Films ruined by propaganda and/or unrealistic situations/stories ....

lumphammer2

What films come to mind as the worst when it comes to blatant propaganda?? …. for me it is anything with Chuck Norris in it …. The Delta Force ….. all his Vietnam films …. in fact most return to Vietnam to rescue POW type films in general …..

Unrealistic situations/stories are harder …. what comes to mind ?? …. not including deliberate sci fi type films here …. films like the Indiana Jones series, Back to the Future series, Matrix series, etc. ….. or speculative possibility type films like the Stars Wars series …. but films that seemingly break their own rules …. Bond film Die Another Day with invisible car comes to mind for me …. Bond is meant to be far fetched at times I know but not this far fetched !! …

magicbastarder

I'd say watching Rambo 3 again would be fun. John Rambo helping the Mujahedeen defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128324#Comment_122128324

lol. Good call!

whisky_galore

Pierce Brosnan skydiving off a motorbike and grabbing onto an airplane. Really?

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128324#Comment_122128324

I remember a few years ago RTE were showing Rambo 3. The ad for it was hilarious:

Bamboo!!

Plus The Taliban!!

Versus The Commies!!

It can only be "Rambo 3"

But I don't know if you can say films like this and the likes of Delta Force were "riuned" by overt propaganda. That was the whole point of them: America Good. Everyone else bad or weak (Europe). They were xtravision shelf fodder. Rows and rows of cheap "Get the Commies" or "Back to Nam" wish fulfillment movies. Hell, every TV show had an episode or two of the same (Every American TV character seems to be a Vietnam vet).

Used to love them as a kid (15+) but even then knew that they were really garbage. Remember one was Navy Seals with Michael Beihn and Charlie Sheen. Was one of the last of them. Looked very expensive and big cast for the time and so many clichés it looks like a parody. Supremely bad and it came out too late, after people had moved on and flopped hard. Its very enjoyable and genuinely laugh out loud awful

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128392#Comment_122128392

One of RTE's more daring adverts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6kd9c8hq-c

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128397#Comment_122128397

I wish I could thank you twice!!!!! I've been looking for that for years!!! You LEGEND (Exclamation Mark)

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128416#Comment_122128416

You're welcome. Was certainly a memorable advert.

Fritzbox

And not accurate at all. The Taliban didn't exist in the 1980s at the time of the Soviet Afghan war.

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128526#Comment_122128526

That's what adds an extra comedic effect to the whole thing.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128526#Comment_122128526

Rambo didn't exist either.

Agent Coulson

Top Gun.

nigeldaniel

I take every movie as it comes. Sub plots and all. Its no biggie.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128324#Comment_122128324

Well the Soviets weren't exactly difficult to propagandize against, wasn't Afghanistan a plot line in The Living Daylights?

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128397#Comment_122128397

There was another promo around the same time for the Predator on RTE Two that used the Polices Every Breath You Take.

Mickeroo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128324#Comment_122128324

I could be misremembering but the same guys help out James Bond in The Living Daylights too I'm nearly sure!

In general I think nearly all action films have some degree of propaganda\vague political message in them relating to the time they were made in. I think that can often enhance the film more than anything, even if the ideas have aged badly or you disagree with them now. The 80's was a bit of a golden age for that type of thing due to the Cold War imo.

ELM327

Birth of a Nation. Completely ruined for me by propaganda.

magicbastarder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb3gdUrIC4Q

i've never seen breakfast at tiffany's, but i've certainly heard of that scene…

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131830#Comment_122131830

Strangely, one of my favourite movies, Hunt of Red October, seems to be the complete antithesis to that. Granted, the entire Soviet Navy is out to stop Red October from making it to the US, but whenever you see their crews at work, they're not painted as evil. Rather, they're professionals, doing their jobs. Granted, the skipper of that one particular soviet hunter-killer sub ordered to hunt down Red October is seething, but it's more frustration, and possibly anguish at having to take out Ramius, than mustache-twirling evil.

Meanwhile, a 2011 movie marketed as its successor, Hunter Killer, is effectively unwatchable due to its stereotypical characters and "America - F**k Yeah" jingoism. The piss-poor CGI isn't helping either, to be fair.

Hande hoche!

While on the topic of submarine films with a hefty dose of jingoism, a classic example would be U571.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131973#Comment_122131973

I haven't seen that Hunter Killer film.

But yeah, it's worth remembering that 80s Reagan-era America was even MORE 'MURICA than today as it was less polarised than it is today. The rich were getting richer. There were no poor people. If you were poor, you simply didn't believe in The American Dream ™ hard enough. The Ruskies were one-note moustache-twirling baddies. Often times, sexual deviants (ie, gay). Apart from the ones attempting to defect. Europe If they were mentioned at all) were either back in the stone age "Cor blimey Guv'nor" or cheese-eating surrender-monkeys in awe of the size of America's….. um arsenal

America was gonna bring Pepsi, Budweiser and Van Halen to the world 'cos, Goddamnit, they got bigger bombs than the commies.

It wasn't quite as evangelical bible-bashing as today. It was still "Jesus was 'Murican" but was less overt than today (Jesus guns babies).

The films were cheap fodder, designed to fill rental shelves at a time when VHS was just becoming popular and people had, maybe 4 or 5 channels.

Made cheaply and quickly. Amazing how Afghanistan looked very like California. Everyone running around with AK-47s no matter their nationality. Nuance was not really a concern. lol.

Then Mad Max came out and it was amazing how California looked like a post-apocalyptic wasteland :)

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137874#Comment_122137874

Mad Max was shot in Australia.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143146#Comment_122143146

And set there as well.

RobbingBandit

Team America

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143146#Comment_122143146

No, I meant all the cheap rip-offs. Every film that started with "in the year 1999 the oil ran out..."

Nigel Fairservice

Rocky IV is more or less a Cold War allegory. Ivan Drago killing Creed in the ring while wearing his American flag trunks and Rocky being triumphant on the end. Not sure I'd say it ruined the movie though.

Tork

The American President (1995) which was Aaron Sorkin's precursor to The West Wing. It's hard to watch that now and buy into the idealism.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143526#Comment_122143526

The American President or The West Wing?

Montage of Feck

Absolute Power with Eastwood and Hackman about a sleazy sex pest president, turned out to be probably the most realistic depiction of a president in a 90's movie.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143568#Comment_122143568

American President…cos this is the films forum 😁

buried

The new Dune film is ruined by the progressive propaganda portrayal of the Chani character. The whole premise of the thing is ruined by her total about turn, as opposed to how she is portrayed in the books, and this about turn totally drags you out the fourth wall, because it makes absolutely zero sense.

purifol0

"I'm not saying the Jews run Hollywood...but I have been there and there sure were a lot of Jews" - Dave Chapelle

Transformers 3 - autobots take time off from scrapping with the decepticons to kill with (extreme prejudice) Iranians and attack their "illegal" nuclear base on behalf of their allies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbtbSmak3_g

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143721#Comment_122143721

Felt the opposite tbh, Chani in the book barely has a character beyond 'feisty fighter', and just falls in with whatever Paul does or says. Given that Herbert himself was dismayed by readers reactions to the first book - with them reading it as Paul's heroic tale - and Villeneuve's stated ambition to address that to try to make the viewer come out with the perspective Herbert had intended, she's a character that makes perfect sense to do it through. It's also not played as an 'about turn', it's very consistent with the character Villeneuve created throughout.

lumphammer2

Rambo 3 or Rambo III as it stated on the cover …. was a favourite of many back then …. the old video rental was always full of people requesting this only to find it booked out …. I was one and had to wait a week to get my turn to get it !! … funny back then I would not have thought much about the content …. all one wanted was shootouts, fights and explosions ….. the message did not matter and horrors like the 2003 Iraq war did not happen yet ….

The Mujahedin in the film were the Islamic resistance movement against the then Afghan communist government and its Soviet backers …. they were not strictly the same as the Taliban but many of the original 1990s-2001 Taliban regime officials plus Osama bin Laden and the future Al Qaeda were very much prominent in that war ….. just not named those things yet …. they were then considered allies of the US !! ….

Rambo III and Rambo First Blood Part 2 were better than than those Chuck Norris yokes though ….. but the original Rambo called First Blood is essential viewing …. a great film about the struggles of a Vietnam veteran coming home and rejected by America's small towns' mentality …. Sylvester Stallone gives a great performance as a convincing dejected ex soldier and Brian Dennehy likewise as the local Sherriff Will Teasle ….. the main villain is a guy called Galt whose bullying of Rambo causes Rambo to erupt and poisons the relationship between Rambo and Teasle …. it is prob true that Teasle was reluctant to let Rambo into the town because he knew what Galt would do but also was too weak to stand up to Galt …. Galt eventually dies accidentally and I remember watching at the time and wanting so bad for Rambo to smash in Galt's head !!!! …. Galt was a truly despicable character …..

TheIrishGrover

Well First Rambo was a genuinely decent film alright and bore no resemblance to the sequels. But in general, for the video-fodder of the 80s/90s there was no real hidden meaning. There was no subtlety. 'Murica good. Everyone else weak or bad.

https://youtu.be/roswPPr2t3U?si=25sXsHbAThg5jBlI&t=4

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351337/films-ruined-by-propaganda-and-or-unrealistic-situations-stories

Jesus the Chuck Norris films are fluff they are not to be taken serious you must not enjoy loads of films then with guns that fire longer or an explosion.

Anyway 1 for me is U571 went all the way with a complaint by the house of Commons and a Not based on real world writing on the screen though put after the film not at the start

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143721#Comment_122143721

Ya a lot of TV and films based on books can do this unfortunately and totally changed it

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143889#Comment_122143889

For me, the total visceral and brutal world portrayed in the novels was brilliantly done in part 1, the world seems totally real. Part of it does this by showcasing the likes of the Sardaukar and the Fremen as these two brutal warrior regimes basically programmed by fundamentalist ideology, an ideology that is inherently brutal and extremely violent, with no mercy and no tolerance for debating it. Then in part 2 we have this IMO nonsensical scene where a group of basically lowly warrior canon fodder fighters such as Chani and her young waneen gang are constantly blaspheming and disrespecting the ideology and are given a pass for doing it. That makes no sense in the world Vileneuve created for the first part and it completely dragged me out of the second film. And it happened way way too much. A good analogy would be showcasing a bunch of the low ranking Sardaukar lads waking up in the morning and proclaiming "y'know what lads, I think this Emperor lad is a wollix and I think we are being used like canon fodder for this wollixs own ends", sure they'd be dragged out and crucified on the upside down blood river pyramid quicker than you could say gom jabbar, but the likes of Chani gets away with saying the same thing within the same brutalistic world. It was a serious problem for me watching the second part.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167504#Comment_122167504

I get your point alright… it didn't feel like that so much to me though, and was more Chani respecting the traditional ways, rather than jumping on board this outsider-God story - particularly since she was in the position of knowing that it was all manipulation, with Paul himself telling her he was just equal to them, no better or worse. So from her point of view, she knew it was a 'false profit' story that was being stirred up by Lady Jessica to take advantage of her people - so her walking away from Paul when he finally 'owns' the story himself and takes his position as their christ figure makes sense. It also works well to rectify what Herbert himself felt was lost on audiences in the book, that this was all bad for the Fremen - victorious in a sense, but ultimately shackled and used by another outsider/coloniser figure.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167543#Comment_122167543

It completely diluted the world for me, it made the fremen seem like a bunch of all over the place clowns, compared to the first part. I get they have to make it a certain way for the blockbuster audiences but that just takes a brilliant timeless artistic story and festoon in unrealistic situations to placate the blockbuster audience and whatever its current zeitgeist beliefs are this particular year.

lumphammer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149879#Comment_122149879

V true …. the first Rambo was a great film that depicted an often untold story of the Vietnam war …. the lonely and traumatised soldier returning from his duty and not being accepted ….

The Rambo sequels and other such films were typical video fodder of the times ….. the Rambo sequels were better though than the Norris films and the low budget copycats like Strike Commando et al …. but there was an insatiable appetite for all such films …. the video rentals like XtraVision were full of them ….

Like the anti-Native American Western they were products of their time …. I like a good Western but am v much a person who would not watch a Western where the Native Americans are the 'bad' guys ….

The Bond film The Living Daylights …. which I regard as one of the better Bond films …. also took in some of the Rambo-era influences but in a more moderate nuanced way …. like Octopussy …. another underrated slightly earlier Bond film with a similar story ….. the film is careful to emphasise the distinction between the helpful moderate Russian and the rogue Russian ….. in The Living Daylights, Bond is an ally of the good Russian Pushkin who ends up killing his own that is the bad Russian Koskov …. same happened to the bad Russian Orlov in Octopussy …. while Bond dealt with the other villain ….. an American in The Living Daylights and an Iranian/Afghan/Persian type ex royal in Octopussy ….

I know the scene at the end of The Living Daylights where Bond and all his allies come to the concert of the Czech musician who is Bond's girlfriend is a little contrived …. you have the Afghan Mujaheddin, the moderate Russians and Bond all there together !!! But in many ways it was more in tune with the Gorbachev era than many of the Rambo tyoe films ….

As relations improved at the time between America and Russia the anti-Russian/anti-communist film began to subside …. relations between America and Russia were better during the Gorbachev/Yeltsin/early Putin periods …. but have been poor really ever since 2003 and the Iraq war and worse since the Ukraine war ….. things like the Iraq war have also dampened any renewed enthusiasm for 1980s style Rambo films …. with even the latest … and may I add very very violent … Rambo sequel focusing on drug dealers instead …..

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143568#Comment_122143568

Both.