"Set it and Forget it" Solar Turned into a Challenge - Seeking Guidance

portach king

Hey everyone,

Jumped into the world of solar panels last year, and I now I realise I might have been a little too eager and didn't do my full research upfront. I was hoping for a smooth "set it and forget it" installation, but the last year has been full of headaches and has me needing some advice from the experts!

Here's the situation:

• Initially agreed on a system with an NC6 qualifying inverter in February 2023.
• The panels were installed in February, but no inverter or battery.
• Many missed dates, excuses and installation delays, pushed things back through spring, and into summer.
• The inverter and battery were finally put in place and connected in the first week of June.
• Unbeknownst to me, the deadline for NC6 qualification was May 31st, 2023 (only found out later from ESB networks).
• The installation company, who I won't name and shame, never mentioned the deadline or the potential need for an NC7 application with an extra fee.
• They then made a balls of the NC7 application, something I only found out after going back and forth with the ESB.
• Now, they're proposing to swap the 6kw inverter for a 5kw inverter to qualify for NC6 and eliminate the fee. Essentially, it's the same inverter, but the 5kw [Solis S5-EH1P(3-6)K-L] model instead of the 6kw.
• I'm concerned about potential differences I would have with a smaller inverter.

Questions for the Solar Savvy:

• Any advice on navigating this situation? Is the inverter swap a fair resolution considering everything?
• How much of a difference might a 5kw inverter make compared to a 6kw inverter in terms of production?
• Any insights or similar experiences with inverter changes and NC applications?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer! Learning a lot as I go, and this board seems like a great resource for eejits like me.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058340662/set-it-and-forget-it-solar-turned-into-a-challenge-seeking-guidance

Oh dear, sounds like a mess. I do hope that you entered into a contract which stipulated as to how the end product was to function - if you do, then at least you have some comeback on those silly delays.

In terms of your questions, what Wp (watt power) of solar panels is installed in total? You may find that there is little loss between a 6kW and 5kW inverter if the system wasn't initially massively over-sized.

portach king

Thanks for the help and the sympathy (it's massively appreciated).

It's a 8kw (20 panels x 400) installation on the roof. I also have a 5kw battery.

graememk

The most straight forward option is just to have a 5kW inverter. You may lose a bit of export if on the very good days, but It would never pay for the NC7.

Very hard to actually calculate that loss, but It will only be a little bit of clipping in the middle of the day.

This will only happen on the "perfect days" in may/june

This is a 6kW inverter, on 8.6kWp of panels, Low slope, NE/SW.

Start of may, you can see clipping at 6kW, yours will be at 5. That was a 52kWh day. Possibly lose 3-4? kWh

Next 3 days, Yes some spikes to 6kW but very little. All other times you'll not notice the smaller inverter.

portach king

That's a great reply!

Thanks for explaining it so simply.

The panels are all SW facing, so that'll make a another difference, but again, not worthy of the NC7 I'd imagine.

Jonathan

Their mess up. Keep the 6kW inverter and let them pay the fee for the NC7 application.

portach king

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121889457#Comment_121889457

Love the idea, but I already approached them with that and they came back with the replacement proposal.

Jonathan

Are they giving you a refund or something else in lieu? At the moment you are getting an inferior product to what you agreed.

portach king

This is the exact reason I want to gather opinions. They've made no offers towards any refund yet. That'll certainly be a subject to deal with before any change takes place, and then I'll be washing my hands of them for good.

idc

Did they delay applying for NC6 until after the deadline had pasted and only when about to do inverter install ? That itself is their fault and should give you some form of compensation/reduction in price?

If they had submitted it first before installing anything you would of been able to get the 6kW inverter.

portach king

They failed to get the inverter installed before the deadline (4 months after they put in the panels, inverter was installed on June 6th '23) and then failed to even do the NC6 form until I followed up with them about it later. At that stage they then tried to get me to sign off on an NC7 form without informing me of the price I'd have to pay the ESB. This company has been an absolute shambles. I will be delighted to see the other side of them once this is dealt with.

SD_DRACULA

Or since they seem to be somewhat cowboys anyway, get them to put the 5kw in, get your nc6 sorted, have them swap the 6kw after but this conversation never happened of course

portach king

Hahaha!

Nope! I'll be washing my hands off them after this, but I love the cowboy logic 🤠

unkel

For an easy life, just accept the 5kW inverter. You will get barely get any clipping on your SW string. But ask them what else they can do for you, maybe for the installer to come out free of charge for a 1 hour site vist after year 1 and year 2 to inspect the system and see if everything's still working or something like that?

If your're a bit of a fighter, insist they pay for the NC7 as it's their fault. This will give you a good opening for expanding your system later and be able to export (and get paid for) more than the 25A anyone with an NC6 is limited to

SD_DRACULA

Yeah or what unkel said, would be ideal to get them to pay for it, their mistake, ignorance but still a mistake on their part.

If you plan to expand in the future you'd be set with an nc7 and can export as much as you want.

10-10-20

All pretty good advice from the lads here. The one thing that I will add is that you need to make sure that you get the admin/root password for the inverter off the installers, or have them set it to a default password - otherwise you will be seeing them again...!

graememk

It's a solis, so it should be 0010

steamdave

If all your efforts come to nought, then you could always consult the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission. Amazing what a letter or a phone call from them to the miscreants will do!

Make sure you know in advance what you want to happen: Get what you paid for or an equivalent substitute. Perhaps keeping the present inverter and get them to pay for the NC7 as suggested.

https://www.ccpc.ie/

Dave

slave1

I don't think you should accept the 5kW hybrid or anything to do with them coming back again, it's either 5kW with money your way (€1k) or they pay for NC7.

Realistically, there is nothing they can do with the 6kW hybrid as it's NC7 territory now and no one will want that expense/hassle plus it's now used so second hand value.

Polite but firm, 5kW swap with €1k to you or they cover NC7, maybe they will meet you halfway?

portach king

Hey guys.

Thanks so much for all the advice and insights. I've been mulling over my options over the weekend.

From looking into it, the price difference is looking more like €100-€200 between the 5kW and the 6kW. I can't see how I can swing it to get them to pay anything close to the NC7 application charge, so I'm leaning now towards going for easy choice and just ask for the price difference and have the swap take place.

Here's a source I found with only €30 between the two.

5kW: €1,318.17 Tax included

6kW: €1,347.46 Tax included

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908831#Comment_121908831

The price difference is not the issue that you should argue. It's the lesser revenue the panels will make for you over the 10-15 years life of the inverter. In your case that doesn't really apply, but it's a good argument in a negotiation where the other party were at fault 😂

John mac

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909869#Comment_121909869

exactly . as Graememk showed above 3-4kWh ish per day at peek at say # 30 days , x 15 years ,

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910265#Comment_121910265

I wouldn't even say I would barely 10 a year not even 30.

Once July passes days are hotter and shorter.

portach king

So, an update:

⏺️ I contacted the company and made a request for a refund for the price difference between the originally agreed-upon 6kw inverter and the proposed 5kw model (which they offered as an alternative).

⏺️ I requested a discussion regarding fair compensation for the potential decrease in revenue due to the smaller inverter.

⏺️ I also opened the door to exploring the possibility of that they would cover the NC7 application fee to allow for the originally planned 6kw inverter.

It's been two weeks since that email. I heard nothing back. I sent another one asking for a reply at the end of that week. Again, nothing. I was away on holliers last week, so I'm back at this again today.



Very unsatisfying altogether. I spoke to the CCPC today and while they couldn't take a formal complaint, they advised me to seek legal advice. To be honest, this is the last avenue I want to pursue, but it's all feeling very hopeless at the moment.

slave1

I so wish this was an isolated case but I'm hearing a lot of empty promises from installers and "they'll be back" to fix what went wrong but they just don't give a rats ass once they get their money, you'll never see them again and they don't need to build a reputation as the demand for PV is massive

portach king

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965551#Comment_121965551

Yep. They seem to have no conscious about getting away with it. I'll keep pressing them, though I know I'll end up out of pocket either way. If nothing else, it's been a learning experience for me.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965179#Comment_121965179

No need for legal advice. Send another email that if the case isn't resolved by the end of the week, you will start legal action in the small claims court. Then if you don't hear back, start the action. It will take a while before the case is approved, you don't have to pay yet. When the case is approved, don't pay, just send the company an email showing this. In many cases the company will pay up when they see that. If not, proceed with the SCC, pay the €25, wait for your day in court and get rewarded your losses

portach king

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965623#Comment_121965623

That is a solid plan. Thanks @unkel