Tenants Overholding when Landlord needs house for own dwelling!

burtner

So this is the situation I am in. I received notice from My landlord that his daughter is moving in. So I must move out of my rented accommodation and move back into my own house which i have let out to the current tenants for 10 years. So I gave the proper notice and statutory declaration to my tenants with more notice than they needed, Some 8 months. stating that I need to move back in. Their Lease ends on 1st june. They can't get anywhere suitable so are threatening to overhold. I offered to share the house with them as licensees while they look but was told They "Don't want to share"! My Tenants are making ME homeless. Any serious advice welcome.

DubCount

Welcome to the joys of the Irish Rental market. As the landlord, the system is against you. Overholding is accepted by official Ireland, and even encouraged. The only option you have for certain is to start a case with the RTB, wait for a hearing and go through the whole long and painful process of getting a legal eviction. The level of pain will depend on how well your tenants know the system and how entrenched they are.

Possibly, you say you are a tenant as well. You could also overhold.

Otherwise, find a new rental yourself, or declare yourself homeless to your local authority.

Good luck - the system should not be this way.

Del2005

They will most likely stop paying rent soon. So not only will you be homeless, you won't be getting any rent and will be lucky if they don't trash the place.

burtner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166934#Comment_122166934

I am a Landlord for past 16 Years, Cant wait to get out of it.

Emblematic

One of problems in in Ireland compared with, for example, the Netherlands, is that a tenant in Ireland can be evicted if the landlord wishes to move in a family member. Hence the situation described by the OP where he now must evict his own tenants potentially making them homeless. You have every right to be angry.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179447#Comment_122179447

The Irish system ensures that empty property while you are traveling or working somewhere else/before or between children going to college are available on the rental market.

Who would rent out their primary residence while it was empty if they couldn't get it back when they needed it?

Edit: and no doubt - as with all previous changes to rental laws in Ireland, if the government did change things, it would apply to existing properties- such that in the OP's scenario, the OP would be entirely deprived of any right to get their property back.

3DataModem

Serious advice:

1. Be extremely careful to follow the letter of the RTB rules when engaging with the tenants about their departure. But at the same time, continue your inspections, etc. If they are refusing to allow inspections, this is putting your property at risk.
2. Have a conversation with them (ideally F2F) about cash-for-keys. I promised an overholding tenant his last months rent back if he moved out. He moved out.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184500#Comment_122184500

It is indeed the Irish system at present. But it may not be the way to go forward if we want a robust secure rental system. The way forward may be to move away from temporary situations like you describe (and which have given rise to problems for the OP) to longer-term solutions.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186014#Comment_122186014

So where would people who only need short/medium term rentals live?

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186396#Comment_122186396

There might be fewer places that are exclusively short-term. But the problem in the market, as I see it, is tenants taking anything they can get then not being able to find a place when they are evicted. In this instance, the OP was evicted because the landlord wanted to move in a family member. The OP then issues an eviction notice to his own tenants who may not have an alternative place to rent. These tenants may now become a burden on homeless services.

If, like I believe is the case in the Netherlands where your landlord moving in a family member is not grounds for eviction, then this situation would not arise.

Note that in the Netherlands, if a landlord wants to move in then, in certain circumstances, they can do that. There is a balance. But they can't kick tenants out on the basis that some arbitrary family member wants to use the place.

DubCount

IMHO thats only a symptom of the problem. The real problem is supply. At the moment, there is not enough supply. so new tenants are paying higher and higher rents, and if anyone gets evicted, its really difficult to get another property - especially at the same rent as the price-controlled property they are getting evicted from.

Situations like the OP, are reducing supply, as people are reluctant to rent out their main residence for fear they wont be able to get it back when they need it. Anything that reduces supply makes the situation for tenants worse. There is an irony therefore that having quick and easy eviction for overholding tenants would make it easier (and cheaper) for tenants to find alternative rentals as this is a measure that would increase supply.

3DataModem

" There is an irony therefore that having quick and easy eviction for overholding tenants would make it easier (and cheaper) for tenants to find alternative rentals as this is a measure that would increase supply."

• Yep. It would also keep rents down.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188304#Comment_122188304

Absolutely!

Emblematic

Supply is very important and this, ultimately comes down to the building of new units for both purchase and rental. To achieve this the planning system needs to be streamlined and the problem of vexatious and frivolous objections needs to be tackled and many other issues need to be addressed.

But it should be noted that in the example given, assuming that the OP successfully evicts his tenants, no additional supply will have been created.

Would people here agree that we should look to examples where the rental system is generally regarded as being a success such as, say, Vienna?

tohaltuwi

I’ve recently got out of being a landlord stuck in a low rental income, not that I agree with goudging in any way. Sold to my tenants, win-win. Just waiting for the money to come into my bank account any day now. It’s not at all surprising how private landlords are exiting in their droves.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190295#Comment_122190295

Positive results like this need to be encouraged.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058352622/tenants-overholding-when-landlord-needs-house-for-own-dwelling

You will just have to overhold until your tenants move.

Do unto others as they would do unto you.

Luke 6:31

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190901#Comment_122190901

It really isn't positive as it basically has one person subsidizing another directly. The price was artificially low due to RPZ. While tohaltuwi doesn't mind there is no way others have to be as they may have other expenses and things to pay for. It could be care of an elderly parent, child in education, pension etc…

It may sound nice to transfer wealth but that should be on an equal basis not an individual just because of how their money is made

burtner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193314#Comment_122193314

A complete misrepresentation of scripture there. The words are "do to others as you wish them to do to you" So no, I wont overhold on my tenancy, because i don't want others to overhold on me!

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206299#Comment_122206299

The word wish is not mentioned. Despite your righteousness you do not appear to have studied the bible!

You making yourself homeless is not going to stop your tenants overholding.

In all likelihood your existing landlord is scamming you with a bogus story about needing the property and really intends to re-let at a higher rent.
Enjoy tent life!

burtner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207411#Comment_122207411

move to another post if you want to discuss scripture, i will discuss there, This is a property page. But "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." So treat people the way you want them to treat you is the meaning of this verse, and not Repay people with badness according to the badness they do to you. Gods word teaches us to be peacefull not vengeful.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207557#Comment_122207557

Nice response, that’s as good a rinsing as I’ve seen on boards. 😀

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207557#Comment_122207557

Your god is going to leave you in a tent, while your old landlord gets a new tenant at a higher rent, and your tenants luxuriate in your house. I would find a new god if I was you.