Redress from the taxpayer. What did we do?!

veryangryman

Why every time that there is some landmark ruling do the government do the we're sorry here's alot of taxpayer money card. And get away with it.

Why are the people actually responsible not footing the bill? Johnny taxpayer is a mug

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058348223/redress-from-the-taxpayer-what-did-we-do

I am guessing you are partially referencing the latest stardust inquiry? Have the costs of the recent inquiry even been announced? I read it was over a million before it even started...not to mention the previous inquiries and reports. Oh plus the manager owner getting over 500k of a payout. Next up likely another redress scheme, madness.

Augme

The people responsible were employed by the State, therefore the State is responsible for their decisions.

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047526#Comment_122047526

What people responsible were employed by the state?

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047537#Comment_122047537

Possibly the people who came up with the original conclusion of arson which was a scandal really.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047537#Comment_122047537

The judge who, in 1981, determined the cause of the fire was arson.

lmk123

oh right sorry, I thought Augme was referring to starting the fire or chaining the doors shut

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058348223/redress-from-the-taxpayer-what-did-we-do

We are the State.

If wrong is done in our name it is just that we provide redress.

It may be possible in some cases to ensure that any individual who has done wrong is made to contribute to costs.

AMKC

How can anyone with an ounce of empathy begrudge the stardust familys a payout? The last 43 years of their lives have been nothing but stress and hell. Now that they finally have some closure maybe they can start to live and enjoy life.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047820#Comment_122047820

I was 7 then. I wasn't there. I didnt live in Dublin. I actually had nothing at all to do with it.

It's very sad. But lots of things ate sad.

Nobody paid me or anyone in my extended family when two relatives, one a toddler, were murdered by a madman who the state let wander about because they couldn't be bothered to lock the fxxcker up.

Now tell me why I should pay for their loss.

Couldn't maybe the cnuts who did it pay? It seems they have enough property and resources including the half a million we already gave them 40 years ago...

Packrat

Who did the bigger wrong? The judge who wronged the taxpayers by giving a half a million of our money to the perpetrators of the unlawful killing or those same bastards who chained the doors shut and murdered all those young people?

Either way, the taxpaying donkey gets his hole opened again despite having nothing to do with it.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058348223/redress-from-the-taxpayer-what-did-we-do

if you are talking about stardust, i tend to agree.

on the base level there was a fire in club, people died.

i'm unsure why the government needs to issue an official apology for that.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048049#Comment_122048049

That's not what the apology will be for.

The apology will be for how the State treated the victims and their families, including the nasty smears that the fire had been started deliberately

Cluedo Monopoly

The owner of the Stardust got 500,000 Irish punts when the inquest declared incorrectly that the fire was caused by arson.

Quantum Erasure

There's already been compensation in the 80s, a total of £10.4 million paid out to 823 people

I see sheep

OP username apt.

McGrath5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048363#Comment_122048363

A tiny sum. Those families deserve redress from the State for how they were treated in the 43 years since.

Boggles

Meh Taxes!!!!

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048049#Comment_122048049

The apology is not for the fire

toothy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058348223/redress-from-the-taxpayer-what-did-we-do

Ultimately the government and we are responsible. When we take a cut via taxes and impose regulations and rules we may not be directly responsible but become culpable.

It's important that wider society accepts responsibility for things it's involved in because without that there is no society.

Dammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047553#Comment_122047553

Ruth Coppinger tweeted late last week that the owners all had links with FF… Charles Haughty in particular.

Now go check on the Judge who said it was most probably arson… Another, linked with FF.

That judgement allowed the Butterlys claim compensation from the State…

https://www.thejournal.ie/stardust-inquiries-6359200-Apr2024/

toothy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048036#Comment_122048036

Nobody is defending unlawful or immoral acts. People are just trying to right the pain and wrongs they can.

Tenzor07

The relatives (and survivors) of the 48 deserve any form of compensation due to them for this tragic event 43 years ago.

They're not currently seeking redress, but justice and the recent ruling gives the survivors and relatives some peace at last.

Anyone who feels that they're paying for the redress through taxation well don't worry, it's likely to be 0.0000000000001cent so get over yourselves.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048603#Comment_122048603

Where did i say that anyone was defending unlawful or immoral acts? I didn't. That's where.

Right the wrong; ok, then bankrupt the family who owned it and their heirs who benefitted financially from the immoral and unlawful acts.

I nor anyone else paying taxes var that family didn't do anything and shouldn't be made to pay for it.

It's a more general point about public compensation for the crimes of private entities or individuals. The mica case on Donegal springs to mind. Again, i nor probably you didn't scam anyone with substandard materials, but we must pay for it. Lunacy.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048660#Comment_122048660

You keep ignoring the state's effective role in covering it up. The state made rulings about the case and as a result, families are only getting closure after 40 years.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048595#Comment_122048595

Yep, it's no surprise to see FF neck deep i nprotecting their dodgy mates. It's always been a core function of the party and I very much doubt anything has changed.

Russman

I think ultimately the government have decided to pay something. Presumably for several reasons from, I dunno, potential legal exposure to old fashioned politics in the run up to an election. They act on our behalf and we can turf them out at an election. We don't, nor IMO should we, as individuals, get to decide our taxes will be spent on X but not on Y, it would be a recipe for anarchy. I mean, I get the general point, but you couldn't operate a government/society like that.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048415#Comment_122048415

10m plus in the 80s is not a tiny sum.

It would make more sense if things were focussed on a criminal prosecution.

mrslancaster

The deaths of 48 people (plus the unborn baby of one woman) in that fire was a terrible tragedy. There was a long list of decisions made by the venue owners that contributed to those deaths and while that wasn't the fault of the state, the subsequent tribunals and government reports seemed more concerned with the cause of the fire instead of the devastating outcome. If the initial inquest had reached the same verdict as this inquest, it's likely the families would not have continued with their campaign for accountability. An apology and some form of redress is the right thing imo.

Nermal

Under what scheme did the owner receive compensation? Are uninsured victims of arson usually compensated by the State?

beggars_bush

The families were denied justice by the justice system, run by the state

McGrath5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049303#Comment_122049303

It is when you consider it was divided amongst the families of the 48.

Let's hope they are properly compensated for their loss and trauma experienced over 4 decades.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048625#Comment_122048625

It is totally about money. Interesting how language changes to try and obscure this, used be compensation,now redress.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049465#Comment_122049465

Why would they not rather focus on a criminal conviction? What is more money being given to them going to resolve? This is after millions already paid out in compensation and multiple tribunals etc.

Bigmac1euro

This thread is digusting. I hope the families get millions and millions and millions.

PmMeUrDogs

Genuinely shocked at the comments about why should the state pay redress?

Seriously? It's the state's employee's failings that led to it taking 43 years for some kind of justice. It's the state's employee's failings that led to Butterly receiving an enormous payout.

The state have repeatedly failed these people for 43 years, and the paltry 7500 pounds per dead child the parents received was for that - their death.

Now they deserve redress for the disgusting treatment they've received for over 40 years in their search for the truth.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049590#Comment_122049590

..

veryangryman

Very take-take from the state in my experience. This just adds more to it.

Y'know you can feel that someone deserves compensation without it needing to come from your own pocket. But no, anyone who questions throwing money on any unfortunate case (there are plenty, stardust is one of many disgraces) is "awful and disgraceful".

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052566#Comment_122052566

…what in gods name are you rambling on about?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048036#Comment_122048036

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/30dc8-criminal-injuries-compensation-scheme/?referrer=https://www.gov.ie/en/service/4c3234-criminal-injuries-compensation-scheme/ compensation for victims paid by the state

Redress from the tax payer to victims of crimes If you prefer. (including murders)