Joint Accounts and Tax

MPFGLB

The thing is now she is coming to making a will. And I feel its unfair that she will leave this money to be divided among my siblings who are far more well off the me rather than it reverting back to me as she hasnt spent it. Elsewhere in other accounts she has alot of money to leave to my siblings and I am happy to not receive any of this money

So I thought if I went on a joint account with her for this moeny then on her death I would get it outside of propate. I can prove with bank statements that the money came from renting my house. I am happy for her to spend it but she never will and it will be left to others who have  not paid tax on it like I have nor ist from their house

But there is also the issue of tax

Will the monies  revert to me on her death if we have  a joint

Will I have to pay tax on it as I have already paid tax on it as rental income

Will I have to pay her tax even if I prove its my money 

Is there a better way to get it if she doesnt spend it ...I know you can say she leave it in her will to me but she has no will for her moeny ...she hates the idea of leaving money to anyone 

any advice / help gratefully received

Deeec

Your post is very very unclear - it's not making sense. Who is 'she' - your wife, mother, sister or partner.

She ( whoever she is), is entitled to do as she pleases. What you perceive as fair is irrelevant.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351437/joint-accounts-and-tax

That's all very unclear, as it depends on who "she" is. But it depends on how the account was set up. If the bank was given instructions when the account was opened that the other person was to receive the money on the death of the deceased, the money can be transferred into the survivor’s name.

MPFGLB

Sorry about my post

She is my mother

BTW My mother has always done as she pleases

The money we are talking about here came from the rent of my hosue that she manged and I would like that money to go to me and not anyone else . after she passes on. This is not unreasonable

Her own money , ie other money she can do with as she pleases

I thought a joint account by its nature meant the money deferred to the surviving partner. As I said if she spends it that is fine but if she doesnt then its in propate (she wont make a will) and my siblings get it also . This is unfair as I am the only one who rings her and looks out for her as the others have fallen out with her

So in conclusion , money came from rent into joint current account I have with my mother , I paid taxes and profit was transferred into an account only in my mothers name for 14 years. About 5K a year . Now I want to ensure that money comes to me as mine originally without falling out with her and not forcing her to make a will. I thought a joint account would do it

Will the monies  revert to me on her death if we have  a joint account and how can I ensure this

Will I have to pay tax on it as I have already paid tax on it as rental income but my mother put the rest into her own account and hasnt paid tax on it . What happens to a person's tax burden after they die with a joint account

Will I have to pay her tax even if I prove its my money originally that she put in her account and none of it was spent and it was returned …"The money was resting in her account"

Can I go back to the point where it is all in the current account used to manage the house and rent. Could I do this by persuading her to return the money to current account. Or could I have retrospectively gifted her 3K a year for 15 years and just return the rest

While I am concerned with solution of a joint account for the money I also worried about the tax burden in a joint account

 

Geuze

If you owned a house, that was rented out, all the rental profits accrue to you, and you owe income tax on the rental profits.

If your mother does not own the house, how would she have anything to do with the rental profits and any income tax liability?

You seem to have transferred 5k *14 years = 70k of your rental profits into a joint account.

That sort of looks like you gifted your mother 2.5k each year?

Why don't you simply withdraw the 70k now?

MPFGLB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141174#Comment_122141174

I have paid the tax on all the rental income as I said in my previous post

My mother managed the house and we had a joint current account. She transferred the money after expenses/taxes into an account in her name …that is where the money lies

My question was of the nature of joint accounts and nothing else

She took the money as payment and I ddint stop her …this was not alot of money every year ..about 4K but it has accululated to 70K

Now ignoring the rights and wrongs of this I just want to know if I get her to put my name on this account and make it a joint account that

I will get the money when she passes on (as it is originally from my house)

And it will not go into propate

And as I paid taxes on the money already I wont have to pay any tax

I am happy to wait for it but dont want the money to go to other siblings as mine and dont want to hall her through a legal battle. She wont spend it

And of course what si the status of a joint account if she is assessed for care…would did consider all or part of the monies in a joint account

I dont gift anyone anything nor did I not pay taxes…

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185301#Comment_122185301

It depends on the type of joint account. Talk to your bank. As for gifting, there could be a case that your mother, by virtue of you putting money in an account for her use, could be liable to tax on it. Pay your bank a visit.

Geuze

It appears that your mother stole 35k from you?

She transferred 35k out of a joint current account into her own account?

Did you agree to this?

MPFGLB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189816#Comment_122189816

Not really …I thought she would take 3K per annum and that would be covered by Tax free annual gift

She took more than that and now can we put it back into joint account as I have paid tax on this money from joint account

The issue here si not the taking of the money…She will give it back . The issue is the tax man and others realise the money was originally from joint account and I have already paid tax on it and it is not 'new' money to me. The bank accounts can show these transfers . How long could they keep bank details

Peregrinus

Why would you wait for your mother to die to settle this up? It's going to be much easier to settle it up while she's still alive.

If she received more than she was owed for her work in managing the property, ask her to repay the difference. I don't see why you would wait until she is dead to get it back.

If there is a disagreement over what she was owed, then you need to resolve the disagreement now, while she is still alive. It is not going to be possible to resolve it after she has died.

The answer to your question is yes, it's possible to open a joint account with your mother on terms that when one of you dies the balance on the account goes to the survivor. But for tax purposes you would be treated as inheriting that money from your mother and it would be taken into account in calculating your inheritance tax liability, which seems unfair if it is actually your money and you have already paid income tax on it. So, even apart from having to wait until your mother dies to get the money back, this is not a great way of resolving the issue.

(And, yes, if at some point she is financially assessed in the context of the Fair Deal scheme or similar, the money in a joint account will be included in her assets. She has access to the whole of the balance on the account; it will all be included in the assessment.)

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228922#Comment_122228922

If income tax has been paid correctly, then you can transfers funds from account to account as much as you like.