Does a social housing development need planning permission?

podge3

I'm sure this has happened before but I can find little information online about it.

I live in a small provincial town, population about 8,000 people. My housing estate is about 25 years old, privately built at the time as are all the neighbouring estates.

A development site behind our estate (a relic from the celtic tiger times which previously had planning) applied a few years ago for planning permission for about 70 houses. This would be a large site for the town and was the first large scale development in about 15 years.

When planning was applied for, it contained the usual provision for the 10% Part V social houses, 7 houses in total. Many houseowners in neighbouring estates made submissions about the density of the overall estate etc. An appeal was subsequently lodged with An Bord Pleanala but planning was ultimately granted with little change to the original plans. We have now discovered that a taxpayer funded housing association has purchased all 70 houses for the provision of social housing. All the houses will be social, no affordable will be available.

My question is should planning be required for this? The original planning application contained only the usual 10% of social housing and we were never given the opportunity to make submissions related to the long-term negative equity on existing homeowners due to the disproportionate level of social housing, well above any accepted norms in a private residential area.

Obviously with housing being such a hot potato, no national or local politician will be of any help.

podge3

With a bit more Googling, I can answer my own question: https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/no-planning-permission-required-for-housing-body-to-deliver-cork-social-units-an-bord-pleanala-1549418.html

Can't say I'm surprised.

GSBellew

Why would planning permission be required for the sale of the houses?

You would not require planning to buy one, so I do not see why it would be any different?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350052/does-a-social-housing-development-need-planning-permission

No planning required.
Developer A can apply for planning and build 50 Houses.

I can then go in and buy all 50 in one lump and rent them out to an AHB or private rent tomorrow if so I wish.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350052/does-a-social-housing-development-need-planning-permission

Planning permission has already been granted. Who owns the houses is irrelevant.

Do the social housing body actually own the homes or are they renting them from the developer?

In reality, a lot of new build schemes nowadays end up with more than 10% social as the councils either buy up or rent extra stock to meet their housing list backlogs.

suvigirl

sure anyone can buy houses OP. Is there an issue about it? Surely it's better then unfinished/ empty houses lying there?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122091995#Comment_122091995

An bord pleanala can impose a condition restricting the houses being sold to vulture funds

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092021#Comment_122092021

Yes, but I mean on the open market

Madd002

I can't see what the issue is, housing is needed in Ireland badly, The housing Association that you say purchased them have strict tenant conditions and don't take any bullshit like council regarding non payment of rent etc. they also interview potential tenants and gave a handbook with rules etc.

I often look out at the green fields around me and wonder why houses couldn't be built on them small 8-10 houses cul de sacs.

nearest village 1km & Town 10km, bus goes innand out from crossroads 6 times a day so no car needed if u work 9-5.30/6 last bus out is 11pm.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350052/does-a-social-housing-development-need-planning-permission

Are you clear on what negative equity means?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092183#Comment_122092183

I’d assume he meant negative impacts on equity rather than actual negative equity.

As in a loss of equity and/or impact on growth rate of equity.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092025#Comment_122092025

The OPs whole point is these houses won't go onto the open market, and was questioning the legality of this.

Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done.

Personally I don't agree with social housing bodies being allowed purchase whole finished estates, as that just leads to the problems that the Part V social housing policy was enacted to avoid.

podge3

Thanks for the replies.

To answer some of the specific questions:

• Do the social housing body actually own the homes or are they renting them from the developer? Housing body owns the houses. Money is provided via the council AFAIK.
• sure anyone can buy houses OP. Is there an issue about it? Surely it's better then unfinished/ empty houses lying there? That is one of the problems with this, not just anyone can now buy one of these new houses as the council (via an intermediary) have purchased them all. Many young people I know (who work and pay tax) and were hoping for a chance to buy a house in this development have had this option removed from them. These houses were never going to be unfinished/empty.
• An bord pleanala can impose a condition restricting the houses being sold to vulture funds. Correct, but these rules do not apply to the council, it seems.
• Are you clear on what negative equity means? An incorrect term in respect of my own house (I meant a reduction in equity) but it is the correct term for those who purchased a house in any of the neighbouring estates recently. All our houses are now worth less than they were a few months ago.

podge3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092316#Comment_122092316

This is it in a nutshell. The government decided decades ago that large enclaves of social housing were a bad idea but now think it fine to purchase full estates in predominately privately owned areas.

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies. I came here looking for advice, the people in Wilton have already been down this path and lost. This is not the forum to discuss the reasons why this practice is wrong and unfair on those who work for a living.

Quitelife

Councils are snapping up any houses going for sale in many counties and giving them then to people on the dole who never worked and then they cause trouble in the estate for existing house owners …meanwhile young working couples cant afford to buy a house outbid by councils…doesnt seem right ???

Geuze

Many people confuse negative equity with capital loss, that's why I asked.

It's great to see more supply help to bring house prices down.

We need loads more of that.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093959#Comment_122093959

Correct, it is not right.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093956#Comment_122093956

That is a good point.

One the one hand, the State and LA don't build single-tenure housing estates anymore.

Yet, AHBs are allowed to buy whole estates from developers!!!

It's mind boggling to me that in the middle of a decade old housing crisis with record homelessness the first reaction of many people to proposed residential development is basically panic.

And the argument of insufficient services etc is in my view irrelevant. The people are generally already living in the areawhere the development is planned. A new housing estate/apartment block won't have a net impact availability, it'll just help improve people's living conditions.

And the view- backed by the High Court for some stupid reason- that planning for residential development is either perfect or illegal is frankly retarded.

And then there's the utter selfishness of people who can't think beyond their own immediate interests combined with their stupidity that they can't recognise the social benefits which will accrue to them from alleviation of the housing crisis.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122099272#Comment_122099272

The OP isn’t objecting to the development, the houses are already built.

The question is whether it’s right to simply land a medium sized social housing scheme on existing residents without any form of planning, consultation or right to appeal.

It is inherently wrong but completely legal and that’s where the issue lies.

scarepanda

For sure there's a lot of selfishness around. But in my local town, a small town with a decent amount of it's own social issues, there's a few estates being constructed. One of the main ones recently finished in a relatively prime area of the town, has a significant amount of social housing. Nobody I've spoken to locally has an issue with that on the face of it, if the houses were going to locals. But they are not, at least not alot of them. The powers that be have decided to import problems from other towns and cities that are even outside the county, without the support structures required in place. We can hardly deal with our home grown problems without importing others.