Best Ketchup

Tim Robbins

Hi,

Looking at some less dangerous ketchup.

I was looking at the Happy Pear ketchup —> https://thehappypear.ie/tomato-ketchup/

Then I compared it to the supervalue one:

https://shop.supervalu.ie/sm/pickup/rsid/76/product/supervalu-tomato-ketchup-470-g-id-1077096001

Slightly higher saturated fat, slightly lower sugar. So thinking what's the deal? Would have thought it would have better?
Now if we go to Aldi we can see this for a third the price and has a lot less sugar: https://groceries.aldi.ie/en-GB/p-tomato-ketchup50-less-salt-sugar-535g-bramwells/4061459300239

So if you are not going to make your own ketchup what's the best to buy?

Mellor

I think you need to really get a better understanding of nutrition.

Why are you looking at saturated fat? Sat fat makes no difference to weightloss, none. And even if it did, there is 0.015g per serve, that is unbelievably tiny.

The difference between the normal one and the sugar removed one is 7 cals. Basically nothing, You'd need to go through 30 bottles for that to equate to 1kg of body fat. And if you are going through ketchup like that, it's a sign your diet if full of bad choices.
You'd choose the latter if you were doing keto, but otherwise pick the one that tastes better. Like the butter, mayo (you don't need a thread per condiment btw) you'll use less of the fuller flavoured ones.

If you had a double squirt of ketchup 3 time a day. That's >100 calories. and probably on 3% of your diet. To loose weight you need to look at the 97%.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033115#Comment_122033115

Thanks.

I need to loose weight, lower cholesterol and deal with fatty liver.

Already, I don't really drink and go to gym 2 - 3 times per week.

I have a few bad eating habits e.g. crisps, chocolate and eating lots of bread particularly after 6.00.

I have wiped all of them out and also bought a few health cook books which have very little red meat and tend to get you eating more quinoa, lentils, fish, tofu and white meat.

I was just looking for other wins. It can be really difficult to understand. Especially Irish supermarkets and Irish health food shops.

Any help appreciated.

Peregrinus

So far as calories, carbs, proteins or fat are concerned, the quantity of ketchup you eat likely forms such a tiny part of your aggregate nutrition intake that the distinction between the best ketchup and the worst ketchup is almost certainly too trivial to worry about.

I'd be more concerned about the salt. There's not much to choose between these two ketchups as far as salt content is concerned — which is to say, they're both very salty, as pretty much all ketchups will be. What Supervalu regards as a standard serve of their ketchup, 15g, contains about 1/8th of your recommended daily intake of salt from all sources.

As regards your priorities of weight loss and cholesterol, salt is neither here nor there (unless food being salted encourages you to eat more of it, which obviously can be relevant to weight control. But the salt in itself is not fattening.)

But, as regards fatty liver, salt is one of the things you want to minimise. And it can be hard to minimise salt, especially if your diet contains a fair amount of processed food.

Sadly, you won't be able to minimise salt by choosing one of these ketchups over the other. If you want to control your salt intake, you can cut out ketchup altogether, or you can hunt down salt-free ketchup, which does exist.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033293#Comment_122033293

Those changes all sound good in general. But the only way to make significant change to your diet is to look at it overall. Ketchup is at best 1% of your intake. Almost insignificant.
I appreciate that you’re trying to make the big changes too. But there the questions you should be asking. What cuts if meat are best, what dinners, etc. Or better yet, post up a honest typical days eating and get some useful feedback.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033381#Comment_122033381

How are you working out it’s 1/8th of the recommended intake of salt? There salt obviously, but it has less than a 1/4 of a gram. I make that to be ~5% of RDA. That’s not an issue if the rest of your diet is in check - abd if it’s not in check, there likely sources of salt to fix first.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034092#Comment_122034092

Currently:

Breakfast example(s) would be:

• granola with greek yogurt or honey
• or two slices of brown slice pan toasted with peanut butter and bananna's
• or porridge with chia seeds, pumkin seeds and honey
• or overnight oats with seeds, nuts, honey and some greek yogurt
• weekend tread: fried eggs, avocado, vegetarian pudding, maybe on sausage

Lunch

• Sandwich:
  • turkey or chicken slices, brown bread, olive oil, green leaves (rocket, spinach, lettuce)
  • salmon or tuna once a week
  • cheese: in this order: cottage, mozarella, cheddar, parmesan, feta. Usually daily.
  • avocado - twice a week.
• Or else I eat left overs from night before.

Dinner:

• White meat (3 - 4 nights) or Fish (1 - 2 nights) or Tofu (1 night) or Red meat (max 2 nights) or or chickpeas (one night) or beans (blackbean)
• Buckwheat or Quina or Sweet Potato or potato or Lentils (green / rd). Sometimes pasta or white rice.
• Veg from onions, peppers, green leaves mainly (rocket, spinach, lettuce), carrots
• various spices, green herbs and garlic for flavour

Weekend treat:

• Something like a greek nan bread with tomato puree, onions, peppers, cheese and pepperoni.
• Eat flapjacks if someone else in family makes them - can't help it

Other

• Nuts in various meals or snacks: walnuts / pecan / cashew
• I get my 5 day most days.
• Other veg: radish or tomota prob twice a week
• Fruit: 2 - 3 a day from: apple, bananas, berries.
• Protein bull sh&t bar from shop
• Given up sweets.

Mellor

Quick response as I'm about to head, but can provide more detail or answer any questions later.

Breakfast: A little carb heavy and lacking protein for me. Ok if you are active early and get protein later. But balance would be better. The worst option there is likely the granola: It's energy dense, and honey is natural but still essentially sugar.

Lunch: Probably not the worst sandwich. But sliced meat is unlike to be great quality. Not a lot of protein. Chunks of roast chicken would be better. Go easy with oils, mayos, butter. Don't be afraid to ditch the bread, and double the roast chicken and salad.

Dinner: Nothing really wrong there. But portion size is key. The meat should be about 150-200g. The carb soruce should be the same or less (cooked weight for rice and pasta). More veggies less pasta, rice, grains etc.
Red meat is not inherrently bad. Lean steak or mince would be a better option that chicken pieces or pork belly.

Weekend Treats: Those are fine in moderation.

Others: Fine. Except for the nuts. A sensible portion of nuts is boringly tiny. They are so energy dense that its better to avoid. Fruit is fine.

It all looks good. Ultimately it will come down to portion size. Could be enough for steady loss, or maintaining weight if you're eating enough. A small scale putting a weeks of eating into my fitness pal is a good way to assess portion size.

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033293#Comment_122033293

How long have you been doing all the good stuff that you've outlined? (As in the exercise and healthier food choices)

Kingslayer

If you have the time to make your own ketchup it really is nicer than any of the shop stuff.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034194#Comment_122034194

RDA is 2,000 mg; 250 mg is one-eighth of that.

Agree that if you're trying to reduce salt intake, you'll need to do a lot more than just cut out ketchup. But ketchup is very salt-heavy. Plus, using a salt-heavy relish like ketchup reinforces and stimulates your appetite for salted food generally, which makes it more difficult to avoid other salt sources. A better strategy might be to replace the ketchup with an entirely different condiment.

Looking at the OP's description of his diet, there's really nothing there to which ketchup would need to be added, is there?

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035096#Comment_122035096

What tips do you have for breakfast? Egg? This morning I threw in two slices of toast after the oats and put cottage cheese on them.

Peregrinus

Eggs are the way to go, for me anyway. High in protein; also a high satiety factor — you feel full after eating eggs. Cup of tea, couple of poached eggs on wholemeal toast, and you're grand 'til lunchtime.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036900#Comment_122036900

You are confusing salt and sodium. RDA is 2g of sodium, which is 5g of salt. 250mg is 1/20 or 5%, not 1/8.

I don’t think I’d consider ketchup to be problematical high in salt. much lower than say soy sauce, teriyaki, oyster/fish sauce.

It’s critical to have some salt. 2g of salt is about the minimum intake we need, not a limit. There wouldn’t be much in the above. So would worry too much about a little ketchup with a sausage or on a sandwich.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037398#Comment_122037398

Personally I tend to be in the go so grab a protein shake and a coffee. Maybe an oat/protein bar if I’ve a intense gym day planned.

But if I’m having breakfast. I’ll have eggs often. Poached, scrambled, fried. All the sane really. On some thin toast, maybe with a sausage or two in the air fryer. And maybe some ketchup 😉.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038020#Comment_122038020

How often do you put the suasage in the air fryer? That doesn't sound great in my humble opinion

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038397#Comment_122038397

Maybe a day midweek if I WFH or on Saturday. Maybe not at all some weeks. It’s not an issue if you are buying decent quality, and pay attention to nutritional data.

Based on your posts above, seems your impression of nutrition is very much on tabloid or glossy magazine type advice. Demonising saturated fat, overfocused on sugar instead of energy, healthy or unhealthy based on optics (red meat bad, brown bread good).

Using the sausage as an example. Why do you think that sounds not great? Does avocado on brown bread sound “healthier”? The nutritional data might surprise you.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122041182#Comment_122041182

I don't have a clue, I admit it and happy to learn. There's a huge amount of BS out there, incredible.

One thing that is confusing me. The Dr said ok pull back on the smoothies, the carbs etc.

I'm thinking if you have a smoothie with just greek yogurt and some fruit, how could that be that bad?

ice - cream yes. Get that.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050089#Comment_122050089

Smoothies get lots of sugar (fructose) into your blood stream quickly with little to no fibre involved, "free sugar"

Raw fruit is much better for you.

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050147#Comment_122050147

Fiber does not magically disappear from fruit just because it has been blended. All blending does is turn fruit from solid to liquid. The nutrients are the same.

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050089#Comment_122050089

Given that you need to lose weight, your doctor could be recommending to avoid the smoothies as a form of calorie control.

Minimising liquid calories is generally a good approach for weight loss. While the ingredients in smoothies are healthy, they allow you to take in a lot of calories long before you'd start to feel full. I recommend them to clients who are trying to gain weight for this very reason.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050089#Comment_122050089

There's a massive amount BS out there. It's all tied up in trends, optics and marketing. It's why I mentioned glossy mags and tabloids, as they are the biggest peddlers of that stuff.

Sausages get associated with the dirty big fry. But if get with ones decent protein content, with two eggs and a piece of bread. It's a pretty balanced low cal breakfast.
Avocado on toast is prob similar cals. Low protein and much higher fat than the "fry" above.
A bowl of muesli, again similar. All carbs/sugar. No protein or fat.

The one that is most likely to be demonised is likely the most balanced. I'm not suggest it everyday, but I am suggesting its better than the other two options that tick the "healthy" box.

Smoothies are a great way to get a complete meal in 60 seconds. But you have to remember it is a full meal, not a health drink. I do smoothies if I'm rushing out the door. If you are not rushing, I don't see the point. And certain don't add one to your regular breakfast increase you're 5-a-day. As you're also increased your calories.
Again, if you are going to use them in a rush, keep the carbs vrs protein in balance.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050147#Comment_122050147

Why would raw fruit be any better for you? Same sugar content. Same fibre content.

I doubt the difference in digestion time is significant. 25mins vrs 30mins type of thing.

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050147#Comment_122050147

I think you are making a very small mistake but one that is quite common. You are mixing up "smoothies" with "juices". So what you say above is entirely correct - but you are saying it about the wrong thing.

With smoothies you are still getting the entire fruit. Fibre and all. Sometimes more fibre in fact because many people like myself having a smoothie would throw in something like a stick of celery to the mix. Or you would put in things you otherwise would throw away if you were eating the fruit straight. You know for example when you peel a banana and between the skin and the banana is those long "strings" that people pull off and throw away? They go in my smoothies happily. As does the skin from kiwis for example which many people do not eat.

What I suspect you are thinking of - quite rightly - is juicing. There you are taking out the juice and removing much of the "Flesh" of the fruit. Which means you are getting less fibre and also means you need more fruit to satiate yourself. I have rarely seen someone sit down and eat 5 oranges straight. Usually 1 is enough. But juice them and you can bang back 5 or 10 oranges in a single sitting and still be wondering how long it is until lunch.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051743#Comment_122051743

I am someone who occasionally likes to take a good smoothie. Mostly because I like the taste frankly rather than it being a specific dietry choice. And often I have one when I want to take some supplments that I do not particularly enjoy taking straight. So if I am having a smoothie you would likely find me adding my creatine, premethylated vitamins, liquid d3/k2, and a few other things into it. Just takes the hassel out of taking them any other way.

But as you say I would tend to do things that make the smoothie feel more "filling" so that it becomes a meal in itself and not a supplementary intake to other meals. So the full flesh of every fruit would go in. Sometimes a raw egg. Sometimes a small quantity of flax or other seeds, spirulina seaweed, Chia and so on. Frozen Spinach is common for me. Often a good smoothie for me would entirely replace the breakfast AND lunch I would otherwise have had on that day.

So really it comes down to what you put in them. You use them for weight gain. They can just as easily be used for weight loss. And when I am looking to lose weight for a Jujitsu competition or something - a combination of smoothies and an otherwise full on carnivore only diet for the rest of the day - is what I have found works for me and my individual body systems both in terms of the fastest weight loss and my feeling powerful, flexible, alive, focused, satiated and optimised.

In fact were it not for the fact I miss all the other foods out there - I sometimes wonder why I am not on that diet 100% of the year :) It's the diet that makes me feel the best by literally every measure. I just love all the other food life has to offer too much to stick to that diet full time. So I use that diet for competition or for a "cleanse" when I feel my well being is slipping. But I know other atheletes and fighters who would diet and bloat if they used my diet.

So its defnitely a YMMV thing.

GreeBo

The fibre within smoothies is already broken down for you by the act of blending, sure its still there, but its liquidised so it changes how it will be absorbed into your blood stream. If you eat raw/whole fruit not all of the sugar will be released/absorbed and it will be done more slowly.

Thats the theory anyway!

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317388#risks

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/what-to-drink-with-diabetes/fruit-juices-and-smoothies#avoid

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/5-a-day/smoothies

https://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/healthy-eating/you-cant-ignore-the-sugar-content-this-is-how-your-body-digests-juices-smoothies-and-fruit/35622955.html

Dial Hard

Smoothies > juice, for sure, but a lot of dietitians would make the argument that if you wouldn't eat that much fruit in one sitting - and let's face it, most people wouldn't - then you shouldn't be drinking it either.

The length of time it takes to eat something (and also whether it requires chewing or not) has a huge impact on satiety. If you had to peel, chew and swallow the amount of fruit and yoghurt that's in an average smoothie, your body would be telling you you're full long, long before you've finished. That generally just doesn't happen with a smoothie, and therefore it's much easier to then go ahead and eat another pile of calories that you don't actually need because you don't feel full.

They're not the demon drink some people make out by any means, but I do think they can probably be a bit tricky for people who haven't quite learned the basics of nutrition, bioavailability of calories, understanding true hunger etc. yet.

taxAHcruel

Hmmm interesting to know. I personally would not be putting more fruit in than I would eat in a single sitting. The most recent smoothie I would have made had a single banana, a couple cubes of frozen spinach, a few cubes of frozen pineapple, and a stick of celery. And it certainly leaves me feeling full to the point I happily skip breakfast and lunch. I can't imagine being able to stomach an over abundance of fruit or force that much down my gullet :)

If some people are putting much larger quantities in and are drinking more fruit than they might be capable of eating straight - then you guys certainly have more of a point than I initially gave credit for. I just haven't seen anyone do that myself and any smoothies I have seen created had a more than moderate portion control in play.

Funny we got to this from a discussion of Ketchup! But anyway one recent smoothie I made just to give an example was:

• 1/4 cup unsweetened "white" almond milk
• 1/4 cup unsweetened "roasted" almond milk
• 1/2 cup unsweetened coconut milk
• 1/2 cup unsweetened oat milk
• 1/2 cup full fat dairy milk
• 3 cubes frozen spinach
• 1 Stick Celery
• 1 banana
• Small handful frozen berries mixed
• Generous Squidge of Honey
• 1 spoon chia seeds
• 1/2 spoon flaxseed meal
• 1 teaspoon spirulina powder 
• 2 drops d3 + k2 supplement
• 2 drops premeth Vitamin-B Complex
• 12g Creatine

Which I drank over an hour from 12pm to 1pm as my first meal of the day and I had nothing else until a full carnivore evening meal.

Whatever else one might say about my smoothie I do not think an inordinate amount of fruit or calories was involved :) Though someone on a recent podcast made it clear they would take strong exception to the use of flaxseed. But I do moderate my use of that so I doubt it's an issue.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052950#Comment_122052950

What happens if you drink a smoothie slowly?

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052950#Comment_122052950

Not disputing that smoothies are easier to digest, as it’s essentially pre chewed food. This makes it easier to consume more calories than in its solid form as you simply don’t get full as easily.

The nutritional value of solid and liquid fruit is the same though.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053626#Comment_122053626

Agreed, no argument on the incoming nutritional value, but there is a difference in how your body reacts to those nutrients, depend on the form, which could have an impact on the calorific impact, even if its only tied to satiety.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052997#Comment_122052997

Part of the issue is that its WAY easier to drink more than you could eat, couple that with feeling less satiated from a smoothie vs solid fruit and you end up with more calories going in and being absorbed.