HEO to AO HR

average hero

Hi all,

I am a HEO currently working in a small public service organisation. I work in customer service. I like my job and my manager is nice/good but I am rushed off my feet most days. I have said that I think we need more staff but it doesn't seem to be coming.

My job would be perfect if it were a little bit less busy and the HEO pay scales allowed me to buy a house in Dublin but we know how that is for everyone. There are no politics in my job and it is quite pleasant. I am somewhat ambitious however.

I applied for an AO position in the Civil Service and hope to be called for interview.

My questions are:

1. Is being an AO in the Civil Service a hectic role? Is there much pressure in it?
2. Is it a 'good' role?
3. If you were a HEO, would you move across to the AO scheme?
4. Does anyone have any experience in HR in the Civil Service?

Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate it.

Ted222

A lot depends on the department within the CS you would be assigned to. Finance and Public Expenditure would probably have more going for them, particularly if you’re ambitious. The next grade up (Assistant Principal) would be paid at the higher scale - about 10% more than the standard.

In answer to your questions

1. Could be very busy depending on where you’re assigned. It’s a graduate entry level job though so it wouldn’t be assumed you’d have all the answers.
2. It’s probably better than HEO. The interpretation would be that you’re a graduate on the up rather than a “lifer” who’s made to middle management. Though both are equally eligible to compete for promotion.
3. It would normally be expected that HEOs would go for AP. AO would be seen as more of a lateral move. Long term it might be better though depending on where you’re assigned.
4. I worked in HR so have seen it all. It depends which department you’re going into. Some are better than others.

billyhead

Aos used to be considered a primarily policy based role and Heos management role. It's no longer the case and both grades are interchangeable.

average hero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040018#Comment_122040018

Thank you so much to you for your response.

Can I ask you please - how do you know that the AP role would be higher scales please? Aren't they standard and higher scale also?

Thank you once again.

sohara00

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058347647/heo-to-ao-hr

They're literally the same job. AO and HEO are equal, AO just means you had a degree and came in that way and they start on way lower pay when they come in externally, like shockingly low for a middle management position

Highlighter75

I would always choose HEO over AO. AOs are general dogs bodies who are expected to sweat blood for inferior money.

Embrace the HEO in you.

glucksmam17

If you're already on the HEO payscale and not starting at the bottom of AO then I would say make the move across. AO is still seen as more of a policy focused role (with HEO theoretically more operational- I know in reality lots of HEOs and AOs do similar work) which is of value of you want to progress further. Typically speaking AO role will offer more opportunities for doing senior management type work and stand to you for progression. AOs are typically worked hard but again if you're looking to move up in the near term it will likely offer more examples to cite in interview.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122043955#Comment_122043955

sorry for the delay in responding. Hadn’t noticed the question.

APs and POs in the Departments I mentioned are all pitched at the higher scale - typically about 10% more than their counterparts in other government departments.

While these other departments would typically have some APs and POs on the higher scale, they would be the exception rather than the norm.

XPaladocious

Sorry to hijack the thread but just wondering - is it also allowed to move from AO to HEO? I heard that it is not possible so presumed moving from HEO to AO would also not be possible?

XPaladocious

And also, although I can see from comments that AO and HEO are often interchangeable. How can one go about discovering if they prefer more policy based work or people management based? I've had some experience in management but none in policy..

hungerjames

Generally speaking current AOs and HEOs are not permitted to apply in competition booklets, you would have to check.

As others pointed out, if you were an EO and could only pick one, most people would see HEO as more attractive due to the salary difference involved for broadly similar work, but as you're a sitting HEO you wouldn't have that issue.

I would imagine the campaign booklet probably disqualifies you though, as most do, so check that first before putting together a big application that won't come to anything.

Apply for mobility for a lateral transfer at HEO level also just to increase your options, you will be eligible to move at the two year mark once they reach your number in the queue.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535681#Comment_122535681

Nothing stopping you from moving in an open competition.

countyireland12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040056#Comment_122040056

From what I see, it has not chanaged at all, most AOs still work in policy and most HEOs still work in operational roles. There are exceptions of course, but I disagree they are one and the same grade with the same opportunities, etc.

XPaladocious

Thanks for clarifying!

FunkyChicken24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536477#Comment_122536477

From what I have seen in my department, there is a little bit of a difference generally speaking, in that the HEOs are more operational and AOs more policy but it also depends on the unit and the team within the unit. I think it is more likely that an AO will be placed in a more policy oriented role however I know of at least one AO who was asked what they preferred when being offered a position and were given a more operational role, plus a HEO who is in a policy role so it isn't as cut and dried however some of the old norms are still there. Pay would be the biggest issue for me if I was choosing. You can still get promoted to AP from HEO so I think that would be the deciding factor for me but then I am older and have less time to piss about on a bad wage