Next EV but some complications...

silver_sky

Looking at my next car (EV) and not entirely sure what to go for. I had a Model 3 up til early this year but it had to go due to unrelated reasons.

Now, I'm looking at buying another EV. I currently have home charging, but expect to be back to public charging only in the next 6 months or so. I'm considering the purchase with that in mind. Looking for CCS, budget sub-20K, range over space/size, and thinking 11kW+ AC charging may be good to consider with the public only charging in my future. I should clear up that I've done public only in the past for about a 3 year stint.

Just to rule out I would not consider a Renault Zoe. With that in mind, currently Ive been looking at BMW i3 120Ah (42kWh) and Hyundai Kona 64kWh. The Kona at that budget are the older ones with only 7kW AC though. Any other cars I should consider?

Mad_Lad

It's hard to recommend a car for someone because we all have different preferences.

Few questions,

What range can you get at that price ? and are you happy to live with it ?

The BMW i3 is a great car but don't limit yourself to just the 120 Ah, I had the 96 Ah Rex and it was fantastic, it had 28 usable Kwh, fully EV drive, Engine only spun the generator.

The 96 Ah could charge at as little as 22 Kw or less at fast chargers when the battery was cold, not sure about the 120 Ah but probably the same, the Rex eliminated this issue. You could charge if you want and fill up with petrol if you didn't. You had all the benefits of EV with the backup of Generator with no reliance on public charging what-so-ever and a shame they eliminated the Rex in the 120 Ah.

BMW's idrive is vastly superior to probably 99.9% of all touchscreen setups out there, Ergonomics are very poor in many modern cars that eliminate buttons and knobs for basic functions for menus. It drives me mad in the Id3 so much sometimes that I want to rip the screen off the dash !

I can understand not liking the Zoe, I'm not a fan and not a big fan of Tesla either. Again, minimalist interiors don't work for me.

The Kona is decent , can you get one with the larger battery at a decent price and what condition will the battery be in ?

Go on carzone and use the filters, see what comes up and share some examples here.

Another thing I would never go back to is relying heavily on public charging.

And 11 Kw really does make a difference vs 7 Kw for example 44 Kwh in 4 hrs vs 28.

There is also 100% green bio diesel now called HBO100 and you could get a really good diesel car for this and have many more options available than EV that suit you better, if electrics could have a bio fuel generator or Hydrogen then there's be absolutely no need for an expensive charging network, at as it stands now in Ireland it's still crap and we still take the diesel for some trips. This shouldn't offend people here really considering the advantages of using 100% renewable fuel.

the_amazing_raisin

There's a few ID.3s going for around €20k, could argue them below that price

Probably enough range for 4-5 days of urban driving, charges at 120kW peak with the latest software and 11kW AC

Interior on the older ones is pretty basic, but if you can get a 1st Plus they have a good spec for the price

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937359#Comment_121937359

The id3 will only charge at a decent rate if plugging in at 10% or less, I can get 130 Kw at 7% vs 60 Kw from 20+ % with the 77 Kwh which is an absolute joke. maybe the smaller battery charging profile is different but I don't think so.

The id3 interior is pretty rubbish, there are rattles and vibrations especially in warmer weather and the ergonomics and infotainment are shocking, never again......although many cars are going screens and software now unfortunately and there are a lot of complaints online.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937419#Comment_121937419

The rattles are from your mad driving 😉

Yeah the interior was the main complaint with the ID cars. I never minded it on my ID.4, it was good enough for me and I never liked leather seats anyway

Never found the seats uncomfortable, I must compare it to my mum's ID.3 to see if they're the same seats

The Tour got the same battery as the ID.4 GTX which has a very high peak and then tapers off. I think the 58kWh has a slightly flatter curve, but you'll only ever get full power below 10% and with a warm battery

I will say that since @silver_sky had a Model 3, going to the clunky mess that the ID software is will be a bit of a challenge. The main problems have been fixed but it still handles like it was designed by a lunatic

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937486#Comment_121937486

The id3 is comfortable but the car is very , very heavy. Doesn't add to the fun factor.

Id4 is let down by infotainment also, in fact even the golf is the same now and many VW cars and cars in general. It's a diesease now and not sure if a cure is coming or common sense back to ergonomics.

There is no fix for screens except to bring back buttons and knobs, proper climate controls etc, leave the screen for media and sat nav and that would be great, if something isn't broken then they shouldn't try fix it.

yeah charging was a big disappointment and also having only 73 usable Kwh from 82, that's a lot of battery I paid for that I can't access, I understand the need for a buffer but seriously........

I really got to think about when my PCP is up, it's dropping in value like a stone and 3rd EV to be screwed on depreciation, I won't do it again and instead of paying the 18K balloon on a car I don't really like I could end up back in a cheap 2nd hand diesel burning HVO100 now that it's supported by major oil companies it's here to stay to get around the ICE ban which won't happen now. there are other eco fuels on the way such as Efuel, as inefficient as they are they are beloved liquid fuels and can be put in any existing petrol or diesel.

Buy hey, I got to stop paying so much for cars sometime, PCP = kick can down road, I knew it and here I am. Once out of PCP I'll be finally out of the trap, free of endless payments.

prawnsambo

Android Automotive (with Google Automotive Services) gets past the buttons and switches problem with built-in voice commands for vehicle specific functions. Not too many using it yet (Volvo, Polestar, Renault, Ford and GM), but it's very good in my experience.

silver_sky

Forgot to mention mileage and usage which is kinda important. I expect the majority to be urban/suburban with average/lower annual mileage. The somewhat regular longer trip I'd have would only be about 150km round on the motorway with good DC charging locations enroute. Outside of that some weekend trips and no commuting.

Intention with the range would be to use more like a petrol/diesel with a regular fill up. I'd not consider going back to ICE as I've been driving EV since 2018 aside from a few rentals/car share usage.

An i3 REX would be interesting but I think maintenance would be a concern.

I've not driven an ID3 but did have an ID4 for a weekend and found it tolerable. Door buttons were a mess though.

The Model 3 wasn't without issues so if the car has working auto wipers that'd be great. 🤣🫠

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937702#Comment_121937702

Yeah voice commands are fine, I use it in the id3 on car play but had to disable it because the boys were able to activate it and the id3 voice. But, there is simply no better way than to offer buttons and knobs, simple easy interiors and just use the screen for media and sat nav, I can still activate siri manually off the steering.

If it's not broke don't fix it.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939411#Comment_121939411

They said that about the square wheel. 🤣

With Android Automotive I don't need to hook up my phone. It's integrated into the car and I find it better than reaching for buttons or switches. The more advanced cars become, the less room there is for buttons and switches and the more complicated it will get. Voice commands are the solution to this.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939554#Comment_121939554

We don't need more advanced complicated cars, and not everyone wants to talk to their stupid cars ffs, it's not a proper way to control a car of you have people in it, loud kids, voice controls then are sh1t.

Dedicated climate controls and buttons for radio etc are far easier and quicker to access than poxy voice control.

Cars don't need so much tech, just make cheap cars that are basic for people who couldn't care less about all this tech yet are forced to pay for it, they can shove it up their arses.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939570#Comment_121939570

Lol. Ok.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939575#Comment_121939575

What's so funny ? there are a lot of people out there who don't want the tech who just want to get into a car and drive it and not have to mess with computer crap with menus and talking to their stupid car ffs. In fact I'd say the majority of people out there would rather pay less for less or add what they want. This is where manufacturers are failing, offering too much with a high price tag instead of offering people what they want and let them choose the tech if they want.

Buddy Bubs

I stay away from the screens as much as possible. And voice commands, I hate them.

Ergonomically the best car I ever had was a 2014 A6, it had the screen for all the info I need but I didn't have to reach over and touch it.

But the screen was retractable and I'd often put it away for a nice clean dashboard and no screen light

Amd the quality of the metal buttons were a joy, nice little clicking sounds.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939649#Comment_121939649

What's funny is you're ranting at the inexorable progress in technology for cars when pretty much everything we interact with has that same technological progress. Might as well try and hold back the tide.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940406#Comment_121940406

No, all this tech should be optional, I have to use laptop for work I have a phone don't need another big screen in my face in the car and as a result ergonomics drastically suffer, others love it, that's fine, but I wouldn't call it progress, add it to the options list when someone buys it along with whatever someone wants to add.

Just because something is tech and a screen and digital doesn't automatically mean it's better or that we should have it or be forced to have it.

AndyBoBandy

How about a €2k stretch on the budget, and get into a Luxo-Tesla?

Will no doubt have the CCS upgrade as well as at least 16kW (but most likely 22kW) AC charging

Link won't load but you'll find it on Done Deal

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941122#Comment_121941122

The problem is that we need all these other functions in a car like cruise control, air conditioning, different sets of lights, wipers, stereos, etc. etc.

All of these things if they use switchgear, add massive complexity to the wiring loom, never mind that switches are electro-mechanical devices with multiple points of failure. Manufacturers tried to simplify these in the past by making the switches digital rather than analogue, so there wouldn't be the requirement to have a wire for every function on a multifunction switch like a headlight switch. More potential points of failure though, since there's integration with daylight sensors and other parts of the car.

Centralising some of these functions on a screen (effectively a computer) reduces the wiring load and potential points of failure. That's the progress. It makes manufacturing easier and improves reliability.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941204#Comment_121941204

Want and need are completely different things, you still need wiring looms to the infotainment you might just reduce complexity a little bit by not having switch gear. Al this worked fine before screens and worked for years without issues mostly. You can have greater issues with firmware and screens than switches and knobs, electrics are a huge point and potential point of failure.

As I said, give options and from a safety point of view screens are dangerous in cars.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058343473/next-ev-but-some-complications

Any of the Eniros with the large screen (201+) should have 11kW ac charging too.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941264#Comment_121941264

I say it reduces the wiring load and you come back with "you still need wiring looms". For clarity, there's the square root of feck all wiring with those screens. Here's a pic of a Tesla M3 screen from the back after being taken out of a crashed one (I presume). Barely enough wires there to run a light cluster.

As for giving you a choice, lol no. Manufacturers aren't going to produce different interiors of their cars to suit people who like switches. If you want that, I've a 2006 Suzuki Jimny I could sell* you.

*Actually I wouldn't. I use that car a fair bit for various tasks. 🤣

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941748#Comment_121941748

The devices the screen controls need wires no ?

Screen addiction is serious lol. People just can't live without them.

silver_sky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941373#Comment_121941373

Seems to be going for a bit much, early to mid 20s and at that you'd prob just go Model 3 tbh. I'm seeing a few Kona with the larger screen coming into or near my price range so I may have a look into that. i3 is lovely but much lower range Vs Kona for similar money, and Kona charges faster (on paper).

I don't get the button/no-button hate. It's also pretty unrelated. Once the interface and button feel is good I'm fine. ID model steering wheel buttons fine for me, but door buttons useless. Climate did not make any sense to me.

Interestingly I had issues with the scroll wheels on the Tesla but that was a personal problem that most would not have. The side to side movement was causing me problems.

silver_sky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941144#Comment_121941144

Not really my bag, I'm much happier in smaller cars... despite being a tall guy.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941915#Comment_121941915

Yes. But instead of wires from the switch down to the fusebox and then on to the unit and back again, just from the unit to its ECU. I have an Audi A5 from 2012 that has a large fuse box each end of the dash, another in the boot and two more under the bonnet. You think that's simple?

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941915#Comment_121941915

wires still required, but not as many.

https://canbuskit.fortin.ca/what.php

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941915#Comment_121941915

They usually need 3 wires. Power and CAN-H CAN-L if they are grounded via chassis.