Slatted shed design

Newbie2023

hi all, I’m starting a dairy calf to beef enterprise and I’m looking at putting up a slatted shed and calf house.
I plan on purchasing 35 calves every spring and keeping them to slaughter. I’m looking at early maturing breeds that I can kill at 20 months as heifers & 22 months as steers and I had a few questions. I’d hope to have most finished cattle gone by November of the 2nd year.

• would a 4 bay shed be enough with 16 foot slat and 9 foot tank to fatten cattle and fill with yearlings after?
• What would cost be? Grant spec as I’m eligible to 60%
• What design of calf shed / store would suit well also.
  

Thanks,

mr.stonewall

A lot of variables there in moving cattle out of a shed and then filling with weanlings that are on the ground already. There are so many hidden potholes in the calf to beef system that unless you hit perfection, on so many levels you will be doing very well to have them away by 20-22 months.

Factor a winter like what we have gone through where heavy cattle were housed in early October and weanlings with 3 weeks of them. It would put a shed under pressure. I assume you are part time, there is nothing worst that half in half out in wet weather with cattle when herd in the dark

Having feed space at the front and rear of the pens would be a good option and a 2ft toe space both front and back would really help. This would leave the pen having approx 30m2 of space and would carry approx 15-18 weanlings. Move a similar approach to the the finishing cattle and the pens would be in the 12-15 cattle. It's space to lie down that would be at a premium.

Have you consider another option of doing 2tanks back to back and a narrower slat. And example might be 8ft deep tank with 12ft6 slat. Feed barriers along the length of the shed on both sides A 3 bay version of this would be cheap as you would knock out the back walls of the shed

Newbie2023

Thanks for the feedback. Yes I am part time and I want to make the shed as efficient as possible as I’ll be on my own mostly.
Do you mean like a 6 bay shed with 3 bays back to back? Never considered but it’s definitely an option. I wonder what sort of costs you’d be talking for that?

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971854#Comment_121971854

the link below will tell you what the reference cost will be, in other words you’ll get 60% of that figure back, actual costs might be higher. Have a look on the website there’s some good reading there, I’ve just done a grant application myself for a slatted shed and found the documents helpful anyway.

https://assets.gov.ie/251303/844a04f7-f507-4ea1-ba32-6bb476860ec8.xlsx

Donald Trump

Fair play, but they'll be a long time paying for it if you were depending on them for it.

Usually a good idea though to do these things.

funkey_monkey

If building a tank factor in increased storage capacity beyond the current figures.

Is your land all on one block? If so, and you might consider umbilical spreading at some stage, you'll need additional tank space to thin it out with water. Give yourself a bit more wriggle room.

Do you need handling facilities? Consider roofing it, or having the ability to do so later. Can be used for machinery storage, straw, sick animal requiring isolation or issues with being on slats - especially the finishers.

Have you a hard standing area for the bought in calves?

4 bays (15ft per bay) with 16ft slay, 9ft deep will give a tank of 245m3.

For a winter of 20 weeks, assuming each of the young animals requires 0.15m3/week you'd need 105m3 capacity for your 35 calves.

For your 35 older stock at 0.26m3/week you need 182m3 capacity.

So you are already under capacity for the storage period, assuming they are housed over same period. I wouldn't plan on getting the finishers out as quick as you hope.

Reducing to an intake of 30 will have you at 246m3 (90m3 + 156m3).

Our just build the shed and stock it to suit by trial and error. You'll soon know the limits.

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2016/Beef-Manual-Section8.pdf

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971854#Comment_121971854

Back to back tank. Haven't a foggiest on costing of building at the moment. Remember you can depreciate the tank and slats over 2 years which can be a big help if you are at the higher tax band.

Newbie2023

Yes land is more or less all in 1 block. There is 40 acres around the shed which would be got with umbilical system if needed. I realise the system I had in mind would be very tight and not leave any room for error. If needed I could sell heavier cattle as stores or rear some heifers to take pressure off or try a split Autumn / Spring calf system.

I find it hard to justify the extra shed space for the returns in it. It's a very simple system I would like but with some comfort such as indoor handling facilities etc. Ideally I would like to have the slatted shed and calf shed under the one roof but any Teagasc research advises against this due to contaminated air space. Any one have any experience on this?

SodiumCooled

I wouldn’t build it so you are tight for space from day one, will be a lot more expensive down the line if you find you need more shed space than building a bigger shed now. Go to a 6 bay (or 3 bay back to back double). If you do a double you could leave a layback on one side and have an indoor crush in it plus would leave you even more space for storage or you could straw bed it and keep additional stock there.

Best thing is to price it up and compare how much more it will cost you to do the bigger shed.

Newbie2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973190#Comment_121973190

Yeah I get what you mean. I might looking for a price on a 3 bay double with lie back on both sides. This would give me pens on one side to rear calves and I'd have the other side for crush and storage if needed.

It's hard to get it right but I'll have to go visit some farms and see what works / doesn't work

mr.stonewall

Keep calf rearing separate to the cattle shed. Separate airspace. My calf shed doubles up as a workspace and machinery storage for the rest of the year.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973778#Comment_121973778

As a matter of interest, where do you keep the machinery from February to April?

mr.stonewall

Manoeuvre to a hay shed that is emptying or to the sheltered side of a sheds. Needs must.

Fine Day

The shed you are talking about will be €100k plus vat id say. But include the grant and claim the vat it just leaves you with a gap of 40 or 50k to spend from your own pocket. I did a shed a few years ago while I was a young farmer and it was one of the best decisions I have made. Its unlikely you will have it ready for this winter as you will need to get planning etc as it will be required for the Tams. I think I was about 7 or 8 months waiting between planning and getting grant approval.

Who2

I’m just throwing out the thought here but it be a thought to go with just the main slatted shed and forget about calf rearing for a while.
there are plenty of runners and light stock ram through the marts at what I’d class as better value than rearing them if you are patient.

Newbie2023

Yeah that was roughly the figure I had in my head. I had a look at a shed on AgriLand which is a fine setup also and might suit my set up. It will likely be next year before I begin work as I’ve a lot of fencing and drainage work to get done this year if this weather ever stops..

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/buildings-focus-a-tidy-5-bay-slatted-unit-with-a-lieback-area-in-co-tipperary/

Newbie2023

yeah that will probably be the plan for next year anyhow. If I am to put up a calf shed it will be 2026 at earliest. I will likely put up a machinery shed that can be converted.

older by the day

When ever I'm thinking of doing a bit of building, I talk to my builder. He's 40 years building and have done every type of slatted house. The builder might give some phone numbers of past jobs, you can visit.

If you are sure you want to go calf to beef, then try and find a shed that is done already and talk to the farmers. Its a lot cheaper to learn from other people's mistakes

funkey_monkey

We really should put up a thread for shed designs and hints and tips. Folk can then wade through it and close what they want to use and ignore.

Small thing I'd say is consider placing the drinker somewhere for easy access to clean. Ours are at rear of pen so I have to climb in and scoop them clean. I wonder if you studied it would you might find that drinkers at rear of tank would be more prone to this than at front.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981933#Comment_121981933

A lot depends on the height of the drinker. Most of them are at the front of the pen here. Very little issues with weanlings and heifers. Store and finishing bullocks would often fill one from time to time, but it goes in phases

Excellent idea on the shed thread

pg141

If you get the shed thread going, would some or all of you make an effort throw up maybe the shed you like the best on your farm talk a out what you done right and what you done wrong, what would you change if building it again, wasted money on stuff not needed?? Honestly think like for two weeks just post the above so they are all in the first couple of pages and then if we want to have discussions about them we can quote them and this will be in the back end of the thread just my two cents

Bass Reeves

OP the whole basis of a successful finishing system for a small producer, is buy when they are cheap, sell at the high priced times and keep costs low.

Sheds pay for themselves if used right and if you deprecate them at the high tax rate.

Depending on the cattle type you buy you will get 11-14 in each pen of finishing cattle and 20 ish yearlings. Splitting it into three pens will nearly get you the 35 finishers +35 yearlings again depending on stock bought.

You will want all your finishers hung by mid February to hit the peak price, I do not think slurry storage will be a significant issue. A concrete lie back of 10-15' (cleaned every day with a hand scraper) will get all your yearlings into a single bay and average 12 finishers in each slatted pen. The area at the back of the finishers can be used for a crush an isolation pen etc.

As a matter of interest what is your total land bank

limo_100

hi lads any one know a good man to lay out a shed design have a double shed with 14'6 slats and want to add 15ft lybacks on both sides just want get it marked up and designed properly. want a pen at the back off each pen and then I don't know If I should leave a smaller passage way in this. Also need one calving gate per side and then not sure if I should put a small crush in each side. Any ever being in a similar situation?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982892#Comment_121982892

That shed will cost the bones of 200k to build. Are you in a partnership?..

Newbie2023

yeah that’s the plan to have them finished by then anyhow. Will

Be mainly buying Angus, Hereford or Freisan. Total land bank will be around 50 acres

lmk123

have any of ye built / know anyone that has built a 10 foot deep tank. Is there any bother getting them agitated? Was told by a guy today that it’s impossible to get someone that agitate more than 9 foot

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012188#Comment_122012188

It's possible to get an agitator to be made to any length by the manufacturers, but 99% sold are suitable for tanks of 7-9 ft. If you really have to go 10ft deep it's nearly an aeration job. Another option is simple add an extra bay to the tank and just cover it with slabs instead of slats

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012902#Comment_122012902

f**k, we’ve never had a slatted shed so I didn’t know about that, I don’t think I can change anything now, I have planning and applied for the grant all with a 3M deep tank on the drawings & effluent management plan. Aeration is mental expensive, €16k + VAT. I’ll just have to figure something else out.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012914#Comment_122012914

I regret not putting it in, it’s a massive expense on day 1. You can take a few load out anytime to do a field. Cattle don’t have to be moved for agitation

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012953#Comment_122012953

There is a few issues it uses a bit of power as it needs to be turned on all the time ( even duringtge summer from what I heard) if not they get blocked.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012914#Comment_122012914

I think you can build a tank smaller but not substantially bigger. Rather than an aeration system.just get an 10' agitator and havenit there for your contractor

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012971#Comment_122012971

I’d nearly go 9 foot to be honest if I had to go to the expense of buying an agitator for a 10 foot, I just called a few local contractors, one of them has a 9 foot agitator he reckons it’d agitate a 10 foot tank no bother if there’s some water added, it’s hard to know who to listen to doctors differ and patients die

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012953#Comment_122012953

I know I’d like to have it too but can’t justify / afford it, if you had a few tanks it wouldn’t be as bad, the pump is €10,500 +vat, that’d do a few tanks, just can’t justify it for one 5 bay tank

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013137#Comment_122013137

There’s plenty of lads agitating 9 foot tanks with 7 and 8 foot agitators with no problems so it’s not something I’d be overly worried about.

adne

Anyone experience with slabs over a tank. Whats the life of them. What weight they take. Ive no experience of them and have reservations on their longevity

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122014029#Comment_122014029

Ya I’d say you’re right. Was talking to another contractor a while ago, he said he’s doing a good few 10 foot tanks lately with a 9 foot agitator no bother. I’ve a feeling the farmer that told me yesterday that it couldn’t be done was told that by the lad that was doing the tank for him. The same builder was telling me the same story, his shutters are 9x8 so obviously a 10 foot tank isn’t ideal for him, it’s all making sense now 😂

mr.stonewall

The main problem is if you take out 4 ft out of the tank most agitators won't work as the marine bearing wont the covered. Next step is to put more water into the tank.

Really there is a few options, get a long agitator for yourself or contractor, or aeration. Might be worthwhile putting the pipework of it into the tank, with the long term view of putting an aeration system.

blue5000

It’s going to be a bit harder on the vacuum tank to empty a 10 foot tank as well. Simpler to turn the 8x9 shape so that it is 9 feet deep.

minerleague

What about a sump built into the floor of the tank?, always 9" or so of slurry left in tanks here after emptying

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020025#Comment_122020025

Have it in sheds that were built 40 years ago with 7ft deep tanks. Good and big to get the pipe into. About 4ft x4ft in a 10ft wide tank so it's hard to miss. If any one says use a barrel,forget it as it's next to near impossible to get the pipe into it. Shouldn't be hard for a builder to do and you will only need one in a tank, if doing a new tank make it 6ft x 6ft

The key to working the sump is empty what you can, leave it and come back the following day.

Jb1989

Only left with around 3 inch of slurry on my 8 foot tanks sucking with 1150 Abbey tank. Must be thick if you've 9 inch left.

Omallep2

Have you a fall on the tank to the emptying end?

Jb1989

Don't think so tbh. 2 different 3 bay tanks here both suck down to 3 inch, well mixed and pipe is twisted about the floor any direction to get all sucked out.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027383#Comment_122027383

Would that be a 5 inch pipe on the 1100 Abbey?

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027383#Comment_122027383

Contractor spreads for me so as soon as 6" pipe starts sucking air spreading is finished ! Slurry from other end of tank then flows down and levels off, would normally be thick enough too

Jb1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027856#Comment_122027856

6 inch 👍🏿

Jb1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029597#Comment_122029597

Yea I do my own so can take the time to empty fully unlike yours.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032954#Comment_122032954

Had a contractor a few years ago left 12-16” in the bottom as he’d somewhere to go, tank was full by March. New lad takes as much as possible out leaving 12-18” space when mixing in the spring/summer

international xl

i was wondering does any body have a boumatic streamway 90 or work in one as was thinking of going sequential bailing Thanks in advance