New eScooter Regulations

Bluefoam

My brother has health issues and has difficulty walking for long. Last year we bought him an eScooter to manage local short journeys to give him some independence (he doesn't drive). We were careful to get one that fitted in with all of the discussion about regulation, he's got no interest in speed or moding it outside of the regs. All of the discussion was that they'd be in line with European standards and similar to ebikes.

But this week when they actually announced the regulations, they blindsided everyone and arbitrarily reduced the allowable top speed to 20kmph... That means that almost every scooter bought, or currently on the market does not meet the standard and future eScooters will need to be manufactured specifically for the Irish market (unlikely)

Do you think that bigger brands like Xioami will release firmware to make these machines compliant?

It seems like the government are trying to **** people over.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058352259/new-escooter-regulations

Like everything the problem here is the responsible people are been screwed because of the irresponsible people.

Im not sure how they are going to check every eScooter to see if the speed is capped at 20kmph.

Not sure they are trying to f**k people over or implement a law to make the devices as safe as possible

I still can't understand why people thought it was a good idea to buy these devices for children, of course it was going to be banned.

magicbastarder

to be fair, the government did not arbitrarily decide on a 20km/h limit; that is designed to fit in with guidelines in many european countries (e.g. https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/content/etsc-and-pacts-set-out-safety-recommendations-e-scooters-and-their-riders

however, yeah, they had been talking about 25km/h as a limit at one point. i suspect the gardai aren't going to make a blind bit of fuss about one capable of doing 25km/h though.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058352259/new-escooter-regulations

It may be possible to modify your brother's scooter by installing software updates.

They can limit power output and speed.

Might be best to consult the dealer you purchased from.

dbentham

My car (like most cars) is capable of breaking all speed limits. But it is up to me - the driver - to abide by the limits. The same logic should be applied to escooters, instead of capping the throttle to limit them.

As far as I know, they all have a digital speedometer. So it should be up to the rider to obey the limits. I think that the offence should be for speeding or dangerous use of them etc. and not related to the max speed that they're capable of.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158494#Comment_122158494

I see where you are coming from but I'm not sure there are direct comparisons with motor vehicles.

Presumably you have taken lessons and passed a test to ensure a level of competency.

Your vehicle is subject to regular roadworthiness resting, is identified by a licence plate and insured.

I'm not suggesting that we should apply such strict regulations to scooters but that we treat them differently.

I also think it's reasonable for our regulations to fall into line with other countries.

Xterminator

how did they blindside people by implementing a sensible speed limit?

I mean if you stick your head in the sand i guess you can be blindsided. The EU recommendations linked earlier were published in28 February 2023.

ETSC and PACTS set out safety recommendations for e-scooters and their riders Press Release - 28 February 2023

It was around this time last year the government said it was going to legislate

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/02/01/e-scooter-legislation-plan-prompts-warning-from-industry/

https://techbuzzireland.com/2023/06/27/zeus-applauds-new-law-to-legalise-e-scooter-use-in-ireland/

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/machines/ireland-e-scooters-legal-regulation-mobility

Now they finally get around to it and you blindsided?

magicbastarder

You found three stories to support the contention about the 20km/h limit - and none of the three mention that limit!

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160197#Comment_122160197

Don't be so disingenuous… There is nothing in the three articles you linked to to suggest that there would be a 20kmph limit implemented. Thoughout the process, it was always stated that they would be treated the same as ebikes with a 25kmph limit. The first sign that it was going to be less was this month when they actually released the legislation. Hence why the public & the manufacturers were blindsided… I'm sure if the EU had communicated (as you say) that they were going to make the regulations 20kmph, that big brands like Xaoimi would have managed their production to suit.

bk

Worth noting that EU regulations allow up to 25km/h for escooters and that is the speed limit in most EU countries.

For instance it is 25km/h in France. However yes other countries set lower limits like 20km/h in Germany. However 25 is definitely the majority of countries:

https://electrotraveller.com/electric-scooters-eu-road-traffic-regulations/

So Ireland has certainly chosen to be conservative and it shows poor nanny statisim of the Irish government.

Xterminator

in the eu guidelines dated feb 2023 it says

Among the recommendations from ETSC and PACTS are: "…… A factory-set speed limit of 20 km/h, aligned with current rules in Denmark, Germany, Italy, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland as well as a 250W power limit;"

I mean you could argue the Irish government might ignore EU expert recommendations. But can you honestly say its a surprise if they dont?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160646#Comment_122160646

The European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) is a Brussels-based independent non-profit making organisation dedicated to reducing the numbers of deaths and injuries in transport in Europe.

So not an EU regulation, just some random independent group.

Xterminator

Expert report is 35 pages long, and was produced by 2 groups not one.

• The European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) is a Brussels-based independent non-profit making organisation dedicated to reducing the numbers of deaths and injuries in transport in Europe. 
• The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety (PACTS) is a registered UK charity. It supports the UK All-Party Parliamentary Group for Transport Safety. Its charitable objective is “To protect human life through the promotion of transport safety for the public benefit”.

And they produced an expert report detailing what the regulations across Europe are now, what safety measure are in existence across europe now and make recommendations.

And if you read the report you realise the 20km recommendation was already the legal limit in 6 European countries as of 2023. The report was produced to call for harmonization of regulations across Europe - which is some thing the EU is known for.

You didn't have to know about the report. What you should/could have known was that when the government announced in 2023 if was going to legislate, the speed limit was 20 in six of the European countries that had already put regulation in place.

When taxis were regulated it had been flagged for years. Yet there were people on the radio complaining that their 80k investment was wiped out, and regulation had come out of no-where. My point is simple. Most European countries were either working on regulation or had just brought it in, when our government got off it backside. 20KM was the most common speed limit proposed & adopted and was not just a figure plucked out of the air, but backed by scientific evidence. So its not a mystery why our government picked that figure. It was the speed limit already being most used across the EU!!

FYI the report complies injury statistics from across the EU to backup its recommendations and it is very well written. Great read.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161483#Comment_122161483

I didn't mention the second body, because they are a random charity and UK based so not even part of the EU!

You claimed "in the eu guidelines dated feb 2023 it says" these clearly aren't any sort of official EU guidelines.