Heat pump complaint

ggg99ggg

Hi. I’m writing here to see if anyone else is having these issues and may know what can be done about it. Not sure how to even use this site yet as I created an account just to post this. 

We live in a council house and some months ago all the windows were replaced which was great. They keep the heat in amazingly. Here’s the thing. We were also forced to get rid of the fireplace and install a heat pump. The costs were covered by the council which also sounded great, we’re thinking we’ll be more energy efficient and save on oil and coal costs. Now since the heat pump has been installed we’re faced with massive electricity bills. 

We weren’t fully taught how to use the heat pump and not gonna lie I don’t fully understand the instructions online and my neighbours are saying the same thing .

My electricity bill used to be very low maybe Max 100€ every two months now I’m paying over €200 every single month. I’m paying more than if I were buying coal and oil. The costs are making us struggle and I’m annoyed there was no choice to keep the fireplace which had a back boiler installed heating the whole house when we chose to sit and relax in the living room. Now that is gone (including the atmosphere). There’s no one to turn to and I’m not sure who to complain to about the high costs of electricity which are really crippling us. We were told we would be better off with the heat pump, the house would be warm and we’d save money on oil and coal, yet here we are. 

If anyone had any advice please let me know what can be done. 

By the way we have asked the council to send someone to show us how exactly to use the pump and what the best setting could be. The worker that showed up more than once was always apologetic saying they were never taught how to use it just how to install it and they simply don’t know what can be set up to lower the costs.

the_amazing_raisin

Sorry to hear about your troubles, it sounds like the heat pump wasn't set up correctly and could be running inefficiently as a result

Unfortunately a lot of installers don't know how to setup the heat pump for maximum efficiency and will tend to try and supply max heat in a short period of time

Ideally, your heat pump should be running at a relatively low heat output for a long time. The more the heat pump cycles on and off, the higher the energy consumption

So if you have the heat set to only come on for an hour or two in the evening and morning then this will be less efficient than having it on all night and using the thermostats to prevent the house overheating

It's also worth taking a look at your electricity tariffs. The heat pump might be more efficient from an energy standpoint, but if you're on an expensive electricity tariff then it can be more expensive to run

Failing that, it's worth contacting the manufacturer to see if they can send a service agent out or perhaps then can guide you on how to set it up properly

There's also a crowd in the UK called Heat Geeks. They're trying to educate installers and customers on how to setup a heat pump correctly

They have lots of videos on YouTube describing how to set them up yourself, they also have a certification scheme and some installers in Ireland have gotten certified, might be worth talking to one of them?

https://www.heatgeek.com/find-a-heat-geek/

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058349392/heat-pump-complaint

Hi! What upgrades were done in addition to the windows? Are they triple-glazed? Was the front door also replaced and did they fit or upgrade vents? Was the house wrapped in insulation and what about the insulation in the attic? Finally, what year was the house built in?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058349392/heat-pump-complaint

By the way we have asked the council to send someone to show us how exactly to use the pump and what the best setting could be. The worker that showed up more than once was always apologetic saying they were never taught how to use it just how to install it and they simply don’t know what can be set up to lower the costs.

Thats your problem there. Online research or advice from people on this forum will be just a stab in the dark to be honest. Every heat pump system and install is different and you need to be shown how to navigate the menus on your system and adjust things properly. Its not a case that what works for someone else will necessarily work for you.

Maybe its wasted effort but you need to get back onto the council and ask them to send someone with knowledge of how to tweak the system settings or at least explain them to you, so you can tweak them.

At a high level, assuming the system is properly installed, you might need to reduce the flow temperature and do that incrementally 1-2 days at a time until you find the lowest setting possible that still gives you a comfortable temperature in the house. The process for doing that will be different for each HP make/model.

I'll ask a few questions anyway to see if we can help…

1. What make/model heat pump is it?
2. Presumably the heating is still via radiatiors (i.e. they didnt put in underfloor heating)?
3. Did they change the radiators during the upgrade?
4. Did they do other work besides the windows…. insulate attic etc?
5. How big is the house in square feet?
6. Would you say the house is even possibly too warm since the switch to HP?

Padre_Pio

My heat pump rule is to reduce the temperature by a few degrees and see if anyone in the house complains that it's cold.

If they complain then increase by 1 degree, wait 2 days and see if anyone is still complaining.

If they don't then decrease by 1 degree. Rinse and repeat.

halkar

First thing I would ask council is energy rating for the house. If they just replaced windows with no wrapping or other insulations heat pump may not be suitable for you. I wouldn't be surprised if county councils are installing heat pumps to tick boxes for their green agenda.

You can run the radiators in low temperatures but it will take very long time to heat up the house and only useful if you let heating running 24 hours on demand as its called by termostats either on radiators individually or from zones configured. I wouldn't use this method though. It may be better run the heating on timers. If you have smart meter you can run at night rate and EV rates (few hours) if you time heating to come on after midnight. You can separate the bedrooms with lowered temperatures. If the house insulated well it will retain the heat depending on the outside temperature. May or might not need top up later in the evening. This is how I use mine. I keep downstairs temperatures high and never need heating during the day or evening. My heat pump runs only on night time. Some says it may not be good setup but works for me. You will need to experiment until you get the right setup. I agree your bills are very high and it's not even freezing cold now.

slave1

Very general comment to add to others, your house should now be heated at a lower temp for longer periods but (again generally) as a result radiators should have been looked at to increase their size due to lower temp running through them.

Was this done?

ggg99ggg

yeah the windows are triple glazed and doors were also replaced. Someone came to insulate the attic but said it’s done sufficiently well as we did that ourselves a few years back. No other insulation upgrades were done. And yeah vents too. House would have been built early 2000s maybe 2005.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077251#Comment_122077251

HeatPump wont be able to run on your old, standard radiators as they would be sized to have water @ 70+ degrees running through them. A heatpump doesn't run at this temperature, so they are no longer outputting as much heat as they once did.

Basically your radiators are designed to run in sprint mode for short bursts but a HP is designed to plod along at marathon pace for long periods.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058349392/heat-pump-complaint

With local elections coming up soon, your local councillors will be only too delighted to hear from you, and will hopefully arrange appropriate engagement with the Council staff for you.

graememk

Just a thought, When are you comparing bills against, By any chance would you have the bills from back then?

What I am thinking is the hike in electric rates which would also be compounding the problem. eg rates over winter was as high as 40c/kWh. Tie in more electric use with higher rates will see bills jump.

If you can get the bills from previous years you can see how much your electric use has gone up.

Unfortunately any of that does not help your current situation, It shouldnt be down to the user to learn how to make the system run cheaply, but more often than not, that is the case.

ggg99ggg

I did not know that! Thank you will have that looked at and will be something I bring up to the council if nothing else helps

ggg99ggg

appreciate the help! Thank you

TerraSolis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078865#Comment_122078865

Quite often Heat Pumps are installed with Room Temp control by default (especially if it's a mitsubishi ecodan or a new samsung). On new units, Room Temp mode will attempt to "learn" how to heat the particular system most efficiently. At the start however, they can be inefficient in their operation as they do not want new customers to associate heat pumps with discomfort, so they err on the side of comfort over and above optimal efficiency. For example, if the heating was off and then switched on or the thermostat was suddenly turned up, the heat pump will try to heat the room/catch up very quickly instead of a slow and steady ramp at higher efficiency.

The good new is that as the heat pump learns, it should operate more efficiently. I know quite a few people with the Mitsubishi & Samsung units that have experienced this. Is the house overheating at all or very warm at night for example?

stresscrazy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058349392/heat-pump-complaint

Believe me, council won't do anything. I'm fighting with them since heat pump was installed (1year ago). It's just ridiculous! My bills is around € 600 to €700 for 2 months( last year for July/August with heating off, my bill was €578),before my bills was max 240 euros winter time. Neighbors having problems too.The installers said that I was unlucky with my heat pump(LOL), I have no heat day time, only at night. Thermostat is not responding. Rang council engineer (who is over this project) so many times daily, but he refused to answer my calls and when finally he answered on a fifth day, he told me that I should not ring as he is not going to answer. I contacted my solicitor, with his help, some technician came( last February) to investigate a heat pump. I was told that my heat pump is running 100%, but Thermostat is a problem, and that he will issue a report. Since first week of February didn't hear anything from council. Since they installed the heat pump (June 2023) it's only a stress 24/7. I'm on disability myself, have other bills to pay and provide food on the table , all other bills paid up to date, food is on the table, but can't afford to pay full electricity bill, paying what I can. It's crazy. I'm so sorry I agreed with this crap!

stresscrazy

Forgot to say... my heatpump was running 24/7, but there was no heat in the radiators. I started writing notes in my diary book about leak, when was heat on, when wasn't, when was crazy noise from thermostat…name it. It's just a complete mess and I left to deal with hight bills. I'm with Electric ireland and I spoke to them, and they told me that they see that there is a problem with heatpump system. They back dated my bills before heatpump installation and they did see a massive increase in electricity usage since then.They advised me to contact council,but there I'm today and no sign from council. Council Don't Care About Us!!!

conor_mc

@stresscrazy @ggg99ggg can I ask which council areas you are in?

Heat pump disasters are almost always a failure of system design or system commissioning. Neither of you have mentioned the #1 target of heat pump design, which is Coefficient of Performance, or COP. That immediately indicates to me that your system hasn’t been commissioned correctly, because commissioning a HP system correctly simply must include proper user training.