ASTI & TUI members: do you support a merger between both unions?

gaiscioch

This is long overdue. It was always madness that second-level teachers played into successive governments' divide and conquer strategies. Is there any argument in favour of keeping two second-level unions, other than from senior officials in both unions who might fear losing their posts in a merger? Hopefully the greater economies of scale will also reduce our membership fees.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/04/03/teacher-unions-asti-and-tui-announce-survey-of-members-over-possible-merger/

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2024/0403/1441349-asti-convention/

Treppen

Perhaps (explain)

Quite not as clear cut.

TUI won't represent school paid secondary teachers whereas ASTI will.

TUI represents 3rd level. Do they abandon this?

mtoutlemonde

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058344809/asti-tui-members-do-you-support-a-merger-between-both-unions

TUI should continue but for the third level / FE sectors. Secondary teachers should be in ASTI or whatever name they will come up with. No point teachers fighting each othe I have been following both conferences and the same issues being discussed. I have brought this up several times in branch meetings.

Random sample

Perhaps (explain)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970601#Comment_121970601

I agree. There are issues around teachers in private schools and the third level element of tui that need to be addressed before a merger.

jayo76

Perhaps (explain)

I would 100% support a merger based on second level teachers but will 100% say no to a merger that simply incorporates both unions as they stand today

joebloggs32

Yes

TUI will not be cutting their 3rd level membership adrift. The Asti have no reason to fear them. They would account for about 1/8 of a new amalgamated union so no reason to think they would or could dominate. The lines are blurred to as the TUI represents staff in Youth reach, further ed etc so its not that simple to just say secondary only.

One important aspect of an amalgamated union would be gaining a seat at the negotiating table for ICTU. The INTO are currently in situ but they would lose out to the new union.

It would be great to see this become a reality.

2011abc

Yes

Considering how TUI have allowed third level salaries and conditions('lecturer below the bar' status and salary scales maxing out pitifully low ) to be destroyed Id prefer just assimilate their membership into a new 'grand' second level union .But come on, lets face it ,the last two decades have seen the end of unions as we know them .ASTI no better with shocking carry on of senior member in early Noughties and apparent current inability to do anything other than 'express dismay' and attend demonstrations for every conceivable cause except teachers' pay and conditions .Middle class will soon be extinct bar an increasingly small number of very high grade professionals and tradespeople who own their own companies .To anybody who thinks Im over dramatising I will draw your attention to the Wicklow postholder teacher who was made homeless last year .

gaiscioch

Yes

Can the TUI third-level staff not just join IFUT? [ It would appear that not only are second-level teachers divided into two unions at the moment, but third-level teachers are also.

rainbowtrout

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995936#Comment_121995936

I would prefer to see two separate unions for second level and third level. Third level is a very different beast. I'm in TUI (ETB school), and they represent quite a range of teaching professionals, and sometimes I feel that maybe they have to spread themselves too thinly with representation at second level, further education and third level, and there's such a wide variety of sectors within second level including prisons, youthreach etc.

rainbowtrout

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992313#Comment_121992313

It can very very difficult to listen to newer teachers say that they should join the union etc etc, but then balk when they are told about the membership fee, and they decide it's too expensive. There's such a disconnect when they are happy to take the pay rise, but not consider who is negotiating that for them. And that's only one aspect of union membership.

gaiscioch

Yes

All ASTI and TUI members should have a copy of the survey/vote in their email now. It takes about 30 seconds to answer it/vote.

‌ ‌The Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland (ASTI) and the Teachers’ Union of Ireland (TUI) have held longstanding policy positions regarding the prospect of forming an amalgamated union. As per the motions passed at both the ASTI and the TUI’s Annual Convention/Congress on teacher unity, the TUI and the ASTI have been engaging in extensive discussions around the prospect of unification. Both unions have engaged constructively and in good faith. A potential structure for a new education union has been considered over the course of these meetings. There remains a considerable amount of work to be done. The aim is to create a new union that at its heart is member focussed. It must both acknowledge and respect the traditions of each Union, while also creating a new Union that is able to face the challenges of today’s industrial relations landscape. The merging of two large unions is not a simple process and whilst a definitive deadline for the end of these discussions is impossible to predict, at the current pace, it is hoped to have an outcome that can be presented to the executive structures and the membership of the TUI and the ASTI within the 2023/24 academic year. This might constitute a blueprint for a process that, if accepted by the membership of both unions, could lead to eventual amalgamation. Any outcome that emerges from these discussions will require comprehensive and substantial membership consultation within both unions and will ultimately be decided upon in ballots of members. The purpose of this brief survey is to gauge the opinion of members from both unions around unification, and to see if members would like the amalgamation discussions to continue into the next phase of the process, based on the following agreed principles, as this will require an extensive amount of work and resources. Agreed principles emerging from the discussions. A new Union would be formed comprising all categories of the current membership of both unions who work within the second level, further education, and training, and third level education sector. (The TUI has members working in second-level, further education and third level while ASTI has members in second level only). All sectors will be accommodated, and all members should feel fully incorporated into this new structure without any sense of loss of identity. Emeritus/Retired members: It is the agreed intention to accord emeritus/retired members all the rights and privileges of all members of the amalgamated union, subject to legal constraints and the requirements of the Registrar of Friendly Societies. Note: The Registrar of Friendly Societies is responsible for the assessment and registration of applications and any subsequent amendment of rules which Trade Unions are obliged to submit to the Registrar and to ensure that statutory obligations are met. Both parties are committed to devising a new structure that respects the traditional decision-making processes of both the ASTI and the TUI while ensuring an efficient and fit for purpose model. ‌ The survey will close at 18.00 on the 25th April 2024. ‌ ‌Yours sincerely,‌ ‌ ‌The Mi-Voice Voting Team ‌‌On behalf of the Teachers' Union of Ireland and the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland

Technical Support ‌ You can also access the survey by visiting www.mi-vote.com/secure/tuiastisurvey and entering your unique code, which is: 4264026415 ‌ ‌Please note that the above code is unique to you and can only be used to participate in the survey once, so please do not share this email with anyone else.  ‌ ‌If you require any technical assistance, please contact Mi-Voice Support at support@mi-voice.com. Mi-Voice Support are available between 09:00 and 17:00, Monday to Friday.

Treppen

Perhaps (explain)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996450#Comment_121996450

I think the issue may be that further education often takes place in the same school with the same principal as the second level.

Anyhow... Got an email from ASTI TODAY.

Dear xxxxxxx
‌
‌The Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland (ASTI) and the Teachers’ Union of Ireland (TUI) have held longstanding policy positions regarding the prospect of forming an amalgamated union.

As per the motions passed at both the ASTI and the TUI’s Annual Convention/Congress on teacher unity, the TUI and the ASTI have been engaging in extensive discussions around the prospect of unification. Both unions have engaged constructively and in good faith. A potential structure for a new education union has been considered over the course of these meetings. There remains a considerable amount of work to be done.

The aim is to create a new union that at its heart is member focussed. It must both acknowledge and respect the traditions of each Union, while also creating a new Union that is able to face the challenges of today’s industrial relations landscape.

The merging of two large unions is not a simple process and whilst a definitive deadline for the end of these discussions is impossible to predict, at the current pace, it is hoped to have an outcome that can be presented to the executive structures and the membership of the TUI and the ASTI within the 2023/24 academic year. This might constitute a blueprint for a process that, if accepted by the membership of both unions, could lead to eventual amalgamation.

Any outcome that emerges from these discussions will require comprehensive and substantial membership consultation within both unions and will ultimately be decided upon in ballots of members.

The purpose of this brief survey is to gauge the opinion of members from both unions around unification, and to see if members would like the amalgamation discussions to continue into the next phase of the process, based on the following agreed principles, as this will require an extensive amount of work and resources.

Agreed principles emerging from the discussions.

A new Union would be formed comprising all categories of the current membership of both unions who work within the second level, further education, and training, and third level education sector. (The TUI has members working in second-level, further education and third level while ASTI has members in second level only). All sectors will be accommodated, and all members should feel fully incorporated into this new structure without any sense of loss of identity.

Emeritus/Retired members:

It is the agreed intention to accord emeritus/retired members all the rights and privileges of all members of the amalgamated union, subject to legal constraints and the requirements of the Registrar of Friendly Societies.

Note: The Registrar of Friendly Societies is responsible for the assessment and registration of applications and any subsequent amendment of rules which Trade Unions are obliged to submit to the Registrar and to ensure that statutory obligations are met.

Both parties are committed to devising a new structure that respects the traditional decision-making processes of both the ASTI and the TUI while ensuring an efficient and fit for purpose model.
‌
The survey will close at 18.00 on the 25th April 2024.
‌
‌Yours sincerely,‌
‌
‌The Mi-Voice Voting Team
‌‌On behalf of the Teachers' Union of Ireland and the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland

There's a survey link after

rainbowtrout

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002122#Comment_122002122

Ya, I got that email too.

Further education aligns closer with second level education, but third level is a different ball game in my opinion.

Treppen

Perhaps (explain)

I wonder will it cause a watering down of ASTIs propensity for strike balloting.

Bobtheman

Id quit the asti if it occurred.

The TUI is worse than the asti. The asti is full of cowards who **** themselves over striking beyond 2 days. The asti has a conservative rural element who roll over too quickly.

The TUI just automatically roll over.

You might say we should just amalgamate given the grand old Duke of York strategy of the asti but it's like asking a man marooned on an island on his own would he like to sleep with the monkey. No way

spurious

Did we not go through all this in the past - when was it? The 80s? Same arguments then too.

2011abc

Yes

Certainly did in early(and late?!) Noughties

Bobtheman

The asti needs to grow a pair and go on a proper strike when it has serious concerns.

The upcoming destruction of the LC would be an issue.

But if that doesn't happen then we might as well join back stabbing TUI.

And before the moderators get upset. The TUI took in departing Asti members during a dispute. They were fined for it.

ngunners

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034704#Comment_122034704

Got a text about a survey saying to check spam folder but no sign of any email. Anybody else not receive the correspondance by email? Is there a link to the survey or do I need to get on to the union (ASTI)? Thanks.

Treppen

Perhaps (explain)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039846#Comment_122039846

Survey is tied to your membership number

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013534#Comment_122013534

not anymore now with tertiary integration degrees further ed. teachers are lecturing on university degree programmes

joebloggs32

Yes

Results are in.

82% of TUI and 85% of ASTI in favour. Thats a stong mandate to push ahead and get down to working out how a merger would work.

Hopefully it can be done soon as we need unity ahead of the reforms coming at us in the revised Leaving Cert.