won the same amount of majors over a shorter time frame - to me anyway they are the yardstick by which you should be judged regardless of what Judd may say! I feel as if he has held the World Number 1 considerably longer than Higgins.

The H2H with Ronnie on the whole isn't exactly favorable but the fact that Selby is the only man to beat him in World, UK & Masters finals should count for something.

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172252#Comment_122172252

Ursenbacher. Although, they've only played 4 times with Ursenbacher winning 3.

JBarnes1986

At the recent Worlds,a reporter asked some of the players who they have as a Top 5.As a man who has played them all in their prime Mark Williams went with 1.O'Sullivan 2.John Higgins 3.Hendry 4.Selby 5.Davis.
I think he knows better then anyone.

He didn't put himself in there,I'd have him at 5th( or even 4th) replacing Davis personally.

mdwexford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205313#Comment_122205313

I think that is the top 5 of all time alright.

Id go

Hendry, Ronnie, Davis, Selby, Higgins

If Selby gets his head together he has more Worlds in him though and can push himself further up the list, I don’t think Ronnie will win another.

loyatemu

Ronnie's definitely capable of winning another WC, the competition at the top has really evened out and there's no other dominant player, as evidenced by the last 2 winners. Trump is good enough to dominate but just doesn't seem to be able to perform consistently at the Crucible.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205313#Comment_122205313

Didn't actually see later responces this thread. I seen Williams say that, and I couldn't help but believe he was being facetious, to patronise Ronnie. Williams even in his prime, at best, had a level hth with Ronnie, with Ronnie beating him far more than not before or since. But Williams never cared, he's not that driven, Ronnie would raise his game for Williams, Williams wouldn't care.

Ronnie to this day, talks about and holds Williams in a higher esteem, well when he was a "fallen giant", than anyone else. He knew Williams could do what no one else could (even Hendry), and it threatened Ronnie. Williams is the one player, that when both Ronnie and Mark were at their best, Ronnie may not be able to beat him. You couldn't say that about any other player.

Even Higgins against Williams in the last world final, Higgins was playing no miss snooker. But how do you mount a comeback against a guy, who keeps getting in first, because he keeps potting long reds no one else who ever lived could? Mark and Ronnie both know this, Mark therefore patronises the fcuk out of Ronnie, constantly telling him he's "the best" when asked by people.

Ronnie knows full well, there's no guarantee he can beat Williams at his best. They'll beat each other I'm sure, but Ronnie knows there's certain unorthodox "impossible" shots Williams can pull off regularly, that even he can't. Marks taking the p!ss just so you know!

gormdubhgorm

Selby is a good player, has his own style and manner of playing. But seems to have 'lost it" mentality. It must be hard work playing snooker in that style. Making each shot "an event"

Ebdon manufactured himself into that type of player but he only managed one world title doing that. Which makes Selby's achievements more impressive.

To me Selby is the type of player who can be "got at" yeah he can grind out matches at his best. But once an opponent rattles him and gets in his head it is game over. Like what O'Sullivan did to him in THAT WC match. Selby was completely rattled by O'Sullivan, and looked mentally beaten to a plup in his post match interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9kl6v7a3-8

John Higgins still the best all rounder in snooker for me, he just has not the stamina these days. Selby will always be in the conversation in the "top 8" of all time I think.

Oscar_Madison

Really enjoyed the British Open over the last week and great play from Selby last night

meetstenas

I could be wrong but Chinese players beat everyone in snooker like they have train by alien thing, and they beat these old classic players like no burden them at all. So my vote is for Chinese player but after my fav one Judd Trump.