Madigan and her expenses

Sorry but who said I’m out here guns blazing?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936237#Comment_121936237

I am simply confused why it being mentioned is such a big deal. I don’t see it as one but you surely seem to.

If you read local papers specifically the court section often mentions cases in the district court, including traffic offences for insurance, tax, speeding etc. I’m not going to thrall the online papers to show you a link I really do not care enough if you believe me or not clo.

Bobtheman

She should be prosecuted for stealing if she falsified her expenses

We don't have the legal framework for this of course.

Seemingly a shop owner can crank up the legal system if Joe scoobie steals say 30 euro or something

A jury can be sworn in etc

Legal aid provided etc

But you can falsify expenses all you like

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939106#Comment_121939106

As I posted, you are aware that if you prosecute someone for this it won't be the TD but the staff member hired by the Irish government and is responsible for her expenses

Still want to prosecute someone?

Cluedo Monopoly

Nonsense. TDs have been caught out on expenses many many times. Reform of the system is always promised but it's all lies.

Dara Murphy was getting someone to fob him in at the Dail even though he was in Brussels. He was screwing the taxpayer for 4,300 a month.

They do sporadic audits too but I don't think SIPO have the powers to audit.

Remember these chancers.

Injury claim TDs Maria Bailey and Alan Farrell among politicians forced to refund Dail expenses | Irish Independent

TWO Fine Gael politicians who have been at the centre of controversy over personal injury claims have had to refund expenses payments after an audit found they were ineligible.

'Swing-gate' TD Maria Bailey and her party colleague Alan Farrell were among a small number of politicians that had to refund expenses payments.

Six TDs and Senators were found to have made ineligible claims of almost €10,000 in 2017 under the Public Representation Allowance available to Oireachtas members after the audit by accountancy firm Mazars.

Mr Farrell's invalid expenses came to €4,214.79.

Ms Bailey's were €1,977.11.

Both TDs have made headlines over personal injury claims.

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How people try to excuse this is absolutely and utterly beyond me. Where is the honour?

beeker1

Did she trouser the church collection when she had the audacity to stand in for an absent parish priest ! Breathtaking from a good friend who's pal fell off a "swing" on Harcourt Street, took a personal injury case only to be withdrawn as fraud ! An absolute cee u next Tuesday!

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939442#Comment_121939442

Farrell was worse and is still a TD.

Fine Gael TD's whiplash claim after vehicle 'rolled into his car at 5 mph' - Extra.ie

Fine Gael TD’s whiplash claim after vehicle ‘rolled into his car at 5 mph’

A Fine Gael TD filed a claim for damages and personal injuries after a van rolled into the back of his vehicle at ‘around 5 miles per hour’.

Despite the minor nature of the collision, Fine Gael TD Alan Farrell had more than €880 worth of repairs done to his car.

Mr Farrell later dropped the material damage claim after photos of the vehicle were shown in court. However, he was awarded €2,500 in compensation for injuries suffered in the collision.

Following the ‘crash’, the Dublin TD alleged that he suffered the effects of whiplash for up to 18 months and brought forward a personal injuries claim for up to €15,000.

After awarding Mr Farrell €2,500 for his injuries, Judge Coghlan said there was ‘little or no notation to back up a claim of significant whiplash’.

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He took advantage of a tourist. Classy.

beeker1

Fair play ! Forgot about that episode ! At least PEE FLYNN had the untouchable mouth on him to romance about his property portfolio on the late late ! Yet it took years to be exposed ! Like Big Macs Palace in cabra !

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939369#Comment_121939369

No one is responsible for her expenses but her good self. She signs the form, regardless of who manages the day to day details.

Sounds like she's following the good example of Ruairi Quinn, who claimed for business travel to/from his holiday home, because he was doing work in the back of the car iirc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/quinn-s-mileage-claims-defended-1.707241

The chances of any prosecution are slim to none.

BrianD3

Several posts mention that there is no evidence of any wrongdoing here. When it comes to financial matters, absence of evidence to show rightdoing is itself indicative of a problem.

If money appears in your bank account and Revenue audit you, will they accept your protests that the onus is on them to prove that you are not tax compliant rather than you having to prove that you are tax compliant? Best of luck with that.

Why should the taxpayer accept that Madigan's expenses claims are correct - because she says they are and that's it?

Especially considering that we have a long standing and cultural problem with forgetfulness, errors and general cute hoorism whenever there is public money and/or expenses claims involved. Not just elected representatives either, officials too. I've seen it with my own eyes as someone who worked in the public sector and could see other people's expense claims. Absurd some of the crap that well paid people tried to pull over small amounts like a 15 euro subsistence payment. Tight as a duck's arse. I've also heard people try to justify this as with "shur, the politicians are worse".

Many politicians, including Madigan, start their careers as county councillors. We know from RTE investigates the sort of junket and expense culture in councils. Councillors will go to the opening of an envelope if they're getting travel but even that's not enough for some - they'll try to claim that they were at the openings of two different envelopes in two different locations at the same time, Then if they are pulled up, sorry made a mistake.

OTOH if the ministerial travel system consists of a yearly allowance, that might partly explain why Madigan has a high claim with an empty diary as the yearly allowance would get divided by 12 and claimed every month. Is this the case? Has The Ditch fundamentally misunderstood the ministerial system?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940272#Comment_121940272

I never heard that one about Quinn.

Agree that each TD is ultimately responsible for their expense submissions. And they know exactly what they are doing. The excuses from the FG side are getting even more extravagant.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933093#Comment_121933093

I think the issue with people not being bothered by it,is raising a red flag over €200 worth of diesel over 12 months is about as high on the corruption scale as an amoeba on the floor of the mariana trench

If its to be the benchmark, we may allocate quarter of the national debt towards prison building and by then start agitating for tax reliefs for prison visits as half the people we know will be in one

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940658#Comment_121940658

Whatever about in the past, I'm fairly sure that Councillors don't get expenses for turning up at the opening of any envelope, unless it was at a formal Council meeting.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940272#Comment_121940272

Some random link to someone else isn't the "proof" you think it is.

Especially a link from over 12 years ago

You would have been better with the two lads from Kerry who managed to submit the exact same mileage for a year, copy & paste job from staff it would seem

bobbysands81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939369#Comment_121939369

Completely wrong.

The TD is the sole person responsible for ensuring his/her expenses are correct. Any admin person will be working on their behalf and will not be at all liable.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943834#Comment_121943834

Ahh Bobby, come back to me with some proof of wrong doing before posting about "liable"

After all "The Ditch" as the most corrupt and biased media source in Ireland ain't really proof now is it?

bobbysands81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943849#Comment_121943849

I’m not talking about any specific incident. I’m stating that a TD is solely responsible for ensuring the accuracy of any expenses claim he or she makes. An admin person may fill out the form on their behalf… but the TD has to verify and approve the claim.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943814#Comment_121943814

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm pointing out that this case is remarkably similar to a previous case, in relation to mileage over the holiday month of August.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940753#Comment_121940753

Wha?

Bobtheman

In the greater scheme of things it's not a huge amount of money.

But she should clarify it as soon as possible.

The expences regime needs to be tightened.

Lawmakers must be whiter than white.

Cluedo Monopoly

The problem as always is the lack of reform. Mahon and other tribunals/reports called for widespread reform.

FG promised significant reform since 2011. The fish rots from the top and the lack of reform is costing us massively.

Remember this RTE Investigates. There was "shock" in the government benches and more false promises but reform never comes.

Council chamber secrets: Misconduct, falsehoods & waste (rte.ie)

The Mahon Report recommended various changes to legislation concerning local authorities, including the tightening up of rules about conflicts of interests, enhanced reporting requirements for councillors and public officials, and increased powers of investigation for the Standards of Public Office Commission.

In 2015, the prospect of ethics law reform was on the political agenda when a proposed piece of legislation, the Public Sector Standards Bill, was presented to the Dáil.

Under this legislation, a new Office of Public Sector Standards Commissioner was proposed, in addition to various other reforms that had been initially recommended in the Mahon Tribunal.

The commissioner would have the power to initiate investigations, even in the absence of a complaint. (Currently, the Standards in Public Office Commission can only initiate inquiries upon receiving a complaint.) It would also have powers to impose fines.

"For the first time, a uniform framework of ethical regulations will apply at national and local level in Ireland," said Brendan Howlin, the then-Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, in a Dáil debate in January 2016.

"There will now be a consistency of approach to ethical obligations across the public sector and, in a new departure, overarching integrity principles for public officials will be enshrined in legislation."

Of course, all of this sounded promising. But progress on the legislation later ground to a halt.

In August 2017, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe wrote to the Oireachtas Finance Committee to warn that it was "essential that the Committee now quickly moves" to schedule the completion of thecommittee stage of the proposed legislation.

The delays continued, and once the 2020 General Election was called, the bill died.

With the Public Sector Standards Bill now a distant memory, the Government's latest initiative is a "review" of ethics legislation. In November 2021, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Michael McGrath, told the Dáil that this review had begun, describing it as "a very significant body of work".

"We still have outstanding recommendations from tribunals of inquiry that reported several years ago, and I am determined to make progress in that area," said Mr McGrath.

Given the pace of reform, it doesn't appear that anything meaningful will happen anytime soon.

As John Devitt of Transparency International Ireland put it, "Turkeys don't vote for Christmas."

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FF and FG will never ever bring in reform. They simply do not want to. FG promised it in New Politics 13 years ago. It will never happen while they are in power.